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Morgana mid is strong (53% WR), support is balanced (50% WR), 9.9 hit support harder. Here's why.

TotalJerk··2 votes·1,720 views

Her base shield on Black Shield has gone from 70/140/210/280/350 to 60/120/180/240/300. The AP ratio was completely untouched.

Morgana mid almost always maxes E last on top of the fact that she still has the AP scaling on E. Morgana mid keeps her AP ratio and only loses like 10 shield overall throughout most of the game.

Morgana support often maxes it second or even first in certain matchups. She also buys less or no AP, instead relying on base shield, Forbidden idol line, or utility items for the bulk of her shielding. This change makes Morg support lose, proportionately speaking, significantly more shielding aside from the first few minutes of the game than Morgana mid does.

Why would you choose to nerf the base value over the ratio when the richer, AP building Morgana mid is the problem? This nerf changes almost nothing for her while making Morgana support's life significantly harder against mage supports.

21 Comments

Illabethe2 votes

Cry more nerf addict.

Morgana is a damage dealer, not an enchanter. Learn to live with her that way. She has a ton of counters. Learn to play them.

Morgana Deus2 votes

Her damage is low for a damage dealer lol.

I think the problem with a lot of people in this game is that they have no idea how to build. If you first back merc treads Morgana has lost all of her kill pressure in lane. She mathematically cannot kill you without her having a massive lead or you misplaying a ton.

I just don't get it. I really don't. Is the game this hard for people?

Illabethe1 votes

Which portrait of Morgana do you support, exactly?

You frequently whine because they (Riot) target her damage, etc, and support their buffs (which in fact do help her occasionally, especially when you run Nimbus Cloak).

But, then you generally support a E nerf (I do too but apparently for different reasons), but then also try to stub your toe by saying she's a poor damage dealer.

What exactly do you want?

She can be a high damage dealer depending on build, and above all else, her damage is EFFICIENT when used correctly.

Personally, I'd rather to 29k damage that results in 20 kills, than do 40k damage that results in 10 kills and 15 recalls. That's just me.

She can kill other mages without a massive lead, simply because their HP base is low, and she can get higher ticks faster. But generally; yeah. She needs a lead and needs to end the game before her power tapers off.

Morgana Deus1 votes

I don't think I've ever whined about anything and I was pretty much agreeing with you.

I think Morgana has one amazing ability and the rest of her kit is pretty mediocre. Her damage for a mage is low. If you compared her to just about every other classic mage in the game in terms of damage she'd be near the lowest damage.

That's fine. She's a CC mage.

My point was that these boards act like Morgana just runs over people and one hit kills them with 3 second duration Qs and she has no counter play because black shield is some panacea.

Then Riot tries to nerf things that are irrelevant to why Morgana is strong and banned a lot.

She's banned a lot 100% because of black shield. If you want to lower her ban rate the ability needs to be nerfed. I don't think the ability is overpowered, but I have more than two brain cells and I can do things like bait abilities in order to play champion.

I'm not sure what you want from me. I don't think the champion is overpowered or even that strong. But she is banned in 60% of games so what else can I do but support nerfs until the ban rate goes down and try to teach people how to play against her?

Illabethe1 votes

I'm going to be honest. I've been on the receiving end of her Q since the VGU, and here's what I think:

I think although people are not going to admit it, they hate her more for her Q than her E, even though they hate both.

If you roam mid as a mage to bot to gank a lane with Morgana on it, there are blind angles where just getting near the lane is an almost certain Morgana Q to your face, and then her adc picks up the kill.

And that's the real reason people hate Morgana: Morgana makes kills "Fish in a barrel."

Usually those Q's also happen before a teammate has a gold budget to buy the Mercurials along with their core first item.

In otherwords, there's immense pressure by three roles to ban her:

-Bot lane bans her for E. -Mid lane bans her for "Uninteractive W" -Jungle bans her because Q makes ganking difficult to impossible when used defensively.

The E nerf is only going to reduce bans by Bot lane.

Mid and Jungle still won't like her simply because she stymies their early game advantages.

That's a lot of different things to focus on when trying to consider reducing ban rate while retaining viability.

I'm not even saying these things are OP. I'm saying people experiencing them see them as more annoying to alternatives.

Morgana Deus1 votes

I usually just dont have any problems with Morganas ever. I beat them almost all the time. Her Q is so easy to dodge its kinda sad. Although, its animation is buggy right now so I can understand some frustration with it.

But you what you describe about the jungler's situation is what I've been saying all along. From Morgana's perspective, denying unfun champions like Hecarim the ability to just run in kill you in bot lane is fun. Hecarim's mad that he can't just literally run into someone like an ape and do half of their hp.

I don't understand why this game is so insistent on making people die. Isn't it supposed to be a strategy game and not call of duty? Every patch damage goes up, counter play goes down. Maybe not everyone who plays League wants to die a billion times to whatever flavor of the month burst assassin, power farmer, hyper carry, early mid late game, snowball, support, utility, cc, damage dealer champion they've buffed out the ass for that patch.

Farming and smart play should be just as rewarding as barreling into people.

Illabethe1 votes

I understand your (our) perspective. But what I'm trying to emphasize is..... players see her denial tools to be both more numerous and more powerful to other denial kits.

Which...... is sort of true.

Zyra may have an aoe root, but it's only up to 2 seconds, and she doesn't have the shield.

Neeko may have a stronger aoe root, but she definitely doesn't have a shield either.

Enchanters neither have the denial tools nor the shields Morg does.

They basically see her as the best possible denier in the game.

And, they think that needs a tradeoff.

You and I don't want to make that tradeoff, because we generally know the limitations of her denial.

Morgana Deus1 votes

I generally think Janna and Lulu are better peel than Morgana. But I guess it depends on what you're trying to peel.

Of course Janna and Lulu are awful right now. They could probably use some buffs.

Illabethe1 votes

Personally? The only things wrong with Janna/Lulu is how people build them, and the fact on hit attributes to kits on champions who are not building adc aren't scaling late game. Their damage potentials are actually quite large when they do. You can still build Janna Move speed and be a monster, or Lulu as on Hit and be a monster. But, people follow some generic support-ish build instead.

Kind of like how Sona has just switched to full mage when trying to win a game vs "learn the game." (almost always Luden's/Lich now rather than Censer/Athene's)

TotalJerk1 votes

You know my winrate stat was plat+, right. Even in Diamond+ her winrate is significantly higher. Are you suggesting that high elo players have no idea how to build. Hell if the only standout thing is dealing with her CC, support Morg would likely be just as good as morg mid.

You don't even pick morg mid for "kill pressure". That is not remotely the fucking point of the champion. You pick her to shove hard and minimize interaction until the lategame. You don't pick her to get kill pressure, but to deny for the person you're laning against towards you and anyone lane they might want to roam to. Also, since she easily takes priority she's better for scuttle fights.

Morgana Deus1 votes

She isn't played mid very often in high elo.

Also diamond isn't high elo. Nobody from platinum to diamond 2 is high elo. They're all really, really bad and I'm sure they do not know how to properly build against Morgana.

Just because you're in diamond doesn't mean you're very good or even knowledable about the game. I see people build incorrectly in "high elo" games all the time.

I regularly play in high plat/low diamond diamonds. My entire friends list is diamond/master/challenger. I play with these people every day. I've done custom games with them. I've done 1v1s. I've spent a lot of time learning the game with them. Most of them have no idea how to build against Morgana mid.

Hell, I had a game a few weeks ago with a guy who was diamond one last season. He was in my high plat game. He went 0/15 on yasuo. What an amazing player.

Anyway, I'm getting away from the point.

  • Her ability to shove lane is about as good as every single other mage in the game so I don't see your point.

  • Her scuttle fight is amazing. We'll see how the scuttle changes impact her.

  • Her roam is average for a mid champion. Her mobility is too low to really ever surprise a gank a lane and since we're talking about high elo people actually place wards.

  • Her glacial augment build is ridiculous and GA probably needs to be removed from the game. In fact, this may be the reason she's doing well mid.

TotalJerk1 votes

Nerf addict? Is that really what you're taking away from this? My point is not whether or not she should be nerf, but that this is a BAD nerf.

HP Crookshanks1 votes

Because she's almost always played as support.

TotalJerk1 votes

And support Morgana is balanced. Morgana mid is what is too strong. Nerfing support Morgana is just not statistically justifiable.

HP Crookshanks1 votes

Morgana is/was balanced in both roles.

TotalJerk1 votes

Have you even laned against a decent Morgana mid with Glacial Augment?

HP Crookshanks1 votes

She's annoying but her damage is really weak with that build.

Morgana Deus1 votes

They nerfed the cooldown. That's how you nerf black shield. If these nerfs don't work well enough the next step is nerfing the duration.
The strength of the shield is irrelevant. It's pretty weak as far as shield's go and only blocks one type of damage.

She's also not very strong mid. I'll use 9.8 stats because 9.9 doesn't have enough game played yet to be accurate.

She's 6th in overall win rate and 24th in pick rate. Mid Morgana is a rare pick that is fairly strong. If she's overpowered mid then Zilean is also overpowered because he has a similar pick rate and high win rate. Yet I don't see Zilean nerfs.

These nerfs are happening because Morgana's ban rate won't budge. They're trying to bring it down. Not enjoying playing against a champion doesn't make it unbalanced.

She should probably be nerfed until she goes down to around a 30% ban rate. The next step is to make her shield duration 3 seconds. Every other aspect of her kit is fairly subpar for a mid lane. Trash W. Decent Q. Garbage ultimate. Amazing E.

TotalJerk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Morgana Deus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9BTcYOYs,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-03T01:08:54.377+0000)

The strength of the shield is irrelevant.

Then why even touch it at all? Support morgana needs that shit against mage supports. Fucking with it because mid morgana is obnoxious for totally unrelated reasons is unfair to support Morgana.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Morgana Deus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9BTcYOYs,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-03T01:08:54.377+0000)

They nerfed the cooldown. That's how you nerf black shield. If these nerfs don't work well enough the next step is nerfing the duration.
The strength of the shield is irrelevant. It's pretty weak as far as shield's go and only blocks one type of damage.

She's also not very strong mid. I'll use 9.8 stats because 9.9 doesn't have enough game played yet to be accurate.

She's 6th in overall win rate and 24th in pick rate. Mid Morgana is a rare pick that is fairly strong. If she's overpowered mid then Zilean is also overpowered because he has a similar pick rate and high win rate. Yet I don't see Zilean nerfs.

These nerfs are happening because Morgana's ban rate won't budge. They're trying to bring it down. Not enjoying playing against a champion doesn't make it unbalanced.

She should probably be nerfed until she goes down to around a 30% ban rate. The next step is to make her shield duration 3 seconds. Every other aspect of her kit is fairly subpar for a mid lane. Trash W. Decent Q. Garbage ultimate. Amazing E.

So what you are telling me is that the next step is to delete the champion from the game?

Done251 votes

What would you think of they took damage back off W (mid lane wave clear nerf) and made it Ground targets instead? (Utility buff)

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