guinsoo kog'maw

Toastey·Feb 9, 2016·1 votes·860 views

has anyone tried guinsoo's on new kog? i heard that when he was still in pbe people were doing stuff like BotRK guinsoo's hurricane, and i want to try it. anyone know if it's trash?

20 Comments

QuephaFeb 9, 20165 votes

Guinsoo's is core on Kog'maw right now, usually his first item.

Billy VoHagenFeb 9, 20161 votes

I tried it a while ago. Got a pentakill. It was pretty fun.

Mysticman89Feb 9, 20161 votes

Yeah, guinsoos->runanns->etc for an on-hit kog'maw is pretty much the best way to build him in the adc role currently (in contrast with AP kog), and I suspect his win rate is lower than it should be because of people still trying to build him with bork/trinity force and so forth. (I think gunblade is viewed as better than bork on him now too.)

That said, I'm pretty sure kog's not in a great place metawise even with that build. Kog'll melt faces mid-late game with his w and his assortment of on-hit thigns proccing, but he's still an immobile squishy in a meta full of bursty gap closing champs.

ToasteyFeb 9, 20161 votes

i tried ap kog in when i got him in aram and hoooo boy was it awful. ap kog was (and i think still is) my highest mastery, but i haven't touched it since the rework. maybe it's different when laning and farming on rift, but i really doubt it

Mysticman89Feb 9, 20161 votes

I don't think I've ever failed to be the highest damage dealer in an aram match as AP kog (having the aoe dmg of his e that doesn't fall off with targets hit is really strong when the enemy team is constantly grouped as in ARAMs). I've generally been successful as AP kog on the rift since rework too, although I do find he's weaker then he used to be since his ult poke is far worse now and theres not much benefit to chaining them.

I guess I should clarify though since I think theres actually a couple varients of AP kog out there; when I think of AP kog, I think of a back line kog reliant primarily on e for poke/farming and his ult for executes (with some q's thrown in for extra poke) and almost ignoring the w. I know there are some AA based AP kogs who do make more use of the w alongside nashors and similar, but I find that kind of AP kog lackluster.

ToasteyFeb 9, 20161 votes

maybe the build changed? i went with the good old tear -> luden's -> magic pen (haunting guise, sorc shoes, void staff) -> rylai's build

Mysticman89Feb 9, 20161 votes

Rylais was mainly good because of the ability to chain ults together which is less practical now. It's still good, but I don't know if it's optimal anymore. A build along those lines is still basically what I use, although an argument can be made for combining a chalice with tear for the extra regen (and fqc was also an option for awhile and maybe still is).

I'm not actually much of a mid laner though (I live in bot lane), and my positive experiences with AP kog may be more to do with me just having been better than my lane opponents and winning due to skill disparity, even if it's possible AP kog is relatively weak in the current meta game. Lux is probably the better long-range squishy poke champ currently.

AlsekFeb 9, 20161 votes

Ideal states on him for a mage build: mana regen > mobility > survivability > mpen > AP

His ult is very low scaling but high base damage. So focus on being able to cast it repeatedly with mana regen and help the base damage stick with mpen.

Rylai's is still fantastic on him.

ToasteyFeb 9, 20162 votes

bruh i have like 50k mastery points on ap kog you dont have to lecture me on how to build it LOL

AlsekFeb 9, 20161 votes

ErockandrollFeb 9, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Toasted Pigeon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9BFhhTei,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-02-09T19:04:43.537+0000)

i tried ap kog in when i got him in aram and hoooo boy was it awful. ap kog was (and i think still is) my highest mastery, but i haven't touched it since the rework. maybe it's different when laning and farming on rift, but i really doubt it

Personally, Due to his higher AS focus, as well as his synergy with Rageblade. I have been itching to try and AP/AS build. Allow him to blend his auto Attacks, and spell casts at greatest efficiency.

I think Riot mentioned giving a little power back into his ult. (not sure what happened with that) But for the moment, I would not go with a complete caster build.

But if your playing him on ARAM, try getting FQC, and then using the ghosts to line up your ult. It also helps with your mana sustain, and greatly increases your gold income. (Which is something you want on ARAM)

BonipherusFeb 9, 20161 votes

Nooooo. Botrk is still core on kog. The thing was basically nerfed because of him. With his w active you're essentially doing 12% current health damage which is absolutely insane. You also 100% can not disregard the attack speed you get from the item; a priority stat for him due to how on hits scale. Gunblade should be used in place of a bloodthirster due to it healing off of all damage and not just physical. This is far superior for healing since roughly half of your damage is magical. You can heal from abilities and don't forget this item allows you to heal from those on hit effects you have which bloodthirster wouldn't let you heal from. Gunblade also adds to your ap scalings on your abilities (including w %max health damage) and guinsoo on hit damage as well.

TaoistMasterFeb 9, 20161 votes

it is not trash.

IlliadFeb 9, 20161 votes

Since he can shenanigan all his damage into either ad or ap, whichever suits the little guy at the time, the hybrid items have just shun on him. grab that and max W you will be peeling apart people like you were Corki [slayer-jinx-wink]

Poptart EvelynnFeb 9, 20161 votes

Rageblade is standard item rush on Kog atm.

Problem is NA doesn't have the ping Korea does to orbwalk at 3.5+ atk speed.

ToasteyFeb 9, 20161 votes

yeah i was trying out some high AS builds when he first got reworked and i legit just cancelled every single auto trying to orbwalk. 65ms is a lot...

how many skillshots have you failed to flash out of b/c you have a roughly 60ms margin to react? it happens to me so often

Guyy FieriFeb 9, 20161 votes

Guinsoo's, BORK, Runaan's Hurricane...shred everybody. Super fun. However, takes a long time to scale and you are stupid weak early so I wouldn't do it without being in a team comp that protect you until your powerspike.

ToasteyFeb 9, 20161 votes

ye but that's how kog has always been so i guess it isn't too bad

AlsekFeb 9, 20161 votes

Actually, Kog was capable of holding his own in a team fight as soon as he bought TF before and only scaled up from there.

AlsekFeb 9, 20161 votes

Kog's current build is basically on hit, and does include rageblade. That being said he never really gets the kind of damage he needs to compensate for his ultra low mobility in a burst meta.