Let's talk Karma. Anyone else feel she needs something.....more?

IGotScuttleCrabs··3 votes·713 views

I actually really enjoy Karma. Especially in Mid lane. Problem is, she feels like she's missing something in her kit. As any original Karma player will state, she's to much of a Q bot. And I couldn't agree more. Q, Q, mantra Q, W then E to keep up and shrug off some damage, but then back to Q.

A couple ideas I have: Karmas tether is probably the easiest to break out of similar abilities. Possible:

  • add a small slow to keep them in range

  • buff the break range past her max activate range

  • (least favorite) reduce time needed to channel

  • maybe give her more movement speed (although your shield does so maybe steel movement speed?

Another idea is perhaps her passive and auto attacks. Currently autos refund the cooldown by 1 second. So maybe buff her range or attack speed. Perhaps make nashors an appealing item on her turning her into somewhat of a dps harass champ.

Last and least likely is give Mantra abilities separate cooldowns. This would probably come with number nerfs though..

Overall I feel the tether is the best place to start looking. It's rarely if ever used for the damage. It usually requires a Q slow and E speed boost to actually get the root. And while I actually love the mantra W heal bait, it usually only comes in handy if you're very low on health and can bait an engage while not being focused.

Side idea for support Karma that is like a rioters opinion on. What if you shielded an teammate, the used Mantra W and it transferred or shared the heal to them?? I feel this would make her a more popular Support and bring back some old Karma lovers.

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20 Comments

1000angrybees2 votes

I hate her tether. feels like it does no damage. I dont mind the mechanics behind it but it just doesnt feel good to use.

IGotScuttleCrabs2 votes

Yea that's exactly how I feel. I mean the mantra heal is great but the basic version just feels so lacking and disappointing.

Krigjer1 votes

I disagree, I think her tether is fine as is. Goodness forbid you use the rest of your kit to your advantage to land an ability, like popping shield to stay in range.

Karma's damage as support is worse than Sona, she doesn't really need anything to push her back into support popularity.

IGotScuttleCrabs1 votes

Problem I have is if you aren't damn near melee range you have to use all 3 abilities just to get the stun.

Krigjer1 votes

I fail to see how that's a problem? Karma's cds and mana costs are low enough to not matter.

IGotScuttleCrabs1 votes

Your right that for all intents and purpose, her kit is fine as is. But it's only that. Fine. This whole discusion goes to my original point that especially mid Karma feels like a Q bot.

Sure take her support and she has desion making like do I shield me or adc or speed up the jungler. Do I mantra Q for poke or save for RE to engage/disengage.

But outside of bot lane it's pretty my Q for fays as its her only actual damage.

kitcat3001 votes

Maybe just extend the tether break range a little, but other than that I think shes fine.

IGotScuttleCrabs1 votes

Honestly that's my favorite. You literally cannot use your W at max range. She pauses to cast then breaks immediately. Correct me if I'm wrong but Leblanc and Morg have longer tether channel ranges than their cast range..

Epilogue of Life1 votes

no. karma=cancer for all diving/bursting champs and her shield+speed boost has like 0 counterplay, and her Q has a slow that can compliment her tether pretty well...idk why you'd want more lol. Karma's a counterpick into people like Talon and Zed, and she's pretty annoying as is...

Vistha Kai1 votes

Do you even Lulu , bro?

Epilogue of Life1 votes

Ikr....all these bitch champs

Swampmajikk1 votes

the main problem i see with most karma players is they ONLY mantra her Q. her mantra W is amazing for baiting and for 1v1. like others said, you have to use her whole kit, not just Q.

Decrous1 votes

I do like karma how she is, however with her kit it's kinda like. Mid lane, ton's of poke but unreliable CC, easy waveclear of course. But when it comes to teamfights I feel like she's a bit... useless unless you get a 5 man empowered Q (which feels amazing btw.) and support karma is able to zone in lane and able to trade because of her shield, but mana problems could easily get in the way and put you and your adc in a bad position, but then it goes to the teamfights thing, feels even less useful than AP karma. Even with AOE shield. Shrug, she's in a weird place imo.

AsphodelNext1 votes

Tether break range(1000) is already past her cast range(650) and is pretty far already. It's the same tether range as LeBlanc's, except LeBlanc has a longer cast range(and is a skillshot to hit) and a tiny bit less than Morgana's ult (which still has the same cast range) So its range is pretty consistent with other tethers.

Karbuncle2 votes

Well their tethers come with slows while karma has to use her Q while her Q and W stop her movement! so when she uses the shield for a speed buff it really just makes up for the slowing her own spells give her,leblanc has VERY LONG blinks to stay in range and everyone and their mother agrees the skill shot isn't hard to hit with how misleadingly large the hitbox is AND Leblancs snare takes 1.5 secs while Karmas takes 2 secs AND leblancs snare lasts 1.5 secs at lv 1 while Karma with the most difficult tether to land last 1 sec and has to scale up when its a skill support maxes last,Morgana has a snare that lasts the LOTR franchise to make sure her tether finishes.

AsphodelNext1 votes

Maybe just make the Q and W have no cast time then? Allow Karma to apply the tether mid chase without slowing herself down, and also apply her slow.

Anonagon1 votes

I feel like her W's duration should scale down with AP. Right now it is always 2 seconds - if it were made to go down .25 seconds with every 150 AP, it would get to 1 second at 600 AP - easily achievable by mid lane Karma - and down to .75 seconds with 750 AP, the amount of AP you would have if you went full glass. This would significantly improve her lategame.

Karbuncle1 votes

My problems with her -a poke mage with 525 auto attack range Lulu and Lux have 550 Ori has 525 but has a damage passive with no requirements -No real passive ,A passive that's exists solely because they needlessly increased mantra's cooldown after taking away a stacking charge. Lulu Orianna and Lux (Utility Mages like Karma, have damage passives)Lissandra doesn't have a damage passive but has 4 damage moves -Her Q only has a 25% slow for 1.5 seconds and stops her movement so you really don't gain much distance -W stops her movement so that 1000 tether break range basically feels the same as the cast range cause karma gives them a start to run away -E she went from having a 280 .8 ratio shield that last for 5 seconds to a 240 .5 ratio that lasts for 4 seconds with a pitifully short speed buff although the speed buff effect lasts if the shield is destroyed unlike Jannas AD bonus effect(lux's shield is aoe without ult,shields for more, .1 higher ratio and last 3 or 6 seconds. lulus shield has .1 higher ratio,last 6 seconds instead of 4,gives your adc Pix,and a point and click damage option,Orianna's can do damage .1 LESS ratio,lasts for 4 seconds but has .6 less second cooldown at max cdr and a static 60 mana cost and bonus defenses.

Karbuncle1 votes

Things that I want to happen but never will -550 attack range -On hit magic damage passive -Q can cast while moving,scaling slow in amount or time -W can cast while moving -E last 6 seconds and if she casts shield on ally she gets a small shield for herself(I think this is fair as the only shield worse than hers is half a lux shield that is automatically aoe and doesn't give damage like the other mage supports) and so she can stay with her ally,Most Melees are naturally faster or have dashes,and adcs have blinks and/or build MS buffing items while Karmas options are Mobility Boots/Ludens/Lich Bane

Only Play Darius1 votes

She needs hard CC. Make it so that her mantra's tether stuns instead of roots.

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