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Gold Distribution Needs To Be Reworked.

Rainfall··50 votes·1,878 views

If you get ganked and die,you made some mistakes forgetting to ward or pushing in a bad time. if you get solo killed you made even more mistakes. so why do solo kills give less gold than kills from ganks? Solo killing someone gives my team a 300 gold advantage(400 for fb) killing someone in a gank gives my team a 450 gold advantage (600 for fb) The current gold distribution had as a goal to stop non-carry players to try and avoid getting assists so that they dont steal gold from their carries. This ended up being a huge mistake by riot making all lanes jungle dependent and stripping them from any sort of skill expression,limiting the players decisions and in the end turning the toplane into the junglers seventh jungle camp. All in all the gold distribution for kills heavily favors botlane with 50% extra team gold on every kill.since the support almost always gets an assists,the latest addition to the game the turret firstblood was just the last drop on the overfilled glass that botlane is,since turret fb is mostly taken by bot.Something needs to change to make the game more fair and stop pushing good players away from certain roles by stripping them of all skill expression. Source:http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Kill

34 Comments

Cocho14 votes

Amazing idea, I would love to get a Rioter's opinion on this.

RankOneUganda3 votes

{quoted}

Amazing idea, I would love to get a Rioter's opinion on this.

Riot tends to never comment on anything that would actually be good for the greater good of all roles. evenly disturbing role important class impact and team comp and what not.

Teridax6814 votes

I agree with this, and as a jungler main, I feel the bonus gold earned by ganking a target 2v1 and killing them, even at the cost of one of our own, is one of those forms of hidden power that feels unfair and makes ganking unnecessarily strong at times. By all rights, the defender should be having an easier time catching back up if they get a kill despite being outnumbered, but currently gold gains favor this kind of bullying that makes early gankers so oppressive.

In addition to this, a larger issue with how this gold gets distributed is that it's slanted towards whoever gets the last hit, irrespective of who did the most work: one player could have initiated, taken a chunk of damage, tanked tower, and reduced the enemy laner down to a sliver of health, but so long as the other player shows up to get the last hit, the latter gets far higher a reward than the former. Effectively, gold is currently distributed in a way that privileges just one form of contribution (i.e. last hitting) over everything else, which I feel is unfair and a major reason behind a lot of KS-related frustrations.

Because of this, I completely agree that gold distribution needs to be reworked, and I think it needs to be equalized in such a way that a) ganging up on players and killing them through numbers advantages doesn't grant bonus gold, and b) players get rewarded for participating in a takedown, rather than simply getting the last hit. The most direct way of achieving this could be to just split each champion's gold reward pool equally across everyone who participated in the kill, so in the above case having two champions kill a single target would award them 150 gold each. This would also allow assists to be bunched together with kills into takedowns, something most abilities already do when counting on-kill bonuses, which would also more accurately reflect each player's kill participation in the game, and avoid arguments that put the support or tank down for having fewer kills.

Rainfall4 votes

well regarding the gold going to the one who last hits,i cant see that changing in the game in any way possible. by gold being created out of nothing for assists riot wanted to stop situations like "Janna stop attacking xin zhao let me get the solo gold" which would probably be seen in pro players and would be bad for the game because good support players would try to avoid getting gold and assists.(better player -lower stats) which makes no sense. All in all the gold distribution is a massive problem that the example i provided cannot justify.

Teridax682 votes

{quoted}

by gold being created out of nothing for assists riot wanted to stop situations like "Janna stop attacking xin zhao let me get the solo gold"

I was not aware situations like that had even existed in the game. Has it happened in the past? Because of abilities can influence kill participation as well as basic attacks, leaving a single character to get the "solo gold" would require not assisting them in any way, which in itself could be a valid tradeoff. I think the underlying issue here is also that some classes are designated as entitled to more gold than others, which then forces some champions to defer their own gains towards them, and one way of addressing that could be to make champions about equally gold-dependent as a whole.

Supreme Senpai692 votes

How would you fix the last-hit gold distribution though? Yes, the tank may have done more work, but unless there's a clear way to operationalize what 'work' is and how much one unit of it is, there's no clear way to communicate that to the players. Imagine how frustrating it would be for kills to be given seemingly at random. Last hit makes sense just because it's simple, and teamwork lets you "aim" who gets the most gold. Not clearly knowing who would get the gold seems silly.

As for equal distribution, I feel like that'd slow down games too much. While a kill might give you 300G, now it gives you 100 from a gank. Now you're ahead of your laner by only 100G; it would be more beneficial for the jungler to simply farm up rather than gank. And supports would become OP with the large increase in gold they get. While ADCs would become much weaker with the less gold they receive, since they're basically just a bundle of items.

I think the system could be better, but if it's not broken we shouldn't fix it. It'd take more than simply changing the gold values or who gets the gold.

Teridax682 votes

[{quoted}](name=Supreme Senpai69,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9AF5UEaU,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-09-10T09:55:35.540+0000)

As for equal distribution, I feel like that'd slow down games too much. While a kill might give you 300G, now it gives you 100 from a gank. Now you're ahead of your laner by only 100G; it would be more beneficial for the jungler to simply farm up rather than gank. And supports would become OP with the large increase in gold they get. While ADCs would become much weaker with the less gold they receive, since they're basically just a bundle of items.

This is comparing changes to gold gains to an environment completely balanced around entirely different gold gains, so of course it would change things. ADCs would actually be among the least affected, as most of their early income comes from minions, rather than takedowns. If supports become OP with a higher gold income, it might be better to increase the cost of support items (and, incidentally, they'd be better able to buy AP, which would help isolate them less), and if farm jungling becomes too strong, it might be better to reduce camp gold or implement bonus gold on takedowns via certain jungle items. If gold gains overall are too slow, then it might help to increase passive gold generation or reduce the cost of items, and if gold gains for takedowns specifically are no longer worth it, it might be better to increase the base gold reward pools of champions instead.

The issue I take with gold gains as they're currently implemented isn't their lack of a perfect operational definition of kill contributions (that doesn't need to happen, and would likely be very difficult to even conceptualize, let alone implement), but with how their current means of rewarding takedowns heavily favors a single player for no truly justifiable reason, as explained above. It's the reason why less kill-heavy classes are balanced around lower incomes, which causes a ton of balance and design limitations in its own right (look at how supports get nerfed whenever they scale too hard in solo lanes), and why players get unnecessarily frustrated by KSes, real or perceived, when taking down an enemy player should always be a good thing, regardless of who lands the last hit. The system may not be entirely broken, as everyone still earns income, but it breaks easily when approached from a new angle (when taking a mage like Brand or Malzahar to bot lane, for example), and overall severely limits what can be done with class diversity, in a years-long positional metagame that is already largely stagnant. Improving it could benefit the game immensely.

PePsiLemoNN5 votes

It takes less resources to solo kill someone (yea this sounds dumb). If the jungler ganks top then the enemy jungler can freely invade the bot jungle / gank bot / take drake , so why gank top and let the enemy do w/e the fk they want on the other half of the map if we get even less gold? It's always been like that and there was no problem.

Rainfall2 votes

currently the popular supports(enhancers) are not that good for creating a setup for a succesfull gank in the early game, and the drakes are not realy worth doing early on in the game,so as long as your bottomside buff is already taken and on a respawn timer you can gank top and not get punished for it like you say.Junglers always have a choice in the game sometimes the suboptimal choice is also the unpredictable one.Zed "the unseen blade is the deadliest"

DIILmach005 votes

Never thought about that, but I dont know how youd fix that. You wouldnt want to give 500 gold to solo kills because youd be screwed in lane.

Kyunsei4 votes

Catch-up experience is what enable jungler to abuse gank.

NineTailedMystic4 votes

Because snowballing off a single kill is already too strong because the enemy laner loses Gold, and more importantly EXP? Dying early in lane puts you down a half a level to a level and a half depending on how bad it was in missed XP.

Rainfall1 votes

1.When I solo kill someone,I cant push the lane because the jungler may come and kill me because i have 10% hp. So the enemy laner comes freezes the lane close to his turret and denies me gold and exp.

2.When i kill someone in a gank,i push the lane to the enemy turret with my jungler,we get 50% more team gold from the assist we get more gold and exp from the cs and we deny the enemy laner exp and gold while i come back to a reset lane.

a gank should never be that much more beneficial than a solo kill in any moba game. Being solo killed is an expression of the diference between the skill of 2 players more than a gank is and should be treated as such.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Then reduce gank rewards, not increase solo kill rewards.

Rainfall1 votes

something in between would be the optimal choice. instead of 100%kil + 50% assist pool.

something like 110-125% total gold for solo kill 25-40% of total to assists

NineTailedMystic1 votes

I mean, if you want one mistake to decide a lane, sure.

Sohleks1 votes

In high elo one solo kill really matters but only in the sense of "oh shit that guy really sucks"

I don't think another 100g for a hard earned kill on solo kills only would be that bad. It's like a ward.

Getting solo killed in 2017 is frankly an embarrassment. Your nexus should explode. Well okay. It should be more punishing than what it is.

It's also partially due to Riot always balancing the game so the "gentle" items are by far the strongest. Hyper carries. Tanks. Range. Defense items. Look at Doran's Shield. That thing is sooo. Stupid. With an absurd amount of HP regen it enables auto attackers who are less mana reliant to outsustain and pressure mages mid early game. Before that it was corrupting potion. Same deal taken on Corki. And look at mage items. Anything that says "you're giving up hp/resist/cdr for dmg" is a joke. And how often are bruisers actually good anymore compared to full tanks. And not "builds one half dmg item and full tank thanks to fervor still lethal fighters" (like Renekton). And assassins are a meme.

The game is faster now. Aggressive champs shouldn't have to outplay the heck out of you FIVE times in 20 minutes to be relevant. Mistakes are less now too and so kill gold going up a tad might be ok. I'm predicting they'll definitely have to be some rebalancing but I think it'll be an ok change.

This game is like at least 50% pve at this point.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

One mistake should not be "that guy really sucks" or decides your lane. ex: dying from a Syndra stun into a combo.

400g from a kill can be the difference between an item/component or not.

Being solo killed (or killed in lane in general) is already extremely punishing. Like you're probably not coming back without your jg or support roaming. You're often constantly a level behind your opponent and down in a component (amp tome vs no amp tome). You're pretty much out for the game and it's been like that for like a season and a half.

I'm not entirely sure what you're getting at with the "gentle items" paragraph.

thefance3 votes

Every gank is a gamble. It means your jungler is investing time, map pressure, and cooldowns. The ante is the opportunity cost. And you two might not even get the kill. Which means the enemy laner is effectively 1v2ing, creating a 5v4 situation favoring the enemy team.

The extra 150 gold is compensation for the jungler sacrificing resources. Not just cooldowns, but also information. When your jungler ganks, the enemy team knows not only where he is currently (obviously), but also what camps he recently completed. You can infer this from red-buff/blue-buff sigils, and from their cs, and which laner was late to lane because they leashed. Blue buff is 1; red buff is 1; gromp is 1; wolves is 3; raptors is 6; krugs is 10. While your jungler ganks, the enemy jungler can gank another lane. Or steal camps. Or sneak a dragon. Or if the ally jungler is low hp after the gank and used flash, the enemy jungler can cheese him in his own jungle.

If you or an ally gets a solo kill and is rewarded only 300 gold, that's fine because your jungler might be applying pressure elsewhere on the map. And the enemy team has bigger problems anyway, because solokills are rare if both players are similar in skill and playing near optimally. The solo killer shouldn't need 450 gold since they've already demonstrated enough skill to shut down the lane, and have all the cards set to snowball themselves due to kill exp and cs denial.

LS recently made a tangentially related video. He's been saying for ages that the mechanic that actually needs a rework is rubberband exp.

Rainfall1 votes

I do not understand why i as a laner should be punished for having a bad jungler this much? i already depend on my jungler to not miss his smite on baron. i already depend on my jungler to not miss his smite on drake. i already depend on my jungler to secure the teams camps. is that not enough? does the enemy team having a better jungler should also provide the enemy team with extra gold created specificaly for assists? No. Jungle is already an overloaded role that much is obvious to me,junglers and adcs have been so impactfull in the game because of this system. the gold for kills needs to be reworked and junglers should be rewarded for a portion of the kills reward not gold created out of nothing. League of legends is a team game and every player should have a fair portion of impact on the game.

thefance1 votes

Watch LS's video for a different perspective. Junglers rely on the laners they gank to have enough competence to snowball the lane. But outside of KR, laners are generally trash. So it's better for non-KR junglers to power farm, rather than power gank. Because power ganking means junglers often fall behind on exp, which later affords junglers less strength compared to solo laners. I.e. the jungler must make a tradeoff between growth and agency. But this tradeoff might not be obvious to a sololaner.

LS once said that the quality that distinguished Faker from every other challenger was his ability to 1v2 the midlaner and jungler, and still come out even (if not ahead). Faker would exert so much pressure, the enemy mid would beg their jungler to gank him. The gank would generally fail. Meanwhile, SKT would accrue advantages elsewhere on the map.

AirKingNeo2 votes

Kills should give whatever they normally give to the killer, but any number of assists means the assistants steal 1/6th of the kill gold (excluding FB bonus).

So a basic kill gives the killer (if one person assists) 250 gold and 50 gold to whoever assists (instead of 300 to killer and 150 to each assisting). This stops junglers from running town all day. Supports can be adjusted too (such as items being lower cost and lower efficiency/strength, so other's can't abuse them).

EDIT: Rainfall makes some of the best posts btw

Snake Prince1 votes

yes but ap supports won't buy the support items with reduced prices since they go for mage build , so u take away a whole class from the bot lane ( diversity wasn't great already lul )

AirKingNeo1 votes

That makes no sense as an argument.

Snake Prince1 votes

oh and why ? i talked about Zyra Velkoz Brand btw

What Is Smite2 votes

Botlane getting fb tower? Uh huh tell that to Mordekaiser who can take inhibs at 15mins into a game

Rainfall3 votes

trundle is better at taking turrets now. the future is now old man

KoKoboto1 votes

I feel you could go to patch 5.22 and revert a lot of changes in order to get a better game.

Patch 5.22 (the "marksmen" patch) really screwed up a ton of stuff.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-522-notes#patch-mana-and-mana-regen-adjustments

Champions don't need to worry about mana early unless you're an idiot and don't know mana management. Makes it so all champions can just blow spells around everywhere with less repercussions. Easy wave clear for everyone.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-522-notes#patch-ambient-gold http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-522-notes#patch-minions http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-522-notes#patch-marksman-itemization http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-522-notes#patch-kill-gold-rewards

Everyone gets richer sooner. This, in tandem with the cheaper marksmen items, makes marksmen scale that much easier. Minions give more gold early making it even easier to get early items. Global kill gold? Getting those items sooner means people are dying sooner and objectives are being taken sooner.: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/Qy7FEPhe-is-it-me-or-do-ad-late-game-hyper-carries-have-a-lot-of-early-game-pressure

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-522-notes#patch-turrets Turrets nerfed. This speaks for itself... 100 armor and magic resist to NOTHING. First tower gold as well.

Gold in general could use a large over haul. I suggest lowing ambient gold gains, increasing gold for kills and minion kills, decreasing team gold for all kills,

Hextech Healer1 votes

I think a way to fix the first blood gold would be to make the turrets mid and top be the ones that have less defense after 3 minutes and not bot lane where the focus always is. It would relieve some pressure from the 4/5 man bot ganks that always happen. Plus, assuming that you kill the enemy adc and support, you get a ton of gold from that one gank (2 kills, possibly a first blood kill, 3-5 people getting gold from each kill, and the first turret gold).

Hope And Piece2 votes

{quoted}

I think a way to fix the first blood gold would be to make the turrets mid and top be the ones that have less defense after 3 minutes and not bot lane where the focus always is.

The reason that bot tower does not have 5 minute damage reduction is that it was an intentional change to keep pros from lane swapping at game start, The threat of your turret dropping that early is major and makes those initial lane swaps more rare and interesting

So blame esports!

Snake Prince1 votes

buffing solo kills gold make the game more snowbally , there is no skill expression when u get solo killed by ur counter matchup .

Nut on my Butt1 votes

If you get a solo kill, you probably don't need as much gold to snowball, and the enemy team sometimes gets more tilted if they see it happen especially if multiple times.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Not to mention whoever is dead becomes significantly behind, both in gold and experience. With towers being to pathetic it's easy to take one out in two waves as well.

Sohleks1 votes

Solo kills should give 100 more gold

This would indirectly affect bot lane. Some would say. " Good" But I don't think the effect would be all that noticeable as solo kills aren't THAT common in decent elo and 100g is like a ward.

The game has basically always over rewarded pansy gameplay.

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