Can we actually nerf Gnar? Worlds top lane feels so boring seeing Gnar blind pick all day long

The Deckowner·Oct 1, 2016·50 votes·2,757 views

This champion, from the design, is to dominate any top lane match up and yet still be super strong in teamfight. How is that healthy design?

I am so sick of seeing Gnar blind picked into any match up top lane in pro play. I am sick of watching him shit on every top laner. No top laner counters him, no top laner goes even against him, every top laner loses 1v1 against him. And he doesn't even use resource, and is ranged. Why is this even allowed?

102 Comments

EcchiOtakuTMOct 1, 201618 votes

Uh, gnar doesn't dominate everyone, kennen and rumble are quite particularly good into gnar. Also that's just worlds, normally you can go into gnar with ranged top laners easily, while melee just a skill matchup due to him not having in-kit sustain as long as you don't have a horribly weak early champ or a champ without a skill over 400 range you still have ways to punish.

Another thing gnar only has power in premades+TP plays, he's too unreliable to actually hit with nerfs effectively without dumpstering him.

FalconPawwwwnchOct 1, 20166 votes

He does have sustain tho

Every time he turns to mega gnar he gains HP

WHen he turns back to mini gnar he doesn't lose the HP he gained, effectively making it sustain

TheorcheroOct 2, 20163 votes

{quoted}

He does have sustain tho

Every time he turns to mega gnar he gains HP

WHen he turns back to mini gnar he doesn't lose the HP he gained, effectively making it sustain

He gains very small flat HP (Net increase when changing into mini gnar), his real source of "sustain" in mega gnar is his increased health regen, iirc.

RivuoOct 1, 201613 votes

i mean no offence to GypsyLord but every champ he created has fucked up balance issues right now..

Jinx jhin gnar ekko :XXXX

GULAG 4 UOct 1, 20166 votes

Well Jinx is simply overturned, and it's prolly the same thing for Jhin too. The last two are pretty much broken.

EcchiOtakuTMOct 1, 20169 votes

No jinx's counters are weak. Due to it she gets a free ticket into mid/late game.

She's actually pretty fine, but if there's nothing to punish her early that's strong she gets excited literally.

dominusxOct 1, 20162 votes

exactly

LordGeovanniOct 2, 20161 votes

Its because every thing is no offense to everyone that people get away with their champions not being balanced. You cant tell some one champion their champion is designed or balanced like shit cause they worked hard on it. Its not matter if if you worked hard on it or not its a matter of how the champion fits in the game and interacts with other champions

CrazyBigfoot28Oct 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

i mean no offence to GypsyLord but every champ he created has fucked up balance issues right now..

Jinx jhin gnar ekko :XXXX

so true

PermabannedGarenOct 1, 20169 votes

Gnar is broken.

Why is he allowed to be both a very safe ranged lane bully top laner as well as a huge team fight tank? It's bullshit, lol.

18 NAKED COWB0YSOct 1, 20168 votes

rushes frozen mallet. misses every ulti q and e's randomly. god forbid i go for one creep he lands 3 aa's and i lost 1/4th of my hp. interactive and fun. well designed and interesting, :))))))))))

cant touch him or run from him. cant fight him or push against him or get ganked or just outplayed by his aa's

SolitairOct 1, 20162 votes

I mean...you did let him "rush" an expensive/inefficient first buy without punishing or interfering,

Only Play DariusOct 1, 20168 votes

Cancerous overloaded champ that builds pure tank and melts you from range with permaslow as well. But people would rather complain about Yasuo

The DeckownerOct 1, 20163 votes

that is mainly because gnar isn't played as often as yasuo in solo queue, but he surely had been dominating pro play.

TheorcheroOct 2, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8acWg7tc,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2016-10-01T04:55:59.402+0000)

Cancerous overloaded champ that builds pure tank and melts you from range with permaslow as well. But people would rather complain about Yasuo

Yasuo is also pretty cancer in his own right though.

athameOct 1, 20167 votes

Gnar isn't broken lmfao, you severely underestimate the skill it takes to play him well, and as such at lower levels he will never be a threat.

WoonStruckOct 1, 20166 votes

Bully
Ranged
Extremely safe
Poke
Lots of utility
Scales better than most top laners
One of the best teamfighters in the game
One of the best split-pushers in the game
Significant mixed damage
Doesn't need to build damage to do said mixed damage
Essentially only gated by CDs, which aren't that long to begin with, and his main pressure in lane comes purely from auto attacks followed up by Q to proc Hyper so you don't even take significant minion damage since there's no commitment.

Tell me what he doesn't have. List one thing that he's missing. He even has good AD and AP scaling, if you really want to count those on a tank.

They literally cannot make a tank champion that functions better independent of numbers.

Akali is SO HOTOct 1, 201612 votes

True damage :^)

The DeckownerOct 1, 20166 votes

%hp 3hit magic dmg on an ad ranged tank with built.in attackspeed buff kinda is true damage i guess? XD

RyuyahOct 2, 20161 votes

summoner 14

EcchiOtakuTMOct 1, 20164 votes

Sure if you list all of his strengths it might seem strong, but he still doesn't have in-kit sustain which can prove fatal for a bad trade, not to mention his power is from pre-made TP plays. Lastly he's unreliable, unless you're premade you aren't going to actually have gnar's potential unlocked.

He still treats most match-ups as skill-based too, sure he never really has a horrible matchup but he doesn't just simply dominant anyone. There's a lot of ways to punish a gnar, especially since again he has no in-kit sustain.

TheorcheroOct 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Sure if you list all of his strengths it might seem strong, but he still doesn't have in-kit sustain which can prove fatal for a bad trade, not to mention his power is from pre-made TP plays. Lastly he's unreliable, unless you're premade you aren't going to actually have gnar's potential unlocked.

He still treats most match-ups as skill-based too, sure he never really has a horrible matchup but he doesn't just simply dominant anyone. There's a lot of ways to punish a gnar, especially since again he has no in-kit sustain.

If you manage to take a bad trade as Gnar you are a fucking monkey and deserve to be punished accordingly.

EcchiOtakuTMOct 2, 20161 votes

So basically insult every player who's dealt with gnars by abusing if he goes into melee mode and dodging his skills while trading....

Ranged champs easily deal, while melee champs again, is a skill matchup. If you simply let gnar bulldozer you or try to trade vs his range mode+frozen mallet ofc you're gonna have a bad time. However if you take the time to realize it's actually easier to trade when he's about to go melee mode you'll fair a lot better.

DracocrashOct 1, 20163 votes

sustain.

WoonStruckOct 2, 20161 votes

Every time he goes mega, he gets 70 - 801 health, not to mention the extra HP regen he gets. It adds up to a lot more than most top laners get.

Most top laners atm don't have sustain anyway, and Feast+refillable, along with some taking vampirism, means inherent sustain doesn't mean much either way.

Lack of mana as a resource actually means his sustain is quite good. Significantly better than most tanks.

You can be disappointed in yourself now for feeling like his sustain isn't better than many tanks, because it definitely is significantly better.

DracocrashOct 2, 20161 votes

and to compensate for the extra hp regen as melee he gets lowered regen when ranged which is what he is majority of the time.

Let me give you some number comparisons mini gnar hp regen at level 1- 2.5(+6 when mega) Malphite HP regen at levl 1- 7.0
Zac hp regen at level 1 - 7.92 Considering he has to switch between forms his mini/mega forms his regen is roughly the same.

ALSO the bonus health is lost because he retains the same hp% after going back into mini gnar, he does not keep most of the bonus hp he gets.

You can be disappointed in yourself now because his sustain is not significantly better than most tanks, and you brought up moot points without doing any research yourself.

Nik NikersonOct 1, 20162 votes

Has Gnar been picked more than once so far at worlds? I've missed a few games, so I could be wrong, but I've seen way more Rumble than Gnar so far.

The DeckownerOct 1, 20162 votes

Gnar is played a lot, Rumble is just a op pick in general in 6.18 since Shen and GP get big nerfs, and he is good against most top laner not named gnar.

Nik NikersonOct 1, 20161 votes

You are correct. I just checked, he's been played 4 times so far.

The DeckownerOct 1, 20162 votes

banned a lot too

GayFluffyUnicornOct 1, 20161 votes

GP is still strong and i don't understand why he hasn'tbeen picked nor banned so far. All i've seen from rumble so far is being useless except ONE good ult.

The DeckownerOct 1, 20161 votes

Rumble lives for the ult.

GP can get rekt in many match ups, and now he can't clear waves as often with ult it means it is so easy to snoball out of control if he dies to a gank.

WoonStruckOct 2, 20161 votes

Rumble is used because his ult invalidates the majority of push advantages a team may hope to have early.

On top of that, he can force good back timings for himself; denying them to someone has decided a few games.

His ult is much, much stronger, albeit only in the way trundle's pillar is, vs immobile teams, which are common this tourney.

In short, rumble effectively neutralizes lane pressure, no matter how bad his match-up is.

LadyRenlyOct 1, 20162 votes

We can't, if we so much as touch Gnar all the gnar mains come out of the woodworks claiming Gnar is so underpowered and near unplayable and out of meta.

BoulderoxOct 1, 20162 votes

{quoted}

We can't, if we so much as touch Gnar all the gnar mains come out of the woodworks claiming Gnar is so underpowered and near unplayable and out of meta.

Aatrox experience our pain you little rat bitch... ruining the only item that made him somewhat decent item 3022

JefftiffyOct 1, 20162 votes

You do realize Gnar only dominates because of his interaction with item 3022 . Remove that from the picture and Gnar is actually pretty healthy. It's part of the reason I don't like building it.

Seriously. The way to nerf Gnar without touching him is to rework item 3022 . It works way too well on very specific champs but is garbage on anyone else. 700 HP, 30 AD. 40% slow on melee or 30% on ranged for 1.5s. That's what it is now. Quite honestly it should be an active effect. Something like AAs decrease MS by 50% or 35% for 1.5s as a 5s active, but the hp is now 800 and AD is 20.

The DeckownerOct 1, 20165 votes

Even in S5 when FM was considered garbage and Gnar wasn't building it, he is still top pick/ban status.

SolitairOct 1, 20161 votes

Smart Gnar were building it... in worlds series too.

TheorcheroOct 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Smart Gnar were building it... in worlds series too.

Nah, smart gnar's were wrecking shit with old Steraks/Zekes before they renamed and then remade it. It gave MS, HP, CDR, AD, and aoe lifesteal.

Shit was actually pretty good on Gnar.

Shadow HazardOct 1, 20162 votes

Jayce, rumble, and kennen I would think are more popular from what I have seen so far.

TheBearJew09Oct 1, 20162 votes

Lissandra Jayce Kayle Chogath Pantheon

I think any of the above champs would be viable vs gnar. Gnar is a safe champ for pros to use in top lane. If he doesn't lose lane he will match or beat most top laners, but I think its also harder for a Gnar to snowball.

55976771DEL2Oct 1, 20162 votes

You can play Irelia into Gnar and with some experience you will win the lane but there's another problem. Gnar is too unforgivable champion, go 0/16 and you will be still useful in teamfights because of stun and stupid slow build.

LuggOct 1, 20161 votes

It's the same problem is every lane. There is always a "safe" pick that has no hard counters. Gnar top, Lee Sin jungle, Ahri mid, MF bot, Blitz support, etc.

The DeckownerOct 1, 20162 votes

Blitz gets hard countered by hard engage support like Alistair braum Leona. MF goes even in most match ups, which is to be expected since ADCs don't usually counter each other unless there is a huge difference in aa range. Ahri gets fucked by LB after the charm change. Jungler's don't lane, so there is no such thing call counter match up.

Brain Errör 404Oct 1, 20161 votes

As an ahri main... I disagree. Still a very skill based match up. If they are even on items, ~~ahri actually does more overall damage and has the better outplay potential as well.~~ I want to let people see how dumb I am for putting that. Eh em~! If they are even on items, Ahri has the better outplay potential since she can dodge most of LB's damage. She does not straight up do more damage than LB.

The DeckownerOct 1, 20162 votes

Ahri's main damage abilities are all skillshots, LB's main damage ability is a point and click nuke.

Brain Errör 404Oct 1, 20162 votes

LB's w and e are both skill shots as well. What are you talking about? LB has no point and click nuke unless she's extremely fed.

LuggOct 1, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8acWg7tc,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2016-10-01T04:22:56.122+0000)

Blitz gets hard countered by hard engage support like Alistair braum Leona.

He gets countered if he pulls them instead of the ADC.

MF goes even in most match ups, which is to be expected since ADCs don't usually counter each other unless there is a huge difference in aa range.

Going even means she is a safe pick.

Ahri gets fucked by LB after the charm change.

Uh, no. Anytime LB flashes in, you can point blank charm her and she dies. Every single matchup that Ahri doesn't have an advantage in is a skill matchup. That means it's even. Ahri has no real counter at all mid right now, so she is always a safe pick.

Jungler's don't lane, so there is no such thing call counter match up.

Please tell me you aren't being serious. Try playing FIddlesticks, Amumu, etc against an Eve or Shaco who invades you after Red.

The DeckownerOct 1, 20161 votes

Alistar you pulled my adc? I guess I just wanted combo you and your adc while my adc free fires. Most adc is a safe pick against most other adc, due to range. Corki 55% win rate against ahri, no counter? There is so many ways for a jungler to avoid invade from enemy, simply by having good jungle lagging and vision coverage negates any possibility of invade.

LuggOct 2, 20161 votes

Good luck having your ADC free fire if hooked by a blitz. He/she will be airborne from the blitz punch. Kind of hard to attack when you are in the air. Plus, as soon as blitz lands from the Ali knockup, he will just ult and your ADC is basically dead.

55% win rate one week into this patch. Let's let the stats even out a bit before we go overboard. Especially considering Corki had like a 40% win rate against her last patch.