Suggested Cho'Gath Changes: Nerf Frustration, Maintain Idenitity

Meep Man··3 votes·792 views

Currently, Cho'Gath has become kind of a "Tank Carry" in that he can carry the game simply through his sheer health pool, mostly due to the Feast stacks. His current E is busted and is getting nerfed, but I don't think this will solve the main issue of Cho'Gath, being that he just feels frustrating to play against due to how MUCH free damage he gets from his own kit and Feast stacks. His E and R become huge hitting trucks by him simply existing throughout the game, which doesn't feel nice to play against. These are some suggestions that should be a net nerf, but compensate him in other ways so that he doesn't fall off the face of the earth.

Base Stats Health: 574 (+80 per level) -> 600 (+90 per level) Movement Speed: 345 -> 340 Attack Damage: 61 (+4.2 per level) -> 55 (+4.5 per level)

Ability 1- Rupture Mana Cost: 60 mana -> 60/65/70/75/80 mana Cool Down: 9 seconds -> 11/10.5/10/9.5/9 seconds

Ability 2- Feral Scream Base Damage: 75/125/175/225/275 -> 65/115/165/215/265 AP Ratio: (+70% AP) -> (+75% AP)

Ability 3- Vorpal Spikes Mana Cost: 30 mana -> 25/30/35/40/45 mana Cool Down: 8/7/6/5/4 seconds -> 10/8.5/7/5.5/4 seconds

Ultimate- Feast Cool Down: 80 seconds -> 90/80/70 seconds Base Damage: 300/475/650 -> 330/440/550 AP Ratio: (+50% AP) -> (+70% AP) Health Ratio: (+10% bonus health) -> (+6/7.5/9% bonus health) Feast Stacks Effect: Feast stacks now increase Cho'Gath's base health by the amount instead of granting him bonus health Health per Stack: 80/120/160 -> 100/150/200

Note: These changes go along with the current changes being applied to him on the PBE.

These are some changes that I believe should be made to Cho'Gath. I ALSO believe that Gargoyle Stoneplate should have it's interaction with Cho'Gath removed so that it does not boost his ultimate damage. Anyways, so what have these changes accomplished? Well, let's go over them:

1. Cho'Gath's Ultimate No Longer Has Potential Infinite Damage This is a huge one. Since Feast stacks now provide Base Health instead of Bonus Health, the damage of Feast can no longer scale infinitely. This was a needed change in my opinion since infinite scaling burst on a true damage nuke is not something that is healthy for the game or fun to play against, especially if you are the ADC or Mage on the enemy team. It just makes it so the game revolves around how close Cho'Gath is to select members of your team, which becomes near impossible to accomplish if he has Flash and Righteous Glory. Simply put, if Cho'Gath is going to have both infinite health and a form of infinite damage, his true damage nuke should not be one of them.

2. Cho'Gath Is Less Oppressive Early Game Currently, despite being an infinite scaling champion, Cho'Gath has QUITE the early game due to his constant pressure with his Q and E (and W if you are spell reliant). Changes to his early cool downs and attack damage should make his powerful abilities more punishing to miss or use inappropriately. His mana costs have also been increased to further emphasize that he will be punished if he misses or spams his abilities in lane, especially his E since currently he can use it constantly since the E will almost always be triggering his passive on nearby minions. Finally, a small movement speed nerf should make trades with some melee champions not quite as easy to win.

3. Further Reward Cho'Gath For Building Damage Over Tank Slight buffs to his W and R ratios make Cho'Gath a little more rewarded for building AP. Currently, it doesn't feel good enough to build AP due to how great Bonus Health makes Cho'Gath currently. The AP Ratio buffs combined with the removal of Gargoyle Stoneplate cheese would make Cho'Gath be much more likely to build much more hybrid than just pure tank stats.

4. Make Sure Cho'Gath Stays In the Game After the Nerfs Despite what some think, I have met many who love the new Cho'Gath. The feeling of being this huge, unkillable monster is really fun to them. They enjoy him more for simply how durable he is than the damage he deals, with the latter just being a perk. Due to this, I think the best way to compensate Cho'Gath for the various nerfs to his kit is to up this feeling even more by boosting his potential to become HUGE in the health bar. With these changes, Cho'Gath has more base health and each Feast gives much more health than before, except it no longer is increased by Cinderhulk of course (which is another questionable interaction with his kit that makes it difficult to balance).

Basically, with these changes, all potential "cheese" with Cho'Gath has been almost entirely removed and his ultimate is now much less oppressive to the enemy ADC and Mages. His early game is weaker, but his overall durability late game has been boosted so that these nerfs don't leave him as a steaming pile of trash while also boosting the power of what makes him feel unique and fun. Exact numbers are likely off in a few places, but I wanted to just try and get them close enough to where you get the picture. Thoughts?

13 Comments

LyingOnLine2 votes

Or we could just kill the Stoneplate interaction (since that item has been warping the pro scene about itself) and have everything be awwwwright.

Dani El Pezglobo1 votes

we could nerf ult so it isnt true damage anymor (magic damage) , so he cant one shot u if u build right

Meep Man1 votes

The Stoneplate interaction isn't the core of Cho'Gath's issues however. He is frustrating because his R, even without Stoneplate, can nuke someone down without much resistance as long as he has some form of gap closer like Flash or Righteous Glory. His R shouldn't have potentially infinite damage.

LyingOnLine1 votes

This is true, and yet the Stoneplate interaction is the single biggest damage multiplier in his kit. Without it, he gets less feast stacks and thus does less damage.

Meep Man1 votes

True. We could just remove the Stoneplate interaction and call it done. However, I don't like it when Riot band-aid fixes some champion and leaves them with kit mechanics that can make them explode in the future due to the future item changes/new items. I'd rather set a champion so that their kit can't possibly have any cheese interactions now and in the future, while also trying to make them as "little frustrating" to play against as possible since a frustrating champion, even if underpowered, will still get flack and will still ruin game experiences.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

Meep Man1 votes

I have never found Cho'Gath's early game to currently be weak. His current E makes him an incredible champion at dueling, especially when combined with his silence and eventually his R.

ChargeItDownMid2 votes

[deleted]

Meep Man1 votes

I guess we just have different experiences with the ability, because I have found that any Cho'Gath who can Q or W someone and then begin to E them almost always wins the fight.

Profirix1 votes

Part of the problem is that his counters arent played much these days (Vayne, Kog, Kallista).

Profirix1 votes

His early game is ATTROCIOUS against anyone with bully potential. He basically has to farm with Q against the standard tops these days (Jarvan, Darius, Gnar, etc.) I appreciate your thought, but with these changes, you basically gimp him so badly early and mid game that he might as well not exist, plus you remove most of his incentive to build tanky, which he needs to be in order to fully utilize his kit. Also, mana cost increases would absolutely destroy him.

hhaavviikk1 votes

I personally think his passive is also a problem, it allows him amazing sustain in lane

Meep Man1 votes

If we nerf Cho'Gath's passive, he might as well not have one. It's that kind of passive. If the sustain isn't noticable, it isn't even a passive really. Cho'Gath's passive would require a full rework to update, which is better saved for a VGU.

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