Quick reminder of why tank items suck.

The thigh guy·Jul 23, 2019·25 votes·10,099 views

You have to account for armor being reduced by 24% and then by a further 35% every game.

You also have to account for mr being reduced by 32+40% every game.

After doing that. This is what a tank item looks like. In raw stats.

Deadman’s plate 29.64 armor 425 health 2900 gold spent 1705 gold in stats.

Spirit visage 13.8 magic resistance 450 hp 100% base health 10% cdr 2800 gold spent 1982 gold in stats

These aren’t “oh, the enemy went out of their way to build these items to deal with you.” No. These items are in EVERY game regardless of whether or not a tank is in the game.

A mage is ALWAYS going to build a void staff. Doesn’t matter if there is no tank in the game.

There is ALWAYS going to be a black cleaver in the game.

49 Comments

MalignMetalJul 23, 201922 votes

Inb4 we can't buff tanks cause im scared of a Tank meta that Mathematically can't exist anymore.

mack9112Jul 23, 201912 votes

{quoted}

Inb4 we can't buff tanks cause im scared of a Tank meta that Mathematically can't exist anymore.

But half the people on this board say we are in a tank meta currently and the other half say we are in a damage meta XD

Jng AccountJul 23, 20191 votes

Aren't we neck deep in sustain meta? Kleds buff is proof, runes/items/kits, tons of heals. Dmg meta, kinda, but I don't think that tank meta exist in current state, but tanks are getting better(unfortunately).

Yets4240Jul 23, 201917 votes

Notice that the sustain is from runes, and based upon damage dealt. We are in such a hyper damage META that healing for a low percentage of the damage you deal is more than enough sustain for those less aware of the game state to think its a sustain META.

RagnaveilJul 23, 20193 votes

Exactly.

mack9112Jul 23, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jng Account,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Eo7qyyl,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-23T17:56:00.904+0000)

Aren't we neck deep in sustain meta? Kleds buff is proof, runes/items/kits, tons of heals. Dmg meta, kinda, but I don't think that tank meta exist in current state, but tanks are getting better(unfortunately).

In my opinion yes we are in sustain meta

Devilreaper XIIIJul 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

But half the people on this board say we are in a tank meta currently and the other half say we are in a damage meta XD

both are true, if you just think about it, they damage buffed tanks, so anyone can solo play tanks on a lane, ignoring the fact that these tank champions absorb more damage than the average champion, whilst causing the same or even more damage. the game has become stomp or be stomped for years now :/ and tanks have the advantage.

Pierce The VealJul 23, 20194 votes

Why can it mathematically not exist? If we double all the armor and mr on tank items we’d easily have a tank meta (not suggesting that is a good idea lol).

MalignMetalJul 23, 20196 votes

Oversaturation of True damage, effective penetration items that are more effective the more resistances you have.

RagnaveilJul 23, 20194 votes

and the change to % pen that adds base stats. That alone is enough.

Pierce The VealJul 24, 20191 votes

I mean we used to have that exact same thing but better, stronger, and cheaper for way longer. I distinctly remember that tanks had been good against it before. The issue is there’s simply too little armor on items. In season 2 I remember that multiple tank items had 100 armor on them. Nowadays few have much oomph at all.

HàrrowRJul 24, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Eo7qyyl,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-24T08:31:41.412+0000)

I mean we used to have that exact same thing but better, stronger, and cheaper for way longer. I distinctly remember that tanks had been good against it before. The issue is there’s simply too little armor on items. In season 2 I remember that multiple tank items had 100 armor on them. Nowadays few have much oomph at all.

Yeah and BT used to give give 100 damage in season 2 and IE used to give 85 and 250% crit, there was flat arpen and now you have lethality, bc used to have more damage and arpen and less health etc. things changed for everyone not just the tank items

Pierce The VealJul 25, 20191 votes

The only flat armor pen for the longest time was brutalizer, after which they released the upgrade, youmuu’s, which gave armor pen, crit, AD, and its active gave attack speed. It was considered a meh item because the flat pen was useless against tanks that had hundreds of armor, and it didn’t even really give enough armor pen to overcome armor runes. Ah yes, that reminds me. Armor and mr per level runes. Felt nice getting 24 armor and mr from runes.

Way before that BT used to give 125 AD. Coincidentally, warmogs used to give 1400 hp while having immense health regen. An item called leviathan used to be like current Mejai’s, giving lots of health, but more importantly at max stacks it used to give 15% damage reduction.

When ADC items actually costed gold proportionate to the power they gave, tanks got to do their thing. Sure, they got outscaled by ADCs... 40 minutes into the game instead of at champ select like it is now.

HàrrowRJul 25, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Eo7qyyl,comment-id=0000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-25T15:09:01.510+0000)

The only flat armor pen for the longest time was brutalizer, after which they released the upgrade, youmuu’s, which gave armor pen, crit, AD, and its active gave attack speed. It was considered a meh item because the flat pen was useless against tanks that had hundreds of armor, and it didn’t even really give enough armor pen to overcome armor runes. Ah yes, that reminds me. Armor and mr per level runes. Felt nice getting 24 armor and mr from runes.

Way before that BT used to give 125 AD. Coincidentally, warmogs used to give 1400 hp while having immense health regen. An item called leviathan used to be like current Mejai’s, giving lots of health, but more importantly at max stacks it used to give 15% damage reduction.

When ADC items actually costed gold proportionate to the power they gave, tanks got to do their thing. Sure, they got outscaled by ADCs... 40 minutes into the game instead of at champ select like it is now.

Honestly i'm not sure what do you and the rest of the boards want tanks to be, i literally wanted to see for myself so i played a few games of cho gath and sion, needless to say that with cho i had a couple of games where i had 8k+ hp and was nigh unkillable unless 5 people were on me, also that game i had the most damage done in my team and tanked 112k damage, with sion i was setting up kills for my team and just being annoying, which wasn't all that fun. I can still remember the tank meta and how maokai was literally able to 1v5, that's not fun for anyone that isn't playing the tank..

Pierce The VealJul 26, 20191 votes

Match history has concluded that that was a lie.

Plus, odds are that you are high ranking/a good player and you went into normals vs low ranking people to test it out.

It’s not tank meta that I personally want. I personally just hate juggernauts and ADC’s and dislike how ridiculously powerful the latter have become. They’re supposed to be late game carries, not champions that win in lane, in mid game, AND late. And don’t give me that “but x adc is bad in laning phase ~~against stronger adcs~~.”

HàrrowRJul 26, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Eo7qyyl,comment-id=000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-26T12:22:33.464+0000)

Match history has concluded that that was a lie.

Plus, odds are that you are high ranking/a good player and you went into normals vs low ranking people to test it out.

It’s not tank meta that I personally want. I personally just hate juggernauts and ADC’s and dislike how ridiculously powerful the latter have become. They’re supposed to be late game carries, not champions that win in lane, in mid game, AND late. And don’t give me that “but x adc is bad in laning phase ~~against stronger adcs~~.”

I am not a loser that lies on a forum about a damn video game https://gyazo.com/76b7efca4d24d311fa53147f4b4887df https://gyazo.com/e6e5f2e6854ad3bcc5dde43d769fd22b https://gyazo.com/0079356ff44bfccdf0fd8757cf50e3cd

And a game before that

https://gyazo.com/b77d5699b41cbf3b3e8ff0aa56d205d1 https://gyazo.com/04970cd35fd77bd15848480afdbd55e2 https://gyazo.com/e4ce7b60ea895251cae6a29474460c22

Im not even a top main let alone a tank main, didn't play cho gath in 5 years probably, also played maokai and poppy, for me personally the gameplay is not really that interesting but the utility and the cc is certainly valuable and for champions building full tank they do a fair amount of damage.

Harrowr is my main one EUNE i use this acc only on the boards since the other one is banned

Pierce The VealJul 24, 20191 votes

While that is true and fair, and major damage dealers having significant mixed damage making it impossible to counter build, that still doesn’t make it mathematically impossible to have a tank meta.

Let’s take my prior example. If we double the armor on token armor items, a champion with a base armor of 80 and a total armor of 300 would now have 520 armor. Let’s assume we’re facing off against someone who has black cleaver, lord dominick’s, and all three lethality items. That is a 24% reduction in armor followed by a 35% penetration followed by a flat 57 penetration. 520x0.76x0.65-57=200 armor. A full penetration build will still have their damage reduced by 66%, meaning that it isn’t “mathematically impossible” for a tank meta to exist if armor and mr amounts simply get buffed.

MalignMetalJul 24, 20191 votes

You forget armour shred from multiple sources stacks, throw a garen spin in there. And btw 66% reduction is still garbage and you would still die to an ADC late game from sustained damage, you know, how it is supposed to be.

The only problem with doubling armour on items is you get Assassin tanks all over again.

Btw You didnt add in the easily accessible true damage

Pierce The VealJul 25, 20191 votes

Hmm, where’s the easily accessible true damage. Do you mean conqueror, which now converts 8% of your damage to true damage? Congrats, that went from 66% reduction to 58% reduction in exchange for losing something like press the attack, lethal tempo, or some other more optimal keystone.

As for stacking armor shred, how many champs even have armor shred? Not to mention armor shred isn’t additive, but multiplicative, so while you are correct, it would still not make much difference. Not to mention this is a tank’s damage reduction only taking into account the armor. I’m assuming he didn’t get a ninja tabi which further reduces damage by 12%. I’m assuming he didn’t get any item with any damage reduction capabilities besides just armor. I’m assuming he didn’t take any runes to aid in his survival.

That same armor pen build against a 300 armor tank would drop the tank’s effective armor to 91.

But going back to what you said. “Tank assassins” huh. That’s easily solved by you know, not giving the stats to damage dealing tank items? Or making the damage dealing tank items scale with actual defense and not just have an easily abusable large, flat, base damage?

~~oh and also nerf vayne and kai’sa for the love of all that is good~~

Devilreaper XIIIJul 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Inb4 we can't buff tanks cause im scared of a Tank meta that Mathematically can't exist anymore.

tank meta has and still exists for years now, the setup on the rift was : top fighter mid mage bot adc and tank

but than irrational players started whining about not being able to solo a lane with an tank, so a leftwing irrational riot games situated in california favored snowflakes, and turned tanks into bulky cannons, they can absorb more damage and cause as much damage as a glass cannon...... tanks should get a nerf to become tanks again, and just be supports on bot lane for strategy sake, there is litterally no downside in picking a tank.

FSRERJul 24, 20191 votes

Can we at least get a magic resist meta? League has never had that meanwhile mages are always in meta no matter what because item 3157 exsists

Pierce The VealJul 23, 20198 votes

I mean, people don’t even build black cleaver and last whisper anymore for the most part because they’re such garbage items.

These three items are not always going to be in every game. In fact, nowadays they’re not that common. Like just as an example, I went through imaqptie’a match history on op.gg. I see that rek’sai, kayn, and qiyana always build item 3071 to some extent. But having played all but Qiyana, I know that the reason is largely because they need health to survive, AD for damage, and cdr really badly. As it stands, AD champions are forced into 4 possible 20% cdr items. Triforce (too expensive and requires autos for speed boost), black cleaver, spear of shojin (less tanky than cleaver), and essence reaver (only really adcs and a couple melees use this well). As for item 3035 , I see it built once on a rengar. There are 0 item 3135 in match history.

And the reason for this is simple. Flat pen is almost always better and there’s no need to itemize into last whisper or black cleaver or void staff unless they’re significantly tanky or you rely on your base damages a lot.

The real shit is the triple lethality item build, which is better than lord dominick’s until around 171 total armor. Or the AP item + morello’s + sorc boots build. Tanks are often just not building enough resists that getting these special pen items is worth it, especially considering all of the best tank items give bonuses that cannot be reduced lest you have true damage. Flat pen has been the issue for years now.

Nonetheless, I do find it funny that the OP just pretends that every tank item is going to be reduced similarly to his calculations, while ignoring the existence of innate armor and mr.

There are a few reasons tanks are lackluster. Firstly, they need to split their build into defending against two damage types while damage dealers essentially just have every item amp their overall build. Secondly, tons of mixed and true damage. It’s incredibly hard to itemize defensive items. Third, diminishing returns on stacking defensive items as opposed to linear increasing returns for AP champions and quadratic returns for ADC’s. Fourth, lack of influence compared to units with more damage with similar cc; if you can just stay safe and dish out damage and cc from afar, why ever pick a champion that does no damage (relatively)? And then of course at the end of the day you do build tank, the penetration items exist as an ultimatum to prevent you from building or playing a true tank.

And then since there is aftershock now as well, there’s less reason than ever to pick a tank as opposed to a squishy with aftershock. And on that topic, some of the best tank item passives and actives are on damage items. Sterak’s, zhonya’s, banshee’s, phantom dancer, maw of malmortius, guardian angel, death’s dance.

And then there are the three adcs of today: vayne, kai’sa, and ezreal. The former two melt tanks, the latter simply can poke them down from a while away without having to interact with them at all.

DUDE BROJul 23, 20198 votes

Black cleaver gives AD, Health, Cooldown, and Movementspeed. Literally the only 4 stats every bruiser cares about with nothing wasted. So... why does it also give armor shred for free?

Fixes:

Black cleaver's has too many stats. It's armor shred needs to move to a different item, same as how last whisper only does armor pen and nothing else.
% resistance pen items need to work on bonus resistances only, this way you ONLY build them when tanks are in game.
Void staff AP needs to be lowered to 60. It gives way too much AP for how powerful it's passive is. Similar to Last Whisper, it's raw damage should be low to compensate for how much additional damage it gives through penetration.

I think Last whisper is good as armor is tough to deal with on ADC's, however bruisers/assassins and mages shouldn't just melt anyone in seconds as if they had no resistances at all.

MalignMetalJul 24, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=DUDE BRO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Eo7qyyl,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-07-23T20:09:09.382+0000)

Void staff AP needs to be lowered to 60. It gives way too much AP for how powerful it's passive is. Similar to Last Whisper, it's raw damage should be low to compensate for how much additional damage it gives through penetration.

When all mages can cast the same spell 2-3 times in a second i would agree with you. Until then your wrong.

Sire HippingtonJul 23, 20196 votes

That's not the full reason. Half of the time, people don't go %pen anymore, and Lw+Void did exist in the past aswell, yet def stats felt meaningfull.

Also, you can't add flatpen to that calculation, if you wouldn't have the MR from the item, the flat pen would reduce base MR instead. 50 base mr -32 pen = 18 remaining 50 + 55 mr -32 pen = 73 remaining, which is 18+55 so the effective increase in MR from the item stays the same.

Anyway. the main issue is that the gold values compared to off items is just a bit low, damage values scale way to hard and way to many champs/items/runes use anti tank mechanics. There are so many champs with either %pen/shred, truedamage or %hp damage, and if not there is always conqueror, botrk, liandries...

3 items Irelia lvl 11(important for steraks gold value)with item 3078 item 3053 item 3748 sits on 3622.5+2915+2900 = 9437.5g worth of stats. On top of that we have the Rage effect and a very powerfull spellblade from trinity, the singletarget on-hit, aoe-on-hit and the massive active from hydra aswell as The huge shield+tenacity from Steraks. Also, steraks will be worth another 560g at lvl 18 thx to higher base ad, increaseing total gold value to 9997.5g

Now a Maokai with 3 items item 3068 item 3083 item 3065 has 2333+3000+2937 = 8270g with sunfire aura, 30% increased healing and the warmongs out of combat regen, which all together imo is not even close to the passive/active from even just trinity+hydra which together add easily 600+ burst damage with dps potential on top. you'd need 15sec with sunfire to reach that damage. Just that a champ like irelia will easily get 5+ more trinity procs duering that time for 1k+ damage total just from the trinity procs.

Sure the tank items are cheaper, but at full built that doesn't matter and they just don't have any more expensive options, and they usually have less gold cause they have a harder time farming up past the early lane when most others outscale them 1v1 and their waveclear needs some time. They also rarly get bonus gold from solokills compared to more damage focused champs and usually have a harder time getting plateings in the early, so usually they would still reach their 3 item spike at a similar time as bruisers hit theirs.

And for the sake of completion: Qiyana with item 3147 item 3142 item 3071 = 2664+2597+3000 = 8261 Sivir with item 3508 item 3031 item 3094 = 3983+3800+1948 = 9731 Syndra with item 3285 item 3165 item 3089 =3331+2789+3654 = 9774(with the pen from morello and the extra 10% cdr on ludens)

So only assasins have similar low gold valeus(and costs) to tanks, but with ALL the gold straight focused on AD, pen and CDR, all prime stats for them, while tanks split some gold between mr and armor makeing their effective gold value vs someone like riven even lower as she doesn't care about any of the mr. Also, quite some of the tanks gold value goes into hp/5, which is a comparable weak stat outside of laneing phase. In standoffs it's void because warmongs passive already does that job, and in direct fights it's not a very usefull stat with how short they usually are and how hp/5 is tuned.

Another huge issue is how much magic dps is in the game. Back when defense felt like something, magic damage was rarly dealt as dps but usually as burst with decent downtime, which ment most magic DDs avoided hitting tanks and saved their CDs to burst a squishy if they get the opportunity. As a result, 1 mr item usually was enough paired with a good hp pool and good hp/5, allowing to focus more on armor. Now Mages haf so little CDs, half of them(the meta ones anyway) are dps based like cassio, ryze, azir and in a way corki, with adc like kaisa with lots of magic dps that even has a big %hp component, but unlike kogmaw that's not her niche and big strength but just part of her burst + mobillity + poke + dps do it all kit, there is just so much magic damage vs tanks aswell that they usually only can decide wether they want to die from magic damage or from physical damage.

The thigh guyJul 24, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Eo7qyyl,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-07-23T22:53:22.743+0000)

That's not the full reason. Half of the time, people don't go %pen anymore, and Lw+Void did exist in the past aswell, yet def stats felt meaningfull.

Also, you can't add flatpen to that calculation, if you wouldn't have the MR from the item, the flat pen would reduce base MR instead. 50 base mr -32 pen = 18 remaining 50 + 55 mr -32 pen = 73 remaining, which is 18+55 so the effective increase in MR from the item stays the same.

Anyway. the main issue is that the gold values compared to off items is just a bit low, damage values scale way to hard and way to many champs/items/runes use anti tank mechanics. There are so many champs with either %pen/shred, truedamage or %hp damage, and if not there is always conqueror, botrk, liandries...

3 items lvl 11(important for steraks gold value)with sits on 3622.5+2915+2900 = 9437.5g worth of stats. On top of that we have the Rage effect and a very powerfull spellblade from trinity, the singletarget on-hit, aoe-on-hit and the massive active from hydra aswell as The huge shield+tenacity from Steraks. Also, steraks will be worth another 560g at lvl 18 thx to higher base ad, increaseing total gold value to 9997.5g

Now a with 3 items has 2333+3000+2937 = 8270g with sunfire aura, 30% increased healing and the warmongs out of combat regen, which all together imo is not even close to the passive/active from even just trinity+hydra which together add easily 600+ burst damage with dps potential on top. you'd need 15sec with sunfire to reach that damage. Just that a champ like irelia will easily get 5+ more trinity procs duering that time for 1k+ damage total just from the trinity procs.

Sure the tank items are cheaper, but at full built that doesn't matter and they just don't have any more expensive options, and they usually have less gold cause they have a harder time farming up past the early lane when most others outscale them 1v1 and their waveclear needs some time. They also rarly get bonus gold from solokills compared to more damage focused champs and usually have a harder time getting plateings in the early, so usually they would still reach their 3 item spike at a similar time as bruisers hit theirs.

And for the sake of completion: with = 2664+2597+3000 = 8261 with = 3983+3800+1948 = 9731 with =3331+2789+3654 = 9774(with the pen from morello and the extra 10% cdr on ludens)

So only assasins have similar low gold valeus(and costs) to tanks, but with ALL the gold straight focused on AD, pen and CDR, all prime stats for them, while tanks split some gold between mr and armor makeing their effective gold value vs someone like riven even lower as she doesn't care about any of the mr. Also, quite some of the tanks gold value goes into hp/5, which is a comparable weak stat outside of laneing phase. In standoffs it's void because warmongs passive already does that job, and in direct fights it's not a very usefull stat with how short they usually are and how hp/5 is tuned.

Another huge issue is how much magic dps is in the game. Back when defense felt like something, magic damage was rarly dealt as dps but usually as burst with decent downtime, which ment most magic DDs avoided hitting tanks and saved their CDs to burst a squishy if they get the opportunity. As a result, 1 mr item usually was enough paired with a good hp pool and good hp/5, allowing to focus more on armor. Now Mages haf so little CDs, half of them(the meta ones anyway) are dps based like cassio, ryze, azir and in a way corki, with adc like kaisa with lots of magic dps that even has a big %hp component, but unlike kogmaw that's not her niche and big strength but just part of her burst + mobillity + poke + dps do it all kit, there is just so much magic damage vs tanks aswell that they usually only can decide wether they want to die from magic damage or from physical damage.

Yes. Lw and void did exist before. But they were bonus pen. Not total pen. Which is actually a HUGE difference.

Pierce The VealJul 24, 20192 votes

Lol. Last whisper was bonus pen from the end of season 5 to season 8. Since the inception of league of legends it was otherwise always total pen. Void never was bonus pen, on the other hand. It was always total pen.

It’s not as huge of a difference as you make it out to be. Many tanks were good and very strong while these two items were total pen. The difference is there is simply less armor and mr in a tank build now than there used to be.

Pierce The VealJul 24, 20191 votes

Yeah I did mention the split between magic and physical.

This is indeed a big issue. What’s really funny is the development of this problem.

If you went as far back as season 2 and 3, what you would find is that dealing mixed damage was considered a weakness and a liability because you couldn’t itemize to make your damage go through. Nowadays, mixed damage is a strength. Crazy how the times change eh?

Well here’s what happened. Riot (wow muscle memory made me type Rito three times before I could type “Riot”) nerfed regen and nerfed resists because they did not like regen + resists as a tactic for tanks to take. We used to have multiple 100 armor items and our highest mr item was force of nature with a whopping 90 armor which also regenned 1.5% of max hp per second. But because that made tanks hard to deal with for AP mages, they nerfed magic resist across the board, making the highest mr items have like 50 or 60 mr (would you believe they had nerfed it even lower than that and had to buff them up to that level?). Now, with magic dps easily accessible for both auto attacking carries and for mages, there’s just no real way to deal with it except for building a item 3194 and crossing your fingers. As for AD? Well there’s no 30% premitigation damage return thornmail to threaten them. There are no good high armor items and the only decent tanking item is item 3143 because it reduces crit damage by an unanswerable 20% while also slowing attack speed. item 3075 being really meh with its only real purpose to apply grievous wounds to a class that already lacks much risks. The second best anti AD tank item is... item 3047 because it reduces auto damage by an unanswerable 12%.

In short, there’s just less armor and mr available to build while there’s more mixed damage than ever.

CµpcakkeJul 23, 20195 votes

Or to sum it all up.

https://opgg-static.akamaized.net/images/lol/perk/8010.png https://opgg-static.akamaized.net/images/lol/perk/8010.png https://opgg-static.akamaized.net/images/lol/perk/8010.png https://opgg-static.akamaized.net/images/lol/perk/8010.png https://opgg-static.akamaized.net/images/lol/perk/8010.png

StormBladeMasterJul 23, 20194 votes

Here the problem :

item 3071 item 3135 item 3151 item 3124 item 3142 item 3147 item 3814 item 3033 item 3036 item 3020 item 3165

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/5/5b/Precision_Fleet_Footwork_Domination.png/revision/latest?cb=20180110212851

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/leagueoflegends/images/a/a7/Domination_splash_art.png/revision/latest?cb=20180110214421

https://img.rankedboost.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Resolve.jpg

RagnaveilJul 23, 20193 votes

Think you forgot something item 3165

Yets4240Jul 24, 20193 votes

And item 3020

StormBladeMasterJul 24, 20191 votes

Right, i added it.

CojakJul 23, 20194 votes

I think your view is narrow. Tank items should be different each match to reflect who you are facing, and your own team comp. Cookie cutter builds don't work.

If you have a raka, sona, nami, or taric then Spirit visage would be good, especially if you had the foresight to take the extra heals talent

Facing autoattackers MasterYi Tryndamere XinZhao along with most (crit) marksman: take randuins, thornmail and tabi.

Against a vayne, lee, or %health damage champs then build the above plus armor over health

AP heavy team with AP heavy on your team: Abyss mask

Against Teemo, Cass, Malz, or other dot champs: Adaptive Helm

IF they have armor/magic pen but not %health: Build health items

I'm not in the highest elos so its not uncommon to have several marksman/crit builders on their team, or ap heavy. itemize appropriately and you'll live longer. I think its important to understand that as a tank you will probably die, and if your team wins the fight then its ok that you died to make it happen. Engage, CC, isolate, peel. These are the tank tenants and if you want to do more than that you need to play a different role.

IMO tanks are fine as they are right now. I've seen many games decided because one team had 2 tank/frontline and the other team did not. I've also seen go the other way. Itemizing is important, but letting Yi, Yas, and Trynd scale into late game without building against them will result in a lose.

Genocide VictimJul 23, 20194 votes

Tank items are op early, and suck late. Tbh it seems balanced

MalignMetalJul 24, 20194 votes

They are not even good early

DurzakaJul 24, 20191 votes

in what way is something like Deadmans Op early vs. something like Black Cleaver?

Meteora707Jul 23, 20191 votes

who the fuck is building black cleaver in 2k19?

MalignMetalJul 23, 20195 votes

Fuxking every body

Meteora707Jul 23, 20191 votes

tell me literally one champion that cleaver is meta on

RagnaveilJul 23, 20195 votes

Aatrox. AKA the one item he is damn well forced to get first item.

Meteora707Jul 24, 20191 votes

I mean deaths dance aatrox has a higher winratio and a lot of the best aatrox players go deaths dance or ghostblade but yeah I forgot about aatrox, the only other champion its semi meta on is lucian but even there its not really meta.

DurzakaJul 24, 20191 votes

Rek Sai.

Akali is SO HOTJul 24, 20191 votes

Last Whisper upgrades and Void staff aren't built as the first core items anymore. So in most games they are never built.

The thigh guyJul 24, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9Eo7qyyl,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-07-24T07:40:27.540+0000)

Last Whisper upgrades and Void staff aren't built as the first core items anymore. So in most games they are never built.

Last whisper items come 4 item yes. But black cleaver is almost Always a first or second item.

Void staff is almost always a default 3rd item. If not fourth on someone who’s snowballing hard enough to get an early rabadons.

Cairo KingJul 24, 20191 votes

ADC's have to worry about losing 27% attack speed because of thornmail and frozen heart , all items have counters, however the meta isn't favoring tanks right now.

Posui GartJul 24, 20191 votes

Anti-tank items are usually built as 5th/6th item. If you forced your enemy mage to build item 3135 instead of item 3157 as a 2nd/3rd item, that makes that mage deal a bit lesser damage, have less cdr and be buch less safe, thats actually good for your team. Same with LW items, getting LW as 3rd item is trolling because enemy adc with proper 3rd item will outdamage LW adc hard.

HàrrowRJul 24, 20191 votes

This is why ad items suck!

item 3047 item 3143 item 3110

When you factor this in your infinity edge is critting for 40 damage!

That's the logic in this post, yes, arpen is meant to reduce armor, armor is meant to reduce damage, one reducing the other doesn't make it so that building either one is completely useless.

The thigh guyJul 24, 20191 votes

{quoted}

This is why ad items suck!

When you factor this in your infinity edge is critting for 40 damage!

That's the logic in this post, yes, arpen is meant to reduce armor, armor is meant to reduce damage, one reducing the other doesn't make it so that building either one is completely useless.

And not every champion is building these items. Every champion who is remotely good and isn’t a support is building these pen items irregardless of tanks being in the game of not.