May I Remind Everyone That This is Preseason

Meep Man·Dec 3, 2014·53 votes·3,171 views

Crazy things will happen. Things will need fixing and tuning up. Not everything will be perfect and thats why it is the Preseason. Leave feedback but do not rage and say how stupid the balance team is when this is the only time they have the ability to make drastic changes to the game. So please, stop raging and leave actual feedback and not "OMG Rito too stoopid 2 design gam!"

(and no, I am not talking about champion balance, I am talking about the jungle and all preseason changes)

49 Comments

2pudge1cupDec 3, 201416 votes

Riot can test drastic changes in season on both PBE and their internal test server.

MatthevvDec 3, 201412 votes

No they cannot. Riot gets more useful data from one hour after launching to live servers than what they get from months of pbe/internal testing.

Pvt Yong TaiDec 3, 201414 votes

Some people aren't here to improve the game, they're here to play it. Not everyone wants to be a "tester", they just want to play a game or two of league in the hour of free time they have in their day (or week). That's why PBE exists.

KingsgraveDec 3, 20147 votes

Some people aren't here to improve the game, they're here to play it. Not everyone wants to be a "tester", they just want to play a game or two of league in the hour of free time they have in their day (or week). That's why PBE exists.

With how the community is though, you can't have the PBE being drastic testing and changes without fan sites reporting it like its legit changes and without redditors just freaking out like they always do over every little thing.

MatthevvDec 8, 20141 votes

Well to bad for you people. The preseason has and always will be the time for the players to test big changes to the game. I have played since season 1 and it has always been this way. All of you new whining kiddies need to learn some respect.

Pvt Yong TaiDec 8, 20141 votes

I'll just take that and assume you simply needed to vent a little for whatever reason.

GorszDec 4, 20141 votes

Why isnt there a WarWick hotfix?

Why leave him broken as shit when its obvious he needs nerfed ASAP?

Kuroi86Dec 3, 20142 votes

Which they do. Time has proven though that both PBE and internal servers aren't enough. No matter how much testing they do, within weeks of it going live, players will find things that Riot never thought of. Riot does and continues to test as much as they can on PBE and internal servers, but there simply no way to predict everything that will happen once it hits live servers.

CJ Entus CoCoaDec 4, 20141 votes

hmm, never woulda thought a true damage on autos would proc warwicks already broken ult

Kuroi86Dec 4, 20142 votes

Back when the changes were being tested, the true damage was dealt over a dot. And from the looks of it, they are changing it back to that dot, which should take care of a lot of concerns.

GorszDec 4, 20141 votes

"doing things Riot never thought of"

Like... picking WW.. buying new jungler item and pressing R?

Riot even knew that WW was going to be nuts thats why he got a preemptive "baby" nerf, so that means they were well aware and still let him go as is.

Kuroi86Dec 4, 20141 votes

120 champs and lord knows how many items.

NO, Riot cannot predict EVERYTHING.

GorszDec 4, 20142 votes

Um.. once again.... Riot even made a comment in the patch about WW and why he received a baby nerf.

They KNEW about WW. So let me get this straight.. none of them thought to actually use his ultimate in testing with their new jungler item?????

Get real

Kuroi86Dec 4, 20141 votes

You have a link?

AnzellDec 4, 20141 votes

I agree, besides that what possesses them to keep making items that infinitely grow stronger, like Nasus Q too.

AbodyHUN666Dec 4, 20141 votes

Internal tests can only find the most major bugs and effects of changes, PBE would last so long they would have to test preseason during the LCS. I actually like testing what works and what doesn't during the preseason. It's like I'm doing badly and I don't even feel so bad for myself since I just try new things.

Pvt Yong TaiDec 3, 201410 votes

Yeah, it's preseason, but unless we yell and scream and complain and make a huge noise, there's a chance Riot will not see/ignore our pleas and all of this will go straight to Season 5. So yes, it's annoying at times with everyone crying at once, but I'd say this is a necessary evil. The Dragon is too snowbally, Jungle items are in imbalance, Top lane is nearly useless to the team without a teleport (because of Dragon being too important), Laser Towers do such shit damage it's not even funny, Kalista is wreaking havoc with her broken team mechanics, Azir still has shit tons of bugs, Cassiopeia is still really shitty, Knock-ups are appearing on over 75% of newly released champions (out of the latest 16, even more if you count Rek'sai), mobility is going crazy with Vel'koz being the ONLY champion in the past 16 new releases without mobility in his kit, the lore got rekt, and there are still way too many gameplay bugs they haven't bothered to fix.

So yes, there is PLENTY to complain about right now, and it's not all rage. You should be happy there's so much backlash. It means we the common people actually care enough to lobby for the betterment of the game (like how American democracy is supposed to work lol but that's for a different time).

Hyrum GraffDec 3, 20143 votes

So yes, there is PLENTY to complain about right now, and it's not all rage. You should be happy there's so much backlash.

Complaints and backlash are forms of feedback and criticism. They serve a useful function, but there are more useful ways to give feedback and criticize.

RoyaiChaosDec 4, 20141 votes

Dragon is not to snowbally, do the math. Jungle items are imbalance because they were just released, and are still be constantly changed. Dragon was always important (do the maths). I agree Lasers could be buffed. Kalista actually has the lowest win rate right now. You act like Riot wants Azir to have shit ton of bugs. Cass is being changed still. What is wrong with knock-ups? I wouldn't call Braum mobile, but I agree there has been more mobility, I don't really see the problem.

This isn't about people complaining about specific things with constructive feedback, this is about people saying "Rito can't balance their game" without doing any research.

SolaxoDec 3, 20147 votes

I don't care if it's a preseason, I don't play ranked. I want a playable game. Jesus.

not a starburstDec 4, 20141 votes

This. I enjoy the new diversity in picks and stuff, but the banlist just got a lot more crowded.

MatthevvDec 3, 20146 votes

This. So many people are just whining about the balance state of the changes instead of actually providing useful insight about the health of the gameplay changes.

Numbers can be changed, something be OP or UP isn't what matters.

Shifty RiftyDec 3, 20145 votes

You know whats funny, the jungle IS STUPID now, i main supp mid jung in s4, now I dont even say I play jungle. I mained sejuani rammus eve as my jungs, eve is just irrelevant now no dmg no sustain squishy as hell pretty much unplayable.

The tanks in this current jungle have ZERO chance and I mean ZERO atleast before when I had quil coat it actually provided some clear time and sustain, now YOU CANT EVEN clear 2 buffs without going back because of the ridiculous price of machete only allowing you to buy 2 pots, ok so in that time a fighter jungler has cleared just about every camp and bought something with dmg, now you have 2 options both which are ridiculously underwhelming you can gank lanes while being severely underleveled compared to lanes or you can try and farm to gain xp and items, meanwhile the enemy fighter jungle with better clear times can stay more relevant clearing 3x the jungle faster and ganking more than you can if you try to farm your still down cs and even if you pull off a succesful gank their jungle can gank more and has literally farmed more while you were ganking, either way you are ridiculously behind and mostly useless until about the 60min mark, RIP tank jungle

Meep ManDec 3, 20143 votes

I completely agree. Although I disagree that all tanks can't jungle (see Rammus with Gift of the Toadstool), I agree that I wish some of them could come back if they buffed the sustain or nerfed the damage in the jungle. For example, I wish I could jungle someone like Hecarim or Nautilus without pressing Tab and seeing how the enemy jungler has now ganked before me, got items before me, and is a higher level than me.

SmokinSickStyleDec 3, 20144 votes

You forgot the Dragon, he's part of the jungle too, if one team takes the first buff, they gain an impressive advantage towards damage, which translates into tank being able to tank less.

s4 i saw LOTS of tank junglers like Rammus, poor fellow, he can barely clear the jungle and when he can gank (Which is also a problem with general low clear champs, in fact like 80% of the junglers do one side of jungle than rush that goddamn trailblazer for sustain+clear) he's, as you said, underleveled, pretty much all the time when i play jungle solo laners are like always 2 levels ahead, also, the lack of early pressure into lanes makes sure that snowballing early monsters like Riven have much an easier time than before.

junglerboy16Dec 3, 20143 votes

Yeah, I've seen WAY more Riven and co. bullying lanes really hard. It feels especially strange coming off of a hyper carry late game meta.

RoyaiChaosDec 4, 20141 votes

I'm pretty sure last I checked, Rammus has still been rocking a pretty nice win rate. Btw, 8% is not a lot. If you have 100 ad, it's less than a long sword.

MrSexyHoboDec 4, 20141 votes

you have 300 ad? its a free pickaxe. your playing zed? free 40 damage late game. your playing a tank? free 6 damage late game.

so now your tank has to tank more damage and they get almost nothing in return. meanwhile its a really big buff to adc's who already do more damage on auto attacks then some mages can do with a full combo.

RoyaiChaosDec 5, 20141 votes

By the time late game rolls around, the other team will have multiple chances to get dragon and catch up.

HayaishiDec 3, 20144 votes

But Riot is dumb when it comes to balancing.

JasiwelDec 3, 20142 votes

IMO, Dragon is too easy to kill for what it gives you. I feel like this should have been taken into account, especially given how it lasts forever. They really need to buff his resilience or improve his attack patterns to be more obstructive. He needs to knock back more or have burst from time to time.

Conus25Dec 4, 20142 votes

OMG Rito too stoopid 2 design gam!

Kojiro SasakiDec 4, 20142 votes

Crazy things will happen. Things will need fixing and tuning up. Not everything will be perfect and thats why it is the Preseason. Leave feedback but do not rage and say how stupid the balance team is when this is the only time they have the ability to make drastic changes to the game. So please, stop raging and leave actual feedback and not "OMG Rito too stoopid 2 design gam!"

(and no, I am not talking about champion balance, I am talking about the jungle and all preseason changes)

My problem isn't the balance of their changes, my problem is the direction they're taking. They made the game even more snowball heavy. First team that gets dragon gets a huge advantage, and from there it becomes even easier to control it with the flat bonus obtained from said dragon that never goes away. Snowball. Then you've got the new "portal" item that tanks are going to be building a lot. Lane pushing. Then we've got new baron which buffs minions and is now even more of a pushing tool.

What does this mean for the game? 15-20 minute games with extreme snowball with no chance of a comeback. I love watching competitive games because you never know if you can really count a team out. Now you do. Teams can no longer play defensively and capitalize on enemy mistakes. They'll just be rolled over. This is Riots intention, so to that effect its working. Doesn't mean I like it! (Don't like hyper-carry cass either caugh)

AbodyHUN666Dec 4, 20142 votes

the first dragon buff is getting nerfed on PBE. Baron was always intended to be used for a last push, before now teams couldn't finish games with it because enemy had a ziggs. It might be tweaked though. When Riot says they want to lower snowball they are going to do it.

RoyaiChaosDec 4, 20141 votes

"huge advantage" Uhhhh no, about 16 ad at most for an adc.

Fed by Snu SnuDec 4, 20142 votes

People aren't getting crazy because things are OP.

Pantheon and WW are getting literally gutted.

It's not that they don't deserve a nerf, but they don't deserve to be gutted.

Do you know what happens to champions that get butchered? They don't see play for over 2 years, if ever. YEARS. Then they get a stupid rework that fixes nothing and barely makes a difference.

UltimateKimeraDec 4, 20141 votes

Urgot : You called?

RoyaiChaosDec 4, 20141 votes

Pantheon is not getting gutted, he (as far as I remember) was never too reliant on as.

1 4m 4 n00bDec 4, 20141 votes

Top lane Pantheon relies on auto attacks for his dueling potential. Jungle Pantheon needs attackspeed for better clears.

TRINHSANEDec 3, 20141 votes

looking for the s5 meta? come check out what im cooking. diamond 4

http://www.twitch.tv/mrtrinhsane

UPfreelyDec 3, 20141 votes

It would just be nice to have changes that didn't require neutering of certain champions... Warwick Cassiopeia Olaf Alot of the jungle changes seem tailored exclusively for warwick and now they gotta gut him...

ULTRAF0RCEDec 4, 20143 votes

well he is supposed to be reworked because his kit is slightly unhealthy

UPfreelyDec 4, 20141 votes

well yeah... look at his kit.... he basically has 1 spell and an ult. Let's just pray he doesn't get stashu'd. No champion deserves that. (except maybe teemo)

not a starburstDec 4, 20141 votes

his kit is slightly unhealthy I'm sorry, have you played the new Warwick with the new items? It's not merely unhealthy, it's downright broken. Sure, I'm terrible at him, and therefore don't win all my games, but anyone who's actually good at him basically can't lose unless the other team also picks Warwick or unless they're all MLG. He's basically a permaban on ranked and draft.

GorszDec 4, 20141 votes

Um... why does Riot expect us to be beta testers for them?

What is the point of "internal testing" and PBE ?

AnzellDec 4, 20141 votes

Most unbalanced patch I've ever played

DrogmyreDec 4, 20142 votes

Most unbalanced patch I've ever played

League of Cleavers, Xin Zhao (and others) release, basically the entirety of S2, and oh, the entirety of beta called. They said you ain't seen nothin yet.

NotSoScotiaDec 4, 20141 votes

Riots said before that they basically ignore PBE feedback and only look for bugs, but most of the bugs that are in the feedback are ignored in the process and they repeatedly screw their game almost everything thats broken the game or broken within the game in the last year was called out and blatantly ignored i dont blame a balance team or champion designers or anything along those lines for those things, you cant know things for sure, i get that, but whoever isnt going through PBE feedback needs to be starting months ago

terry smiles259Dec 5, 20141 votes

i have gotten so sick of the new map that i would rather play smite jungling is just terribly under powered please fix this riot i never jungle anymore last game i played with a khaz jungle he went top and stopped jungling because he died 3 times to frogger the map is pretty cool though just pls hurry up i want to have a fun jungle again