No matter who is playing them. Do you guys feel the same way?
Coincidentally (or not) most of these are either new champion releases , or reworks.
EDIT: I mean playing against them makes me feel that way
DarwinTheory39 votesSame here.
It used to be if you were countered there was a 60% chance of a loss 40% chance you could outplay.
Now it's 95% chance loss. 5% outplay.
And then there's the random X factor. When you're the counter the enemy jungler runs to lane cheese ganks you for 80% health so you have to give up all lane priority or feed.
It does feel like there's very little player skill involved anymore. People just faceroll with OP champs and feast or famine to victory. Its soul-destroying...............
LaceUpXX2 votesIt does feel like there's very little player skill involved anymore. People just faceroll with OP champs and feast or famine to victory. Its soul-destroying...............
And that's 100% the playerbase's fault. People just need to learn to play safer if the enemy is better.
ihateyouallmuted12 votesThat's such a strange stance to take.
There's currently more overt, flat, accessible damage than the game has ever seen, in a time when they also decided to remove multiple sources of vision. Mobility and CDR are more prevalent than any previous iteration of the game. Towers are gold pieces stacked on top of one another.
How much of this did the players decide?
LaceUpXX1 votesAnd even with all that, if the enemy laner is better than me, I can still play safe and farm up and wait for advantages to fight.
GigglesO2 votesYou mean afk?
Z3SIeeper3 votesYeah just play under tower, don't overextend to get cs and wait as they slowpush for the inevitable 2v1 towerdive w/ their jungler.
GigglesO3 votesGotcha, Just remember to clearly stay out of exp range as the enemy has minions perfectly stalled too.
Z3SIeeper2 votesYeah don't wanna feed them and put yourself behind.
LaceUpXX1 votesThe massive amount of players are in silver and gold. It's not like the enemy is good enough to counter your every mistake at these elos. It's the constant dying, giving of free gold and map pressure, that snowballs game the majority of times in these elos.
Metal Janna24 votes
.
Oh I played it perfectly and dodge every hook all lane long? He could still hook my carry.
Oh my carry and I both perfectly dodge every hook all lane long? He could still get a gank from his jungler and flash W catch us.
Oh we both played the lane perfectly, didn't get ganked, and manage to kill him on a failed engage? He can still start snowballing off our midlaner, whom he ganks 45 seconds later because he has SO MUCH MS in addition to his dash, speed boost, and blink-execute.
Enemy picks = my skill is now irrelevant. I have to count on my ADC not pushing too hard and him failing the engage HARD in order to kill him and earn myself 60 seconds of not having to dodge hooks. At no point am I allowed to make a play myself because he has too many escapes to kill without him blowing them trying to engage first. Even if I do play it perfectly and set him behind with a kill or two, he can still make up the deficit somewhere else with a single ult because Riot for some reason thought it was a good idea to buff his R to the point that he scales like a hypercarry despite being a hook support.
PhearBunny15 votessince late 2016 the balance standard has been hyperoverloaded+overtuned. Not every champion has been updated yet to meet that standard yet, but eventually we'll all be running around on champions that have hyperoverloaded mechanics and an answer to every situation. Which is pretty much Riots way of balancing the game. If everyone is broken, noone is broken type thing.
ihateyouallmuted9 votesjust a shame they show so much restraint in buffing champions who actually need it
Troll Slaiyer15 votesnightmare mode activated: 
.
all u can do is hope they suck, otherwise they will borderline assassinate ur whole team and be difficult to kill at the same time.
i mostly blame runes and a few items, not the champs themselves.
Ragnaveil2 votesAatrox loses to mobility and damage mitigation, something that exists plenty in this meta. ADCs have Enchanters and PD, Mages have Zhonyas, other AD users have GA (plus adcs), and mobility is everywhere.
Hot LeBlanc Yuri11 votes
Basically champs that never lose because they win my losing
Ahris6 votesHow is Ahri in there? If ahri loses lane, she is only a charm bot. I will not consider that winning. Other mages have way better cc, so why not include them too?
Hordes666 votesProbably because she's been over strong for 2 years and that stupid charm didnt' need any buffs.
Ahris1 votesahri is not even strong. atm she is pretty bad. She cannot carry. Look at my history.
CrimsonBloodFang1 votesahri is not even strong. atm she is pretty bad. She cannot carry. Look at my history.
I main mid fid on other account and I don't really worry bout ahri. So i'll say I don't have issues with her and at least her kit is small character limit amount and pretty straightforward. Least don't take all day to read/understand. Her spell animations and/or need to step forward to land or cast them seems to make them easy to see in advance. That said when she roams bot she almost always gets double or triple kill even when I ping them roam all the way from mid. and type it too. So guess when slow moving crap champ can dodge an ahri but 2 bot laners with fully warded river and spam pinging cant not feed her then maybe she is still an assassin :). Oh well. :P Some peeps have troubles with her.
Ahris1 votesBotlaners, and other laners in general are very bad when it comes to skillshots. But then, the champs skillshots are to be blamed and not them :/.
Mordekaiser for example, is a ridiculous champ to face.
Hordes662 votesWell, according to the data she's had a high win rate and high pick rate for a long time. https://u.gg/lol/champions/ahri/build
Maybe you're just bad, and biased.
Ahris1 votesThat explains why pro players call her trash. Oh wait.
Meme God Shrek4 votes[{quoted}](name=Hot LeBlanc Yuri,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=96wWHZrf,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-20T11:45:05.113+0000)
I agree with most of those, but Ahri and Aatrox not so much. Aatrox is terrible against champions with decent mobility and Ahri can't do anything if she doesn't land her charm.
Ragnaveil1 votesIdk why you got downvoted, you are right on that.
Clone Is Friend3 votes[{quoted}](name=Hot LeBlanc Yuri,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=96wWHZrf,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-08-20T11:45:05.113+0000)
i think u need to add sylas
Ahris2 votesThough add Zed, and almost any melee champ. They will always have so much power despite feeding.
Ragnaveil9 votesYep. Look at Jax right now, and tell me how in gods name you are gonna deal with him if he pops R with Spear.
HateDaddy4 votesYep. Look at Jax right now, and tell me how in gods name you are gonna deal with him if he pops R with Spear.
The idea is you don’t let him get to that point, which is very doable if you’ve the opportunity to counterpick him. In fact, there are very few match-ups where he’s outright favored in. Still don’t think he needed that’s q buff, even if it makes little difference.
Ragnaveil1 votesThats the issue: If you can counterpick him. It stretches back to the issue of the counterpick meta. His issues are very similar to Riven's where its on the person playing them to fuck up more than the person fighting them outplays them. Cooldowns were to be his weakness, and now they aren't because they've been buffed in many ways.
CrimsonBloodFang1 votesYep. Look at Jax right now, and tell me how in gods name you are gonna deal with him if he pops R with Spear.
Feels to me the jax issue is as much the conquerer heal on passive auto attack stacking as it is the spear. Seems like buying a grievous wounds item should counter a non kit, non item, rune heal; yet still feels like need perma cc'd to make him die :).
Ragnaveil1 votesConq heal isn't much of the issue, moreso his damage. Magic damage on W and R makes it hard to itemize against him. If they were lower amounts it would be easier to tolerate, but they have decent scaling right now (and Jax's max W second or first since the buff).
CrimsonBloodFang1 votesThe problems I've had against him are more that his health bar isn't going down in skirmishes and teamfights as long as he is actively smashing someones face he is often healing more dmg then he is taking till he has lightened us of one person then since the 3 or 4 of us weren't doing enough to net negative his health bar one short aint gonna do so either then he gets triple or quadra and has more health than he started the fight. Still prob requires a talented player to time his abilities to avoid cc; but just seems hard against talented ones to make the dmg stick lately lategame. After one game I was looking up items and jax kit asking myself where is this man's healing coming from I just didn't think jax kit had any and none of his items had any. That left me with conquerer as sole source. Feelin the need to buy executioner's blade against him ever since then :P. Wouldn't mind so much peeps dealin high dmg or mixed dmg as long as they themselves can take dmg in return.
Ekhasm9 votesBecause RIot has a lot of favorites - champs that MUST always be broken. If you play anything not on the favorites list, it's a huge uphill struggle
14daysuspensionk4 votes
(For this patch atleast), 
a bit annoying when he stealths up on you without you knowing and blows his full combo on ya.
/
When they're fed with an overwhelming resource of heald and shields, 
Permaban as always, I would put Pyke here but the only real annoying thing about him is the ult and dash stun, all these are somewhat mild for me though.
The Kombinator2 votesWell the 3 rule for most new/reworked champs.
Low CD on everything, that can't stop an ult, or an ult. itself.
High mobility, or tank.
Low costs, or no cost.
High damage (generally on everything).
I wrote MOST, because Pantheon, and Kayle are exceptions for now.
Low CD means, that there is no opening. He uses all the skills, and. Nothing. You don't have time to abuse it, and counterattack. By the time you can do anything relevant everything is up again.
High mobility makes them hard to target, and gives them the power to decide when to fight. You can't outrun them for escape, or reach them for engage. Even worse when a champion can escape without going all-in. Those champs just jump on you, deal damage, then leave. Whether you are dead or not.
Low costs+high damage erased the "build defense" outplay method. Back in the day one of the outplay was to build defense, and farm under turret. You might not be able to defeat the opponent, but at least can survive, and farm. Now that doesn't work. You can put all your money on defense, and still get killed quite fast. And if you are forced to recall, then plates gives extra gold to opponent.
With Xerath "support" botlane is kinda auto win. Unless enemy is a freaking dodge-master. I'm not good with it. Less than 10 games, but on every single one we won lane phase. Even if just 1 from 5 Q hits is more, than enough to force recall, or kill. Not 4 from 5, or at least half. 20% is enough.
CrimsonBloodFang1 votesYou forgot word/text wall kit bloat. All new champs and remakes need to have so many things in each and every spell that it becomes multiple paragraphs per spell, and mathematical formulas written out in each. flat dmg x level + ap x 75% + 5% per stack x N Stacks + ad x 150% + 7% current health x flat dmg true dmg + doubled if marked by other spell = One random paragraph in a random 5 paragraph passive nowadays. Takes 6hours to read the kits now can't just do it in loading screen and good luck understanding any of it.
TekkenPlayer2 votes
Feels like theres genuinely no reason to interact with these champions as an immobile mage because they only need one-two good trades to beat several good ones that you made.
hoganftw1 votes
win lane? lose lane? he just splitpushes until you cannot hold him back anymore and he sacks your nexus
lentthis1 votesCounter picks before: You gotta do good to outplay these guys Counter picks now: You lost the game at 0:00 GG.
There are still some that arent as bad but getting counterpicked now is a punch to the gut.
CasterGilgamesh1 votesyes every time i try to play 
or even 
like their kits got watered down so much i might as well just not play them also same with 
ModCaptainMårvelous1 votesNope, save for two guys:
Very strange how some of the oldest champs are also some of the most truly problematic.
Hordes661 voteswtf? Ezreal currently ranks 17/17 ADCs with a negative winrate. That's actually DOWN from last patch where he was ranked 16/17 before riots genius balance team nerfed him from shit tier to even shittier tier.
GodlyBane1 votes
Mangled Puppets1 votesRiot has pushed a lot of the skill expression outside of the player's hands and put them into the champion instead.
Outplaying someone use to require more knowledge and individual mechanics out of the player.
Now a days most outplaying is hinged on the mechanics of the champion.
