I'm down for nerfing exhaust, but barrier might need a small buff.

Tychusfindlay919·Feb 4, 2017·11 votes·1,020 views

Maybe a little better scaling? Exhaust nerf on its own won't make barrier appealing. The barrier values are stuck in a time when damage amplification wasn't off the charts.

11 Comments

AhristocatsFeb 4, 20175 votes

barrier needs an other effect than just a shield

Doctor34Feb 4, 20172 votes

I agree, may be 10-30 bonus armor and magic resist during the shield.

HibekiFeb 4, 20173 votes

The problem with buffing barrier is ADC's will take it over Heal.

The thing with ADC's was that they took flash ignite, then barrier got buffed a ridiculous amount so there were 2+ barriers on the team. Then heal got buffed a huge amount so there were FIVE HEALS on each time, then a week later they nerfed it and people went back to barrier, then back to heal again when barrier got nerfed again.

All this will do is make people take barrier again. The problem isn't barrier is weak, the problem is exhaust is FUCKING BROKEN

Imagine, lowest cd summoner spell, Press F on someone and they cant do jack shit for 3 seconds AND take increased damage.

It does TOO MUCH. Exhaust IS overpowered. If it nerfs attack speed it shouldnt nerf overall damage as well.

Against assassins you should be taking barrier for the instant shield, but people take exhaust to half their burst.

ZephyrDrakeFeb 4, 20172 votes

{quoted}

The problem with buffing barrier is ADC's will take it over Heal.

The thing with ADC's was that they took flash ignite, then barrier got buffed a ridiculous amount so there were 2+ barriers on the team. Then heal got buffed a huge amount so there were FIVE HEALS on each time, then a week later they nerfed it and people went back to barrier, then back to heal again when barrier got nerfed again.

All this will do is make people take barrier again. The problem isn't barrier is weak, the problem is exhaust is FUCKING BROKEN

Imagine, lowest cd summoner spell, Press F on someone and they cant do jack shit for 3 seconds AND take increased damage.

It does TOO MUCH. Exhaust IS overpowered. If it nerfs attack speed it shouldnt nerf overall damage as well.

Against assassins you should be taking barrier for the instant shield, but people take exhaust to half their burst.

people take exhaust against assassins because barrier does NOTHING against them. Assassins still blow you up even if you use barrier more often than not. That's why people don't take barrier over exhaust. What it's supposed to do it does it REALLY poorly to the point that heal and exhaust just does it job better and always will. You want to know what supports took before exhaust? they took heal and when ADCs started taking heal themselves was when supports started taking exhaust since 2 heals on the same lane is just terrible and there really isn't another SS that goes well on supports other than ignite.

Barrier is WEAK, do not try to blame exhaust for barrier being as terrible as it is. Barrier needs to be buffed if you want people to take it over anything. People are picking every single other summoner before even looking at it and they will more than likely just take heal in place of exhaust since heal actually gives a secondary benefit vs Barrier really shitty single one

DerfelFeb 4, 20172 votes

Damage a complete overhaul. Powercreeping shields to compensate for powercreeping damage is stupid.

LankPantsFeb 4, 20171 votes

IMO Barrier should give some Armour and MR based of your level for as long as the shield holds. In addition to this it should always be the first shield to get hit in layered situations to stop Naut running Barrier, popping W and protecting the stat buff. What this would mean is that if I run barrier into an assassin I can use it to shield their burst even if the shield isn't big enough to stop the burst by itself, at least as long as I pop the shield on a heavy burst move.

NineTailedMysticFeb 4, 20171 votes

I'd say make Barrier last as long as Ignite as a true counter to it.

VoraciousXFeb 4, 20171 votes

I personally don't think barrier is bad as it is. I run it every time I play Lux for sure. It's really nice to have them go all in on you thinking they can pick up a kill before you Q them, only to realize you popped your barrier by the time they went in on you, you still have health left and then Q them under tower so they take tower shots as well and die as you spam laugh. Lux Lux Lux

I'm sure there are other situations to take barrier in that are nice as well. I don't think it should give MR and armor though, that's just adding damage mitigation on top of damage mitigation. I wouldn't mind if summoner 21 summoner 1 got reworked into one summoner with both effects though. I think that'd make it a pretty useful pick up for a lot of champions who are meant to engage.

Asayake 5150glowFeb 4, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I personally don't think barrier is bad as it is. I run it every time I play Lux for sure. It's really nice to have them go all in on you thinking they can pick up a kill before you Q them, only to realize you popped your barrier by the time they went in on you, you still have health left and then Q them under tower so they take tower shots as well and die as you spam laugh.

I'm sure there are other situations to take barrier in that are nice as well. I don't think it should give MR and armor though, that's just adding damage mitigation on top of damage mitigation. I wouldn't mind if got reworked into one summoner with both effects though. I think that'd make it a pretty useful pick up for a lot of champions who are meant to engage.

Problem is, most of the times take Exhaust and you would've done just as well/better unless your opponent is too long ranged to be exhausted.

VoraciousXFeb 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Problem is, most of the times take Exhaust and you would've done just as well/better unless your opponent is too long ranged to be exhausted.

The reason I take barrier over exhaust is because they can react before exhaust and it requires a target, and it's more difficult to exhaust>Q than barrier>Q because barrier acts instantly whereas it takes time to prep exhaust. There are a lot of situations I take exhaust over barrier in the mid lane, but Lux is when I want to bait them into a false sense of security in their tower diving kill pattern in order to change that tower dive into a kill for me, not use exhaust maybe too late because I had to click(or mouse over) an enemy who I'm trying to stay AWAY from(similar to why I don't like ignite on Lux). It's awkward to use and the only reason it works is because of the fact that you can use it before a fight to mitigate damage(and defenses) to an extreme degree while you're still super healthy. With barrier I can set my bait and use an extra ability with JUST the press of a button. Heal could work the same way, but barrier shields for more, and I'm likely gonna back anyways AFTER I get that kill, so why give me health and move speed after the fact.

To me exhaust is more of a pre-emptive thing. I exhaust before the fight starts to get a damage advantage and kill them before it ends, or turn around something when I'm unable to use any other ability, for example when stunned to a wall by a Vayne to reduce her attack speed and damage at the same time to where she does little to none before I get out of said stun, and destroy her because that stun is what gave her the advantage, exhaust gave me the advantage because her stun was pointless. I use barrier near the end of a fight to bait the enemy into a false sense of security.

Let's not forget flash plays exist either. Barrier is a lot better at counteracting those than exhaust.

If you buff barrier to have overloaded stats on top of a shield, you're doing the same thing you did to exhaust. If barrier got ANY kind of buff, I'd say remove Cleanse and add that effect on top of it. You're no longer giving excess stats, and you're making two summoner spells that don't get much use more useful instead of one. Not to mention this opens up barrier to being MORE than just a reactive thing. You can use it for engages as well with cleanse since you can use it to also break CC after engaging(Not to mention I can only imagine how many people would be using this vs Blitz or Thresh hooks).