AS has more appeal on him than Arm.Pen., since most of his damage - and all of his sustain - is in his basic attacks. I've done crit builds with him more often than I have penetration builds.
"Devourer is not what you build on him."
This has been said to me about a dozen times, and I still have no idea why anyone would think that. His burst is sorta good, but not that good.
delonix6 votes"As of patch 5.18, I prefer [Warrior] as it has solid stats for Nocturne and is not as risky as a devourer enchant if your team is getting punished in the early game and you can't find time to farm. If the game is not going well early on, I would opt for a cinderhulk instead." - ugapa, Master Nocturne Jungler, in his guide on Nocturne jungle on lolking (http://www.lolking.net/guides/255384).
Obviously you may have better luck with devourer on Nocturne at lower elos, and if you are having success, don't let other people bring you down.
There are a few reasons people have been telling you not to build devourer. First, Nocturne doesn't really have the tools to solo carry games. He's much more suited to helping your lanes snowball. Nocturne's early ganks can be devastating. Landing a Q does a significant amount of damage and allows you to chase people down. If you can finish your E on enemies, the movement speed and fear almost guarantees a kill or flash. W is great for early ganks, when there's only one ability that can save your target. Nocturne's ult is great at finishing low health enemies or joining a skirmish that started before you got to the lane.
The Warrior enchant helps all of this. Your autoattacks, Q, and R scale on AD and armor pen. The cooldown reduction means your ult is available more often and you might be able to get a second Q off to finish a low health enemy. Devourer on the other hand, doesn't really help you with early ganks. Sure, 50% attack speed is nice, but what does it actually mean in an early gank? 1 or 2 more autoattacks? If you're lucky it gives you a second proc of your passive. Plus, 30+ on-hit magic damage should always be less than the extra damage you get from 45 ad and 10 armor pen.
Once you do get to the late game, you'll have Sated Devourer, which is really nice with your passive, but what else do you have? Let's compare Nocturne's kit to Master Yi, a champion who most would agree should build Devourer.
Passive: The passives are pretty similar actually: hit people to hit them more. Nocturne's gives a small amount of sustain, while Master Yi's has a slight edge with the double hit.
Q: Nocturne's Q has good base damage, good scaling, and gives you AD while you're on it. It's great for early ganks, teamfights, and even poke wars. Master Yi's Q also does decent damage in a small area, but it also gives him an instant-speed dash instead of movement speed and an invulnerability frame. Invulnerability is huge in the late game. If you can kill your enemies in 3 hits and they can kill you in 3 hits, getting in 2 hits before they can get in 1 is amazing. Plus, Master Yi's Q scales with attack speed because of the reset mechanic.
W: Nocturne's W is great in early ganks, when you can absorb some cc and proceed with your easy gank. In the late game, it becomes much more difficult to shield the correct spell. Even if you do, there's probably something else that they can throw at you. Master Yi's W gives him healing and damage reduction. In the late game, this can be used as a stall to let the cd on Q refresh so that Yi can go back in.
E: Nocturne's E is, again, great in early ganks. Single target CC that gives you movement speed is ridiculous. Late game, it will be much harder to keep the tether and even if you fear someone, there are usually 4 other people around. Master Yi's E gives him 5 seconds of true damage on autoattacks. Not only does this scale with attack speed, like his Q, it's best in the late game, when people have enough armor and mr to make devourer not hurt so much.
R: This is probably the most obvious difference. Nocturne's R is great for assassinating single targets, not for diving into a 1v5 fight where the vision denial won't even matter. Master Yi's R has a passive and active that both scream late game carry. Resets are always extremely strong. Add to that bonus attack speed, movement speed, and immunity to slows and you have a formula for strong melee adc.
Second, besides his passive, Nocturne's kit doesn't scale with attack speed. It scales with AD, Armor Pen, and Cooldown Reduction, which happens to be exactly what Warrior has.
Third, (and this builds on the first point) Devourer encourages Nocturne to farm the jungle instead of doing early ganks. Large monsters are easier to kill than champions. Scuttle crab vision is nice, but doesn't snowball your lanes.
FantasySniper1 votes50% AS is about 1 more attack every 3 seconds for Nocturne. Most of his ganks can last up to 5 seconds, so it's at least one more passive proc. His Dusk Trail gives AD, which is multiplied by the AS, so he does have more than his passive for synergy with AS.
The only times I've used Warrior were when I didn't have the time to farm or get an early objective. The CDR helps immensely, but it still feels more worth it to get Devourer's AS multiplier. Looking through all the threads and stuff, Devourer is apparently the late-game item, with Warrior being the mid-game item. The conditions for use of each seem to agree with mine.
Once the Phantom Hit nerf comes out, that'll all change, though... Warrior will end up being completely dominant in Nocturne builds.
delonix1 votes50% AS is about 1 more attack every 3 seconds for Nocturne. Most of his ganks can last up to 5 seconds, so it's at least one more passive proc. His Dusk Trail gives AD, which is multiplied by the AS, so he does have more than his passive for synergy with AS.
So 50% attack speed is worth it if you can guarantee your ganks will last at least 5 seconds and you get all your autoattacks. This doesn't really respond to the reasons I outlined for why people might say Devourer "isn't what you build" on Nocturne. Warrior enchant is still probably better for early ganks, Nocturne's kit is great for early ganks, and Devourer encourages you to farm instead of snowballing your lanes.
Yes, Dusk Trail does give AD while you are on the trail. I'd be willing to bet that Dusk Trail has more synergy with Warrior than Devourer despite this.
The only times I've used Warrior were when I didn't have the time to farm or get an early objective. The CDR helps immensely, but it still feels more worth it to get Devourer's AS multiplier.
That's fine, and if you're winning with Devourer, or if you like it more, that's what you should build. In that case, you shouldn't care what is optimal or what other people say, just have fun playing League.
Looking through all the threads and stuff, Devourer is apparently the late-game item, with Warrior being the mid-game item. The conditions for use of each seem to agree with mine.
I certainly haven't looked through all of the threads and Nocturne guides, but if they tend to agree with you, more power to your build. I think it's still worth considering the strengths and weaknesses in Nocturne's kit independently of other people's opinions and deciding for yourself. Sometimes people do things just because other people are doing them, and no one ever considers that it might be better to do something else.
Once the Phantom Hit nerf comes out, that'll all change, though... Warrior will end up being completely dominant in Nocturne builds.
This Phantom Hit nerf? "Sated Devourer - Ranged champions now trigger Phantom Hit this every fourth attack instead of every 2." (surrenderat20.net, 9/26). I'm not sure why that would change anything. It's only for ranged champions. There might be another nerf in the works that I don't know about though.
FantasySniper1 votesOh, appears I misread it. Looks like they're nerfing Kayle.
At least I'll be able to still have that freedom of choice. Thanks for your help.
Craft Zeppelin1 votesin the old days nocturne was real bad after 20 mins. Now he can stack up with his godlike ganks, and still remain a significant facehugger threat.
CppL1 votesDont listen to them.they idiots.Nocturne scales really well with AS.Devour+botrk ,holy shit you gonna rek faces.
HayRoss1 votesBecause they don't want to have to deal with devourer
Visigoth1 votestbh it depends on playstyle and overall build, along with what your team needs. Devourer + BotRK into 3 tank items (I prefer Spirit Visage + 2 armor items, but obviously it depends on the enemy team) and boots, then you can be a dps threat and splitpush or teamfight.
on the other hand building something along the lines of Hydra, Youmou's, LW, BotRK, BF items, etc. means you can ult, use your actives and q and burst anyone who isn't at Mundo levels of tankiness.
Phuc Dat Bich1 votesBecause Nocturne is a burst champion who need to gank alot because after 25++ minutes is kinda useless!!
If you go for Devourer you will not gank a lot your ulti and Q would not deal damage and you will need to stay in one place an AA with a champion that have some of the lowest base stats!
Plus you losing the 10% CDR on a champion that have 2.30 seconds ulti.....
Plus Noc is all about go in burst someone or CC someone and go out not going in and try to AA till someone dies... Other champs can do that because they have some tank steroids (Shyvana/Udyr/Xin/etc) Yi can do that because he have a slow immunity that allow him to go in and out in fights!!
Do i need to continue why warrior is way better than devourer?