people will swear up and down tanks are broken and they do to much damage.
but these items are just completely ignored.
but these items are just completely ignored.
Considering most of the people complaining about "tanks" doing too much damage tend to list Garen, Darius, Volibear, Mundo and Nasus as examples, I wouldn't pay much attention to their opinions.
You would not believe the number of players who seem to believe that "if they build defensive items they are tanks".
No darius has 4k hp he's tank!1111

They arent considered tanks, but bruisers, all of these have cc, they all have around 3-4k hp lategame, they can all 1v1 adc's early to mid game. and most of the time the game is won before they fall off lategame.
Which champions are tanks?
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses
Tanks excel in shrugging off incoming damage and focus on disrupting their enemies more than being significant damage threats themselves.
We like to refer to Vanguards as “offensive tanks.” Vanguards lead the charge for their team and are specialists at getting action started. Their explosive team fight initiation seeks to catch enemies out of position while allowing allies to follow-up to devastating effect.
If Vanguards are “offensive tanks,” then Wardens are surely “defensive tanks.” Wardens stand steadfast, seeking to hold the line by persistently locking down any oncomers who try to pass them. Wardens keep their allies out of harm’s way and allow them to safely deal with enemies caught in the fray.
Tanks are generally durable champions whose primary threat to the enemy team is their CC and utility rather than their damage.
If you want a few examples of champions who would be considered tanks:

Yeah I don't feel that tanks do much damage but because of items and masteries they are able to do a ton of damages compared to the past, they also tank less compared to the past.
Tanks have decent damage but it will generally plummet against anyone who builds the appropriate resistances.
Anyways, the main point was that tanks are valued for their CC and utility while fighters are valued for their damage.
Tanks have decent damage but it will generally plummet against anyone who builds the appropriate resistances.
bam nailed it
ofc a tank can hurt an adc or apc without any resistances its only logical just base damage alone will hit hard enough at that point, though a tank will never burst you but wear you down if given time because even the base damage isn't so high they could obliterate you
but buy just 1 defensive item and their damage is completely gone nothing left of it
its also why you see mainly carry mains complain about it though a simple LDR buy will allow them to preety much 2 shot tanks these days . . .
This is probably why people think tanks hit hard. People tend to build glass cannon unless you're a juggernaut or tank, so the lack of resistances and squishy builds might be mucking that up.
This is probably why people think tanks hit hard. People tend to build glass cannon unless you're a juggernaut or tank, so the lack of resistances and squishy builds might be mucking that up.
This /\
Being squishy means even a gentle breeze will hit like a truck on you.
Generally most tanks rely on their CC and utility to be useful/threatening So if a tank would deal 0 damage they would still be rather useful most of the time
While if a bruiser/fighter/juggernaut dealt 0 damage they would be garbage as they rely on their damage to be threatening and forcing the enemy team to either focus them (and with them being rather tanky will likely lead to their team winning the fight... but they also have enough damage that they can't be ignored most of the time) Examples are champions like Illaoi, Darius, Garen, Mundo (they don't have much CC but they have a good amount of damage)
Considering most of the people complaining about "tanks" doing too much damage tend to list Garen, Darius, Volibear, Mundo and Nasus as examples, I wouldn't pay much attention to their opinions.
You would not believe the number of players who seem to believe that "if they build defensive items they are tanks".
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Tank_champion
Besides alistar, braum, and the rare full tank blitzcrank, which of these champions actually don't deal tons of damage?
Your mistaking is looking at both primary and secondary tags as if they were the same, and ignoring the other tags applied to those champions. Olaf is listed as a secondary tank, primary fighter-- this tag pairing is what is known as a bruiser, or in some cases, ala Olaf, Garen, Mundo, Darius, Illaoi, and Skarner, juggernauts. These champions are not tanks.
Your mistaking is looking at both primary and secondary tags as if they were the same, and ignoring the other tags applied to those champions. Olaf is listed as a secondary tank, primary fighter-- this tag pairing is what is known as a bruiser, or in some cases, ala Olaf, Garen, Mundo, Darius, Illaoi, and Skarner, juggernauts. These champions are not tanks.
Oh hi. Nice to see you on the boards ;P
It's been a while since we discussed anything.
Anyway, I would like to point out that while you are correct, that doesn't invalidate my point. Of those listed as tank, including the ones that are primarily tanks, only two are actually tanks that deal no damage.
Yeah, it has been a while, hasn't it?
Please, look at my lower comment in response to Mokkun, where I more clearly lay out the distinction.
The term "tank" is one of the most equivocated terms in LoL. Riot has updated how they classify champions (for example, "tank" is now broken up into Wardens and Vanguards) but their older tags were not something to be taken as separate descriptors of champions. Rather, both labels combined were supposed to describe what the champions kit and role entailed. Primary fighter secondary tank was neither a fighter, nor a tank, but a bruiser which straddles the middle of those two groups.
Yeah, it has been a while, hasn't it?
Please, look at my lower comment in response to Mokkun, where I more clearly lay out the distinction.
The term "tank" is one of the most equivocated terms in LoL. Riot has updated how they classify champions (for example, "tank" is now broken up into Wardens and Vanguards) but their older tags were not something to be taken as separate descriptors of champions. Rather, both labels combined were supposed to describe what the champions kit and role entailed. Primary fighter secondary tank was neither a fighter, nor a tank, but a bruiser which straddles the middle of those two groups.
What you say is indeed correct. However it is important to note that there are few true tank items, and there are also only two tanks that are solely tanks. The result is that every "tank" deals large amounts of damage in some form or another, thus the complaints about tanks not realy just tanking damage. What juggernaut items also allow are nontanks dealing large amounts of damage while behaving as a regular juggernaut/tank might. This is seen as a problem, which it very well can be, if Riot doesn't accept that sometimes the champions they release aren't used the way they want them to be used.
What is, however, a very real problem, is damage creep. With tanks being able to deal damage comparable to carries (not equivalent, but definitely not outright outshone), and non burst champions being able to burst as hard as assassins and mages, we experience a dilemma where almost no one except adcs are doing what they are intended to.
The problem is tanks tankiness has been slowly eroded over the years, and their defensive masteries were gutted this season, coupled with the introduction of vast amounts of free damage from keystones-- not to mention more and more items introduced that give free damage, more damage, or like Sheen items, or the Echo items, basically give you a free low cooldown spell. Oh, and CDR and crit are on virtually everything, sometimes both on the same item, so damage has certainly creeped for everyone, and defenses have only gotten weaker.
Here, I'm gonna quote myself from a different thread:
" Tanks have less surviability this season than they have in previous ones. It isn't rare to be focuses down in 2-4 seconds in the late-midgame or actual late game fights-- particularly as support tanks; which did not use to be the case prior to this season.
The influx of damage coupled with repeated nerfs to the stats of tank items have weakened the amount of defenses that can be built.
I mean, you mentioned earlier that tanks were weak in season three, but we went from Runic Bulwark (400 Health, 20 Armor, 30 Magic Resist with "Unique Aura - Legion: Nearby allies gain 10 Armor, 30 Magic Resist and 10 Health Regen per 5.") for the first three seasons, then with nerf after nerf we finally got all the way down to our current Locket of the Iron Solari which, yes, gives an active shield, but only has 400 health, 20 magic resistance, 100% base health regeneration, 10% cooldown reduction, and an aura which simply grants 15 magic resist.
You can look at the patch history for most tank items and you will see the current items we have are shadows of their former selves.
Warmogs used to stack up to 1400 health, and give 62.5hp/5, this season it was changed to be out of combat regen focuses and given cdr like every other fucking thing. Now its stats are 800 health (a full 600 less hp than it was at its inception), 200% base health regeneration, 10% cooldown reduction, with a passive that grants 1.5% maximum health every half-second if damage has not been taken in the last 8 seconds if you have more than 3,000 hp. That regen is great if you win a fight and for shrugging off poke; y'know what it doesn't do? Provide in combat anything. It is not the burst protection that 600 hp times your effective resistances, or even the higher in combat regen of the original 'mogs.
The original Randuin's gave 90 armor, and its active also slowed attack speed by 35%; in season 5 it only had 60 armor, 500 health and had a unique passive granting 10% less damage from critical strikes. Its active doesn't affect attack speed anymore, and it lost the old slow (on attack speed and movement speed, mind you) on being hit entirely.
Frozen heart used to be an AoE attack speed reduction of 25%, on top of giving 25% CDR, 99 armor, and 500 mana. The current form is a 15% slow, 20% CDR, 90 armor, and 400 mana incarnation.
Thornmail in season one returned 30% of incoming auto attack damage as magic damage, now its 15% + 25% of your bouns armor-- at least it still has 100 armor, otherwise the item would be built even less than it already is.
Cinderhulk went from 350 hp, +25% bonus hp, and did 17 - 34 damage based level in PBAOE, to 400 health and only +15% bonus hp, but had its damage changed to 9 - 43 damage based on level but deals double damage to minions. This effectively just increases the early and late game variance in damage to champions but buffs the damage to neutral targets. In the end, it trade a fairly significant amount of health for a bit faster of a clear in the jungle. Sunfire Cape, however didn't lose any stats but went from 50 damage a second (and being stackable) PBAOE to 26 - 43 damage one, based on level, with a smaller 50% bonus to minions.
Deadman's Plate went from 600 health, 55 armor and a 75% slow at maximum momentum, to 500 hp and 50 armor and a 50% slow.
Banshee's Veil went from 450 health, 300 mana, and 57 magic resist, and a spell shield every 30 seconds, in combat or not, to 300 health, 70 magic resist and 100% base health regeneration which sounds okay at first, 150 health for 13 magic resist isn't too bad (in terms of gold, 150 hp is worth 16.67 mr) and then you get 100% base regen for a chunk of mana. The real kicker though, is that now the spellshield only triggers after 40 seconds of not taking any damage from an enemy champion at all. This means it can no longer refresh during sieges, or drawn out pokewars/skirmishes. It also means it can no longer refresh mid fight to block a spell just when you need it during lane or while roaming/taking neutral objectives.
Force of Nature (40 health regeneration, 76 magic resistance, 10% movement speed + 1.5% max hp added to regen when under half health) was removed, and Spirit Visage was reworked to provide 500 health, 55 magic resistance, 200% base health regeneration, 10% cooldown reduction and increase healing/regen on you by 25% to take its place. Offering considerably less regen, in exchange for more health than the value of magic resist is loses. Additional, it trades 10% movement speed for 10% CDR which is somewhat a wash. Tanks lost basically their only movement item, but they can use the CDR-- except now there are a plethora of tank items with CDR making some build inefficient. The passive change is much worse by itself, however, it synergies well with other regen items, such as warmogs, or champions with sustain or heals in their kit. Unfortunately, other than Alistar, Zac and Gragas true tanks don't have any healing or regen abilities (No, Mundo, Garen, Darius, Illaoi, Volibear, etc are not tanks, they are juggernauts, see here:http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list) and so Spirit Visage offers a less useful passive to most tanks in many situations. All in all, this might be the only tank item I'd call close to the same in power level as options that previously existed.
Guardian Angel lost 20 armor, and you now revive with only 30% of your health and mana instead of 50%.
Hell, Sterak's Gage has only been out for a season and already its lost 100 health (mostly due to ADCs abusing it)
Not even the fucking boots survive, Mercury Treads used to give 35 magic resist and tenacity, now they grant 25 magic resist, and 30% tenacity. Even the tank starting item, Doran's Shield went from 150 health, 10 armor, 8 health regeneration per 5 seconds to 80 health, 6 health regeneration per 5 seconds, and it blocks 8 damage per auto attack/single target ability.
~
P.S. you know what else? Tanks got completely shafted with our masteries this season to make it that much worse. We no longer get 4% less damage from AoE, or 10% increased bonus armor & magic resist, or 10% less damage from critical strikes, we also lost 2 damage from champions for each instance and tick of damage (absolutely amazing for DoT spells) on top of 2 less damage for auto attacks (stacking with each other). Rather than the rarely used Veteran's Scars we have now, we used to get 36 hp + 3% increased maximum hp (and it even cost 2 less points to do this). Don't forget Adaptive Armor which gave 4% of your bonus armor as magic resistance if you have more bonus armor than bonus magic resistance or 4% of your bonus magic resistance as armor if you have more bonus magic resistance than bonus armor. Finally, may Legendary Guardian (+3 armor and magic resist per enemy in 700 range; so 15 armor and magic resist free every teamfight) rest in peace with FoN, Bulwark, HoG, etc."
So all that tanks have left is weaker defenses, and more access to damage now-- what do you expect them to do but slightly more damage, and die quicker too.
Well yeah. What's happened is that basically all of the good pure tank items got weakened, and we were instead given the option to be pretty tank and build juggernaut. There is not a single tank today who doesn't deal a significant amount of damage. If they itemize for it, then they can even still be pretty tanky while dealing a lot of damage. I really miss the old tank items, because they gave actual tank itemization (and because FoN was awesome). Yet they removed most of the health regen, and gutted lifesteal (which champs like irelia used with armor and mr to drain tank). There have been no significant nerfs to carries, be they AP or AD. Instead what we see is that assassins don't burst as hard relative to carries, and tanks can burst somewhat but not tank. Some carries can CC just as hard as most tanks, and when they can't, their range more than makes up for it. We're in a place where building more armor is less effective than just working around base armor because of new last whisper items, building MR is hard because most items barely have any MR, and building health is also lame because everyone and their mother has % health damage. So now we see that people who can tank and live longer while also dishing out damage become the best "tanks." The fact that I can get away with a full build of damag— "juggernaut" items which also make me quite tanky is proof of that.
Damage has creeped up, defenses have been nerfed steadily, mobility and CC are more present now than ever-- with minimal trade off for them (just like range all over again). Honestly, old League was more like Halo with longer kill times, and requiring more strategic decision making to eliminate targets (which was often forcing someone back, rather than outright killing them). Nowadays it seems much more like CoD, where its burst or be bursted, first person to blow their load wins.
Damage has creeped up, defenses have been nerfed steadily, mobility and CC are more present now than ever-- with minimal trade off for them (just like range all over again). Honestly, old League was more like Halo with longer kill times, and requiring more strategic decision making to eliminate targets (which was often forcing someone back, rather than outright killing them). Nowadays it seems much more like CoD, where its burst or be bursted, first person to blow their load wins.
Difference is one of those two was actually fun.
Hint: it wasn't CoD
Heck, mobility would be acceptable too, if it wasn't for the fact that nobody with mobility loses out on damage.
Furthermore, nobody with cc/utility loses out on damage.
Almost every champion has a form of mobility, and almost every champion has a form of cc. The amount of champions who don't deal insane amounts of damage for what they have in their kit are limited to most of the true supports.
And then there's ekko, with the cc, mobility, and damage. Trust me has tradeoffs.
In trying to make it such that there are no true counterpicks and niche picks, what Riot has actually done is create a sort of standardization, wherein almost every champion gets some of everything with extra damage sprinkled on top. Soon, they got carried away, and started putting a lot of everything in. Champions like Shyvana, who has high damage, good mobility, but basically no cc are considered broken or weak in this system because when they are good they can use their strong point to trump everyone else being avetage at everything, but when they are weak they are trash because then they are average to good at what they're best at, and horribad at everything else.
In short, I have to say that the issue is Riot trying to force champions into a scenario where they have less of one thing, a little bit of everything else, and a little more of one thing. Simply put, to make champions interesting, they have to raise everything up, and as such, we are in a situation where almost every champion is a jack of all trades (except tanking and supporting, but who cares about that anyway, am I right?). By trying to make that game easier to balance, they have ultimately taken away a huge part of the fun of the game, resulting in the mess we have today.
Older champions at least did trade CC/utility for damage. . . now, that's gone completely out the window, as everything is overloaded as fuck.
They have made a good decision recently in how they handled the juggernauts, imo. Now, before all the bronze and silver players start raging at me for defending the "unkillable tanks with carry damage" I just want to say that yes, they should be that tanky and have that much damage, when they have next to no utility-- Garen has a 1.5 second silence, I guess? Darius has a short range pull and a single target decaying slow, Illaoi has her E which is 99% damage but does have a conditional, powerful (albeit brief) slow-- Next to no movement-- Garen has a slow cleanse which sorta counts, and a nerfed (both in power and duration) %ms buff [note, he also lost his tenacity with the update which was pretty huge, though severely overlooked by most people], Darius has literally nothing (where as he used to get +5% MS per bleeding champion) Illaoi has her W though with its cast time and pitiful range, she can walk faster than it moves depending on build-- and no range.
If they continue to balance classes of champions in this manner, and keep splintering larger classes into small, niche categories, and balancing them around more extreme allocations of strengths and weaknesses ala juggernauts, then maybe there is hope for League. Imagine mobile, ranged ADCs having no utility, lower damage (at least compared to other carry archetypes, and yes, that does include juggernauts, light fighters, AP carries, etc not just other ADCs) and no defenses. If the balance was done extremely well, RIOTs goal of Morde (or any champion in a carry archetype for that matter) as a botlane carry could easily become a part of normal reality-- subject to team comp/counter picks of course. In such an environment you wouldn't have jack of all trade champions, you'd have specialized groups. Sure, you'd likely have instances of one champion in that group dominating other picks. For example, if they gave Darius a significant buff right now, he'd crowd out Garen and Illaoi when one is choosing between juggernauts. That said, unless their balance was ludicrously out of whack, Darius wouldn't crowd out other classes of champions; or at least not from their niche.
You Left one out.
The coolest of them all.
Sion isn't a tank.
He's a train.
Choo choo motherfucker.
The tanks they complain about are tank fighters meant to do that. CC tanks have high bases so they don't get ignored when they use their abilities.
Tanks don't seem out of line to me, they're meant to do the damage they do, fighters should kill ADC's when they're in range, CC tanks should deal decent damage to contribute more than just CC in case the team doesn't follow up perfectly.
They are tanky though, they could be referring to their ability to absorb damage, not provide CC, when they say tanks.
Tanks are valued for their utility and durability.
Even if a champion is durable, that doesn't make them a tank.
It's not tanks that do too much damage. It's all the damage that has been added to the game that's dealing too much damage.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Actually it's the bullet.
Not if you are using the gun as a bludgeon.
You can also throw it, I guess.
You'd have to have one hell of a throwing arm to kill somebody like that.
throw the gun at their bullet wound
Man, idk... whenever I play a tank I always go "HOW THE F---- DO I DIE SO FREAKING QUICKLY WHEN I HAVE SO MUCH ARMOR/HEALTH!???"
Then I started to realize, I build a shitton of armor but no health. Doesn't matter though, I still feel heavily underpowered as a tank. I get kited to oblivion and can never really lockdown my targets because of how short ranged most of my abilities are. That's why I stray away from tanks.
But when you play against people that play tanks, and strictly tanks... oh god, the horror. I feel like they're just god damn impossible to kill or get away from.
Sadly though I almost mostly play tanks... I pretty much never become impossible to kill... well I guess that comes with trying to be a tank on a support budget
Well there was that one game where I played Braum against an all AD team where the game dragged on long enough for me to pretty much get full build and eventually Braum (me) and Malphite could almost destroy the enemy team by ourselves... though that was quite some time ago (after all stuff like that doesn't happen often)
Just play a toplane as naut, malph whatever real tank against cassio or swain. Then you will see how useless health and resistances actually are...
I love how people say that those items are ignored but if you go into any thread that has tanks complaining about dying too fast those items are always mentioned along with flat pen. So what is it? Are the items rarely used at all or are the items actually in use? You cant have it both ways.
the tanks complaining are going up against adc that has
with
.
the adc that complain about tanks being unkillable have none of those 2 mentioned items
when a "tank" is building
/
first,
/
second.
are we sure we can call them tanks?
and then you look at real tanks who build
as their first and second item.
to deal with tanks you need to kite, im sorry you failed to build
/
as part of your core build and instead went with your standard build.
when a "tank" is building
/
first,
/
second.
are we sure we can call them tanks?
and then you look at real tanks who build
![]()
as their first and second item.
to deal with tanks you need to kite, im sorry you failed to build
/
as part of your core build and instead went with your standard build.
do you consider
on
tank?
thats a mix for sure. but not tons of damages what maokai could be dealing.
a better tank maokai would build
-> boots either merc or ninja tabi, pending enemy team ->
/
one then the other, optimized against enemy team. ->
-> fill item, either
/
again considering enemy team.
thats an ap bruiser/juggernaut build.
hmm you sure? its pretty damn tanky its all armor, hp and cdr , mana , mr
Too much damage focus for a tank. He wouldn't survive focus fire as long as if he had gone full tank. He's a durable bruiser with that build, but he's no tank.
this is an AP item period
this is an AP item period.
this is an offense/defense hybrid item so no not a pure tank item.
this is somewhat of a tank item but is still technically a bruiser item. its purpose is to win trades
probably the only reall tank item but its still a sustain item.
this is a pure tank build no damage just pure survival to the max
Usually if I see someone with BC I immediately assume bruiser.
correction, this one is ignored.
Let's not forgot this thing either, yeah?
Enemy
? Better buy 
I'm really tired of people complaining about tanks when they aren't recognizing what a tank actually looks like, because there is a distinction. "I got wrecked by Ekko so tanks are bullshit!"
No they aren't, and Ekko isn't a tank; just because he's building tank items doesn't make him a tank. That's just a scumbag player building tanky to abuse his overloaded-piece-of-shit kit design while using the free power he gets from the terrible keystone masteries Riot put into the game this season to make him that much stronger.
"People will swear up and down tanks are broken and they do to much damage."
I believe those people are called "bad".