Azir Buff Idea- Remove the Duration of His Passive Turret

Meep Man·Dec 7, 2016·33 votes·5,303 views

Why must Shurima fall once again? WE MUST EXPAND ONWARDS! WE SHALL RECLAIM OUR KINGDOM AND BUILD OUR ARMY!

(Ok, but seriously, why does the health have to decay until it decays itself to death? It already loses all of it's armor if Azir isn't nearby, why the double defense nerf?)

CHANGES

Passive- Shurima's Legacy

No longer loses health if Azir is within 2500 units of the tower NOTE: Only one tower can be created at once
Sand Tower now begins to regenerate 1% of it's max health every second after being out of combat for 10 seconds (only when Azir is nearby)

EDIT: Instead of always permanent, it now doesn't lose health if Azir is within 2500 units of it.

36 Comments

RiotMeddlerDec 8, 201613 votes

Non decaying passive towers are something we've tried, both during Azir's original development and again during the 6.24 development cycle. In some cases it's a fine change, and one that certainly feels better to Azir. In other cases though it leads to Azir stalling a lane out or keeping perpetual pressure if his team's the one sieging. Decaying health's a safety valve as a result, allowing teams to mix waiting the tower out and putting damage on it as responses.

EROTIC RAID BOSSDec 8, 20161 votes

I'd personally rather you guys focus on looking at Azir himself, and the changes you feel you need to make to get him to a more healthy spot etc

Meep ManDec 8, 201611 votes

It is a good safety valve yes, but in my opinion it might not be the best way for the tower to have a duration if it has any. An idea that could be tried is making his passive tower drain a portion of it's life every time it fires a bullet (like 3% or so per attack, would require fine tuning) so the tower does gradually kill itself, but only when it is in use and being assaulted. Just having it passively kill itself off encourages the opponent more to just roam elsewhere momentarily (especially with the gold reward changes) since they know it's only a temporary obstacle that will die off in a minute. The only time the current tower is a real threat or even decent obstacle is if it is spawned in the middle of a team fight, upon which there really isn't any difference between it and a Heimerdinger turret other than being restricted to where a turret has died. This is especially true in your own base for defending objectives since Azir's turret itself doesn't prevent damage to structures behind it last time I checked.

Electro522Dec 8, 20166 votes

What about something halfway?

Say the closer he builds the turret to his nexus, the better the turrets are. On an enemy inner turret, it would degrade even faster than what we have now. However, this gets better and better, until you finally reach the inhib towers, where they won't degrade at all, or just very slowly. You could also possibly add in an interesting buff to his towers if built on a nexus tower, since they are the closest to his nexus, like increased damage or fire rate.

I offer this idea because in several other games where turrets are used (i.e. Overwatch), the character using them is predominantly defensive. Sure, they have offensive uses, but they really shine in defense.

In my opinion, this could give Azir an interesting niche, and possibly even tie in well with him being an Emperor. The closer you get to his home, the better he can defend it.

Overlord ForteDec 8, 20161 votes

I wonder about tying the strength of the tower in relation to Azir's allies, himself, and the such. An unattended tower is much weaker than one 5 people are huddling under for the glorious golden radiance, for example.

UltîmaDec 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Non decaying passive towers are something we've tried, both during Azir's original development and again during the 6.24 development cycle. In some cases it's a fine change, and one that certainly feels better to Azir. In other cases though it leads to Azir stalling a lane out or keeping perpetual pressure if his team's the one sieging. Decaying health's a safety valve as a result, allowing teams to mix waiting the tower out and putting damage on it as responses.

What if Azir needed to be near his tower, as in the tower would decay much faster than it did now if Azir did not remain within range? Would tethering the tower's usefulness to Azir's presence be more impactful when he's trying to hold a position, but also eliminate the scenario where Azir can create a turret for his team to fall behind if they're getting rushed/need to retreat?

As a trade-off to this power, wouldn't it make sense to limit him to a stationary role when he's using it? Just trying to spitball ideas here since Azir's been on the backburner for a long time, and the core idea behind his design was for him to be a zone-control mage, with the turret being one the strongest form of zone control in the game.

On another topic; has the team looked into removing Azir's Q's damage in favour of gearing it towards more of a re-positioning tool so that Azir's DPS is more closely related to how effectively he can use his soldier's AAs? A bit problem that has been expressed by both Riot and players is how effectively he's able to burst opponents from a quick Q -> AA, AA. With Rylais becoming considerably less effective on the Emperor, might it be a good opportunity to shift more power from the Q into the W to make his pattern more counter-playable?

As an aside, this would also make him more distinct from Orianna who relies on passing the ball through enemies to deal damage - whereas he would rely on hitting as many AAs as possible to maximize his output.

SkiasDec 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Non decaying passive towers are something we've tried, both during Azir's original development and again during the 6.24 development cycle. In some cases it's a fine change, and one that certainly feels better to Azir. In other cases though it leads to Azir stalling a lane out or keeping perpetual pressure if his team's the one sieging. Decaying health's a safety valve as a result, allowing teams to mix waiting the tower out and putting damage on it as responses.

Meddlar, do you feel champions like Azir and Anivia having SOME stall tools is nice to counter some nasty stuff like ZZrot cheese builds? I feel like at times, that's why I pick Anivia. When Turrets feel like paper it gives you some control over how fast you are getting wrecked.

I love Azir, but I feel like losing some poke and making him a magic Shurima Shuffling warrior commander would be a great path for him.

ShadowParkerDec 7, 20167 votes

I think this would be rather problematic for teams that are behind. I'd rather see either one lane w/ the turret that doesn't die, or turrets that don't lose health overtime and instead just die when the cool down runs out.

lolipopevelynnDec 7, 20165 votes

Because that will breeak him. They would have to take a lot of power out of his main kit for that

Meep ManDec 7, 20164 votes

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FishlordDec 8, 20161 votes

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Kharn SkyshatterDec 8, 20164 votes

I'd rather that turret passive gets scrapped.

Meep ManDec 8, 20161 votes

I personally like it and find it unique. If it gets removed from him, another champion needs to get it.

Kharn SkyshatterDec 8, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Toast Lord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8KyxxvEy,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2016-12-08T01:02:22.831+0000)

I personally like it and find it unique. If it gets removed from him, another champion needs to get it.

By time a tower falls a team most likely will be able to tower dive the Azir who tries to stay near the turret to keep it active. Its a passive that gives the enemy some gold for just killing it which doesn't take long.

EROTIC RAID BOSSDec 8, 20161 votes

That doesn't mean its useless lol. in the early/mid game, a tower is a big part of how azir gets the pressure to make kills (insec moves), or threatens kills, and it lets him push up to siege a bit if he takes the enemy turret. late game its pretty nice if the enemy team is pushing on your base

EROTIC RAID BOSSDec 8, 20161 votes

definitely not, its very cool and fits his character perfectly.

Imperial PandaaDec 7, 20162 votes

The issue I would have with the no health decay is the gold gained from it killing things. I see the counter argument about item 3512 killing minions and earning gold, but it can be easily found and destroyed; without the need for a wave. But a new standing tower, while weaker in terms of armor, would be sort of free farming unless there is a split pusher on the other team.

WoonStruckDec 7, 20162 votes

This would end up with him being gutted (further) and turned into a lane control champion exclusively.

DivewingDec 7, 20162 votes

I feel like implementing this as is would be too much, I'd be ok with it if it only lost health when Azir was absent, but to be semi-permanent regardless of Azirs location is unfair

TattersallDec 7, 20161 votes

This.

Rockm SockmDec 7, 20162 votes

YES!

Let's waste even more of his power budget on a that craptastic turret passive portion. This way we can buff it every patch and have Azir mains FEEL Like they are improving but in reality they are even more screwed.

TyrekGoldenspearDec 7, 20161 votes

Hmm. The Lord of Toast has an interesting idea here.

SpoofghoulDec 7, 20161 votes

Upvoted

but can i request one change

Azir Why must shurima still partially fall?

why not allow the turrets to stay instead of selfdestruct on building a new one in that lane

in return their gold value increases by 1 per second and any new turret beyond the first in that lane increases all turret's gold value by an additional 25

TheorcheroDec 8, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Upvoted

but can i request one change

Why must shurima still partially fall?

why not allow the turrets to stay instead of selfdestruct on building a new one in that lane

in return their gold value increases by 1 per second and any new turret beyond the first in that lane increases all turret's gold value by an additional 25

I don't think you understand the gravity of what you are asking.

I would literally just shove to turret, make azir's turret deny cs while I zone him, then collect it right before it dies for a shit ton of gold.

ArcticblastDec 8, 20162 votes

Doesn't Azir's turret give him the normal gold value when it kills a unit? Or am I misunderstanding you?

SpoofghoulDec 8, 20161 votes

Yes it does give Azir the CS or Kill gold and XP

4GLTEDec 7, 20161 votes

Jungle ZZ rot banner of command azir confirmed

a special oneDec 7, 20161 votes

lol no

EROTIC RAID BOSSDec 8, 20161 votes

I don't think any change with his passive is ever going to get at the root of what Azir needs.

Meep ManDec 8, 20161 votes

Yeah, it's called a full blown rework and he isn't anywhere near the top of the list in my eyes considering we still have WW, Galio, Urgot, Nunu, Swain, and Mordekaiser minimum that we have to go through.

EROTIC RAID BOSSDec 8, 20161 votes

I don't think he needs a full blown rework, something closer to the scale of the roster updates

FlyinguillotineDec 8, 20161 votes

Guys.... the turret isn't the problem. Stop messing with the turret and actually change him so that he's useful.

SeenanDec 8, 20161 votes

I'd say it still has a duration, but it doesn't drain its hp along the way.

PoeticJumpshot Dec 8, 20161 votes

What if his soldiers actually defended the turret he created. Like it spawns with 3 automated soldiers that protect the turret within it's agro range, maybe prioritize to champions and what not. Or the "turret" itself is actually just a giant azir soldier he can use to attack with. That would be some crazy doom bot stuff for sure.

TheDyNaM0Dec 8, 20161 votes

Played a lot of Azir, before he was nerfed to hell.

Right now,his W damages until maxed out and minimum 2 items is bad. I mean, AA are better than W's to clear waves.

On the other side, buffing W too much and Azir would become the lane monster he once was before. I don't think he should be a lane bully / poke mage.

My suggestions: He should get a new Q, or remove the dmg on Q (with lower CD). Should be used as a soldier re-positionning tool only. His W should be buffed this way: When in AA range(and only in range), W procs nashor's tooth. Won't affect his long range poke but would buff his close-range fights. Also new W gets 20 %dmg to minions only (most likely for early game)

P, E and R are fine.

JayyDubb69Dec 11, 20161 votes

I still main Azir and honestly the only thing that bothers me is his health. There is none, yet for some reason his E is directly effected by it. Whats the point of giving him a shield based on his health with very little base health. Azir needs the shuffle, it works well for an escape or if your moving in for the ult, that is if you don't die before casting it. However, the only other idea I have seen that would make some sense is to make the Q a way to just move his soldiers around and buff his W. This way it will still feel like Azir who I just happen to love playing because his kit is so fun. Although if you go at the turret, which lets be honest it's doing it's job just fine, make it stronger or more permanent at the nexus spot. A king is supposed to be able to defend his castle like no other. Personally like i said just a health boost is good for me though.