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I noticed something funny about gold income

Eedat··14 votes·7,256 views

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.goldEarned&order=ascend

(Sort by gold earned. Link doesnt for whatefer reason)

I noticed that support income acfually rivals that of a bunch of junglers and top laners. Keep in mind this is even after the support income nerf. A bunch of supports are right up there or are within 1k.

Isnt that a bit much? A lot of these champs average well over 100 farm more (jungle farm is a bit more tricky) yet they have as much gold as a support? I dunno, something seems not quite right about that. This is even after the support income nerfs. I'm curious what this looked like before.

Lets take a look at Brand. Mid Brand averages 160 cs and 11.5k gold. Support Brand averages 40 cs and.....only 1.5k less?

Keep in mind the cost of the role has gone down as well. Sightstone is given for free on your gold generation item. The gold generation items are actually decent when completed. The rest of your itemization is dirt cheap. No more green wards or oracles elixers to buy.

I mean I get trying to make support more impactful, but was forcing solo lane gold into the role the best way of doing it? Is solo lane gold plus dirt cheap itemization a bit too much? How much is too much?

31 Comments

Akali is SO HOT5 votes

Of course the premier PvE the champion is right at the top of the rankings Tryndamere

DuskDaUmbreon4 votes

160cs sounds pretty bad for a champion with solid waveclear, just saying...

So you might wanna compare length of games instead of just cs/gold.

And, let's not forget: Brand "support" is a kill lane. He's easily getting twice as many kills as he is mid.

Eedat5 votes

Those numbers do factor in game length. Thats what an average does lol

And, let's not forget: Brand "support" is a kill lane. He's easily getting twice as many kills as he is mid.

Not trying to be a dick, but are you that lazy that you cant even check the link I provided? Your claim is 100% false. Mid Brand averages 7.2 kills and 7.8 assists. Support Brand averages 6 kills and 9 assists.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

That's average per game, not average CS/min or whatever.

If Brand's average game in mid is only 20 minutes, while in support it averages closer to 35-40, he'd have way more gold per average game as support than as mid, because the game is significantly longer.

So, again, make sure you have the ratio, and not just the average.

Eedat5 votes

But the average per game has average game time factored in. Thats the point of an average.

I'm still curious to hear how 6 is "easily twice as many" as 7.2

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

I ended up being wrong about that. Personal experience fucked it up a bit.

And, yes, it does. But what it does not account for is if the average game time for Brand mid is lower than for Brand support.

Eedat4 votes

But what it does not account for is if the average game time for Brand mid is lower than for Brand support.

Proof? Are you really under the impression that it would change average game time by any significant amount?

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Quite possibly, yes.

Eedat2 votes

I mean you said support Brand gets twice as many kills as mid Brand even with data easily available to know thats incorrect. Why do you think another baseless conclusion is any better? What proof do you have?

Teridax683 votes

I don't think it's really fair to compare the gold income of supports versus non-supports when supports as a class are specifically meant to not take CS. I sure as hell don't want to return to the days where supports had only a fraction of the gold income of other classes, and I think we need to collectively accept the fact that supports do deserve at least some amount of extra gold income to compensate for their forced lack of CS.

In addition to this, if I were to take issue with supports, it would not be with their gold income so much as the cheapness of support itemization: personally, I would actually really like it if supports had the same gold income as any other class, because it means supports wouldn't have to rely on bullshit like excessively high base damage or overly cheap and abusable items in order to function. However, as that kind of tradeoff would imply, this should mean that support itemization should increase in cost to reflect gains in income, and currently it doesn't seem to be the case. On the flipside, many mage supports are still given very high bases when that kind of crutch is becoming increasingly unnecessary, as the state of itemization on champions like Brand, Vel'Koz, Zilean, Zyra, etc. seems to indicate AP items are pretty affordable to supports now. In the end, it might be better to tackle this kind of problem by increasing the cost and stats of support items, and shifting some of the power of mage supports away from bases and onto AP scalings, rather than by nerfing their income.

SpyroSpaceDragon2 votes

you are looking at a support that has no problem poking with spellthief like i mentioned in my post supports like brand and zyra are pretty much unrivaled in lane unless by a tank support

SpyroSpaceDragon1 votes

my average gold against these 2 champs specifically is 2-3k less per game

Professor Ward1 votes

{quoted}

my average gold against these 2 champs specifically is 2-3k less per game

if you check the top 15 gold earners, maybe 3-4 are true supports and not some gimmick from another lane

Professor Ward2 votes

The champions youre referencing also average more kills and assists than most top and jgs..... Its not the support role its the champions being played there....

Alistar - 7824 Janna - 8427

Two of the premier supports right now, show average gold numbers that are a little more true at the role

SpyroSpaceDragon3 votes

ye kinda dumb to choose brand as an example because he is a support with one of the highest gold gains

Professor Ward2 votes

{quoted}

ye kinda dumb to choose brand as an example because he is a support with one of the highest gold gains

if you check the top 15 gold earners in the support role , maybe 3-4 are true supports and not some gimmick from another lane, mainly mid.

Eedat2 votes

Probabably because Janna and Alisstar dont have solo lane info to compare it to?

As far as kills and assists go its because top laners are shackled to clearing a wave a lot while Supports can roam wherever they want while still having a solid gold income. This is probably why top lane feels like shit. You have to afk in a side lane half the game to grt a support income and dint get to partipate on the rest on the map half as much

Also, you dont see a problem with supports getting more kills and assists than the role whose job it is is to literally roam the map try to get kills and assists? Probably because junglers have to stop and farm too.

So in the end support gets to participate the most while not losing nearly as much

SpyroSpaceDragon1 votes

have you seen ali top or jg?

Eedat2 votes

No. Not since Ali could weave a triforce proc on his headbutt before flinging you away

Feel Apathy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Professor Ward,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8TAJXRjP,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-04-09T19:39:34.488+0000)

The champions youre referencing also average more kills and assists than most top and jgs..... Its not the support role its the champions being played there....

Alistar - 7824 Janna - 8427

Two of the premier supports right now, show average gold numbers that are a little more true at the role

I'd guess this is, because janna can always run in and hit W for 20g or poke with Tornado for 20-60 gold, while Alistar has to always last hit a cannon with a nearby ally for a decent chunk, and that's on a bigger "cooldown"

AlienPrimate2 votes

I don't know what you are complaining about. I see every support in the game being lower than everyone else in the game except Ivern jungle who is also a support. In most of my games, the support has 30-40% less gold than the second lowest gold amount. That is pretty significantly less. The gold gap increases the better your team is doing on support.

Ahri Baka2 votes

Actually because as a mid laner , you can't take all gold you want , 160 CS at a specific minute but some people can get 250 at that time , a support doesn't have to worry about farm also there are 2 players playing in bot lane , not to mention the jungler and everyone who comes bot lately which makes the game snowball even for supports

BALDG1VEN BOOMER1 votes

Ivern and Brand are the only two comparable.

Nice comparison between “rivaling” gold.

Wolfeur1 votes

You can't just compare gold like that

You have so many factors that come into play, like game length, win rate, elo, team comp, etc…

ExternalLink1 votes

Crazy how the highest gold income earning supports (aka most of the meta ones), only earn 4k gold less than the very best gold earners in the game. 4k gold is 1-1 1/2 items. Until you consider that Supports have the cheapest item builds in the game, every item that a support might want costs 3k gold or less. Zhonyas and Liandires are both 3k or less, while actual support items such as Locket, Zekes, Ardent, Redemption and so on are all in the 2.1-2.3k gold range. While their core (such as eye of the watchers) only costs 1.8k gold. Compare this to Triforce, Steraks, Cleaver, Hydra and Deaths Dance, all bruiser items, that cost 1-1.5k gold more. So even though they earn less, they're still getting the same mileage out of their gold when it comes to getting to full build.

Mig891 votes

Not really because their full items dont have the stats the expensive items have. They might both be full build but one item set is going to offer a lot more than the other. Support items tend to be team oriented and have smaller windows of powwer than laning items(Not sure what to call these) Theres nothing really wrong with it but saying they get the same mileage is just not true.

ExternalLink1 votes

{quoted}

Not really because their full items dont have the stats the expensive items have. They might both be full build but one item set is going to offer a lot more than the other. Support items tend to be team oriented and have smaller windows of powwer than laning items(Not sure what to call these) Theres nothing really wrong with it but saying they get the same mileage is just not true.

Smaller windows of power? Bro, pls don't use Riot terminology... Support items tend to have really strong active/passives, so I kinda disagree. There's also the fact that no one focuses supports, because of that they'll have a tendency to stay alive longer simply because they're not a priority target, which in turn allows them to do more in TFs. Sure, a full build support will never be able to 1v1 a full build bruiser, but they can contribute just as much, if not even more to a teamfight.

Mig891 votes

Which is fine, no? If a support cant 1v1 anyone then they should contribute to a teamfight more than a champ who can 1v1 anyone. Both teams have a support, both teams have an adc. This is what teamcomps should build around to have good teamfighting power, right?

ExternalLink1 votes

{quoted}

Which is fine, no? If a support cant 1v1 anyone then they should contribute to a teamfight more than a champ who can 1v1 anyone. Both teams have a support, both teams have an adc. This is what teamcomps should build around to have good teamfighting power, right?

I mean you've literally just argued for power to be re-focused on botlane. Which it currently is, and is currently why so many games feel like shit. Why should a single lane be able to contribute OVER twice as much to a teamfight than any other lane?

As of right now, Bot > Top and Jungle in terms of influence in a teamfight. That honestly shouldn't be the case. It used to be that Top alone could rival Botlanes influence.

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