I wish riot would just talk to us

koshkyra·Jul 23, 2018·145 votes·26,242 views

Like, its one thing to make a garbage meta like this one, its another thing to be completely silent on the matter and leave your playerbase in the dark.

I just wish Riot would speak to us on the issue. That post asking for Riot to respond to us about TTK (time to kill)/damage creep, snowballing and gamelength got like 200+ upvotes and was the front page for like 2 days and nothing. Silence.

[sg-janna]

Edit: guys, i meant riot isnt talking to us about the stuff that i listed above. not just "talking to us" in general. please stop telling me that the red tracker exists or that a rioter responded to x thread a few days ago, or stuff like meddlers gameplay thoughts.

148 Comments

Madsin25Jul 23, 201882 votes

They have nothing to say that will not upset us even further is my guess.

If they had plans on doing any serious reverts to damage we would have been notified already.

They are staying on their present course I assume. While my wallet takes a 180 turn away from RP island.

Velzard of KozJul 23, 201816 votes

One can just look at the recent Vel'Koz buff and see exactly what they have to say, lol.

SweedishGunnerJul 24, 20189 votes

Throwing out a 0.2AP ratio buff like it's nothing. Riot of old might have thought about some other QoL change instead of a huge ratio buff.

Madsin25Jul 24, 20186 votes

Not to mention the casseopeia buffs.

Like what the actual fuck.

La BelloJul 23, 20188 votes

{quoted}

They have nothing to say that will not upset us even further is my guess.

If they had plans on doing any serious reverts to damage we would have been notified already.

They are staying on their present course I assume. While my wallet takes a 180 turn away from RP island.

I stopped spending my cash on RP after S5 Juggernaut patch. Everything after that just became so OH GOD GET ME OUT.

Nea104Jul 23, 201811 votes

Yep, guess not buying their skins could be the only thing they could notice.

Still, pre-Season was in November. Now it's almost **AUGUST **and... no answers, no fix, nothing. Actually, they are still buffing damage. This is just a crazy joke, at this point. :D

RiotRiot CaladJul 24, 201847 votes

A lot of rioters prefer to write up their thoughts on bigger topics into dev corner threads rather than responding to specific posts. This helps us get comments to a bigger audience (if a rioter arrives late to the party on a thread, very few players get to see their response), and also means we can translate the thread so we can reach players around the world as well.

I’m a big fan of Meddler’s quick gameplay thoughts, which he tries to do 2-3 times a week. He usually sticks around to answer questions for a bit afterwards. Often we’ll prefer to wait until we have something meaningful to say, but if you feel like there’s an important topic being ignored, let us know.

Maple Nectar just posted a longer deep dive on snowballing and game length over in dev corner as well, I’m not sure if it answers your specific concerns, but hopefully shares a bit more detail.

Madsin25Jul 24, 201824 votes

Thanks for the response.

However the main question is what the bleep is up with all the damage in the game? It is to fast paced everything is exploding it is just not fun.

This one little question never gets answered. Why so much damage? Simple question.

AngrychickénJul 24, 201822 votes

He is a video guy.

He doesn’t have any part of that

Edge of DaybreakJul 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for the response.

However the main question is what the bleep is up with all the damage in the game? It is to fast paced everything is exploding it is just not fun.

This one little question never gets answered. Why so much damage? Simple question.

Purely speculating here but it's probably internal data showing average damage isn't much higher than previously it's just player perception changes or defense has dropped while damage has stayed relatively the same. Or it could be that riot likes the current damage that certain classes puts out and saying they have no plans to change that would make boards go into full rage mode. They could be drawing straws for a scapegoat.

GigglesOJul 24, 20184 votes

If they have no plans for change for defense to come back, this will be my last season. I get too angry playing all the time. It isn't fun to instantly kill the enemy, or get instantly killed.

koshkyraJul 24, 201812 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Calad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8J2dEqJp,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2018-07-24T02:30:16.686+0000)

-snip-

First of all, thank you for the response.

Second, i do use the dev corner/red tracker and read meddler's quick thoughts. I like to see the context behind changes/future plans.

But there's just one question i have never seen an answer to.

WHAT. IS. THE. DAMAGE. IN. THE. GAME.

Do you guys have any plans for damage in the game? What is your opinion on damage?

Another thing i wanted to say is (well i already said it) THANK YOU FOR THE REPLY. Please do not be discouraged by the people who say "OMG! THE SILVER BALANCE TEAM SHOULD BE FIRED!!" and other attacking stuff like that. Those people do NOT represent us as a whole and i really dislike it when stuff like that hits the front page because it's so unnecessary. A lot of people (including me!) really appreciate when we get responses and would much rather have a normal conversation than see a post attacking Riot.

TheKingOfBichesJul 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

First of all, thank you for the response.

Second, i do use the dev corner/red tracker and read meddler's quick thoughts. I like to see the context behind changes/future plans.

But there's just one question i have never seen an answer to.

WHAT. IS. THE. DAMAGE. IN. THE. GAME.

Do you guys have any plans for damage in the game? What is your opinion on damage?

Another thing i wanted to say is (well i already said it) THANK YOU FOR THE REPLY. Please do not be discouraged by the people who say "OMG! THE SILVER BALANCE TEAM SHOULD BE FIRED!!" and other attacking stuff like that. Those people do NOT represent us as a whole and i really dislike it when stuff like that hits the front page because it's so unnecessary. A lot of people (including me!) really appreciate when we get responses and would much rather have a normal conversation than see a post attacking Riot.

Dont think riot calad needed you to suck his dick there.

koshkyraJul 24, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Dont think riot calad needed you to suck his dick there.

you're probably one of the people I meant by "those who say 'OMG THE SILVER BALANCE TEAM SHOULD BE FIRED!" aren't you.

TheKingOfBichesJul 24, 20184 votes

{quoted}

you're probably one of the people I meant by "those who say 'OMG THE SILVER BALANCE TEAM SHOULD BE FIRED!" aren't you.

No I'm not,I simply said you sucked him off for no reason.

koshkyraJul 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

No I'm not,I simply said you sucked him off for no reason.

If you consider greeding someone and thanking them for speaking with you as "sucking his dick", then i dont even know how im supposed to respond to that.

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

DW DianaJul 24, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Calad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8J2dEqJp,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2018-07-24T02:30:16.686+0000)

A lot of rioters prefer to write up their thoughts on bigger topics into dev corner threads rather than responding to specific posts. This helps us get comments to a bigger audience (if a rioter arrives late to the party on a thread, very few players get to see their response), and also means we can translate the thread so we can reach players around the world as well.

I understand this but then this often means you are missing the specifics of what people are talking/concerned about. Some posts might be written off a "circlejerk" but in truth we've been seeing more similar posts this season from players with completely different outlooks, and just posting a response to one of them would answer 10 more.

I’m a big fan of Meddler’s quick gameplay thoughts, which he tries to do 2-3 times a week. He usually sticks around to answer questions for a bit afterwards. Often we’ll prefer to wait until we have something meaningful to say, but if you feel like there’s an important topic being ignored, let us know.

While I too am a fan of Meddlers posts, I do feel I should point out that he tends to stop replying to posts after the first 5-8 pages, and even if you DO get your post in quickly enough, he will only respond to about 10 posts in those pages. This does lend itself to showing an interest in player thoughts or open lines of communication. There was one guy who posted the same question for 2 months in those first 5 pages, and was passed over every time before finally giving up... I don't believe Meddler didn't notice him, so what are we to think?

Maple Nectar just posted a longer deep dive on snowballing and game length over in dev corner as well, I’m not sure if it answers your specific concerns, but hopefully shares a bit more detail.

Maple we rarely hear from, but he at least tends to pop into the thread a few times over a few days to make responses. I'm hoping to hear more from Maple, and maybe we could even see some of the other devs working alongside Meddler offering him support but aiding him in answering his posts. If just 5 or 6 of them too 5 or 6 pages each it would go a long way in mending communications.

HyperionCHJul 24, 20182 votes

That‘s OK for me.

But „outside gameplay topics“ the activity of Riot is really low. Since over 4 months there is no response from the questions that several players asked about the Ahri statue. They even don‘t know if the responsible staff read that feedback.

Teridax68Jul 24, 201813 votes

The problem with these formats is that it isn't Riot talking with the playerbase, it's Rioters talking at players. Your very comment on here talks about prioritizing a larger immediate audience over direct responses, and that's a fundamental difference relative to Riot's older communications, one that has turned a lot of players off. There aren't many real conversations going on here, particularly since certain particular topics are very clearly avoided, despite player insistence on the matter. If you were to take the time to respond directly to individual posts more often, I can guarantee you that those replies would find their way to a much larger audience, particularly since there are features like the Red Tracker, plus sites like S@20 that catalogue these replies meticulously.

AirKingNeoJul 24, 20182 votes

The problem with these formats is that it isn't Riot talking with the playerbase, it's Rioters talking at players.

I could honestly write a whole thread on the topic.

BALDG1VEN BOOMERJul 23, 201840 votes

They have, not directly though.

Damage creep is fine to them, heck they even created Zoe cause why the fuck not?

Snowballing, Meddler addressed this his his posts but recently stopped cause apparently it’s fixed xd

Game length, forgot who but a Rioter said they current length of laning phase is fine to them, what a joke.

With halfway of the season done and no major patches to follow any of these up have fun.

Teridax68Jul 23, 201812 votes

I agree with this. The problem at this point is that it feels like this lack of communication is deliberate: we do get Rioters on here, but they mostly just say what they were already going to do, and very clearly avoid certain questions and topics. There's no dialogue in place, nor do the developers seem to be taking in feedback from most players at this point. Others have mentioned it here, but it feels like part of this may be that Riot is taking a direction that is sure to anger us, and don't feel like explaining themselves for fear of getting yelled at. In the end, it all boils down to the same, but it's still not a great tactic, as this radio silence has severely damaged the relationship between Riot and their playerbase. Actions speak louder than words, and considering how we've had zero words from Riot on time-to-kill, yet plenty of damage increases, I think it's safe to assume that the developers are continuing to push for exactly the direction the community hates so much, no matter what.

AomiJul 23, 201810 votes

This is such bs. When will reality hit them that they’re killing their game?

SenorBobbersJul 23, 20188 votes

Everytime there is a new thread in the Dev Corner section I ask about the damage creep, but I just get ignored or thumbed down by casuals who think one-shot kills are "wai too kewl". Honestly, if we want something to happen, we have to be vocal and seek a response. I suggest that those who want a response actively ask them in Dev Corner as I have.

M00ndanc3Jul 23, 20186 votes

If you regularly check the dev corner and red tracker there is all there responses and posts. You'll see that there are post done ever 2-5 days where they will answer any question you have about anything as long as they get to your question.

nm1010Jul 23, 201826 votes

I was there ~5 minutes after Meddler's post and I asked something like "Is there any plan to even consider lowering damage and buffing towers". My question was the only that got skipped out of the first 15 minutes of questions, I highly doubt that was coincidental. Not to mention the dozens of other posts saying the exact same thing that get ignored every single day.

Pika FoxJul 23, 20185 votes

Its not a question of substance nor measure. "Lowering the damage" and "buffing towers" means pretty much nothing other than showing a gross misunderstanding of what balance is and requires.

nm1010Jul 23, 201818 votes

It was a generalized question that could easily be answered with "Yes we are looking into this, but no promises on a timeframe" or "No, we believe the current pacing of the game is appropriate". I didn't want to hit them with a 5 paragraph essay because Meddler simply isn't going to answer that in the dev corner.

pretty much nothing other than showing a gross misunderstanding of what balance is and requires.

As for that part, I'm part of the .1% that has actually played with challengers/pro players. So forgive me, but maybe you should keep your idea of "what balance is and requires" in your aram/bot games.

Pika FoxJul 23, 20185 votes

Congratulations, doesnt mean you know how to balance.

Teridax68Jul 23, 201814 votes

Perhaps not, but what it does mean is that they are in a much better position than you to talk about the game's current state, and that you are in absolutely no place to lecture anyone else on "what balance is and requires". You lost this argument hard, so it may be in your best interest to stop digging yourself a bigger hole.

EasternBladeStarJul 24, 20183 votes

He knows a shit ton more about the game than you do. This is a fact, and you can't argue against it.

As a matter of fact, I'm part of that group who's played with/against pros as well.

Rank is not everything, but it is a good guideline and indicator.

Pika FoxJul 24, 20181 votes

Which, again, means nothing when it comes to how to balance the game.

EasternBladeStarJul 24, 20185 votes

Experience directly translates into a better understanding of the game's mechanics and fundamentals. Understanding the game's fundamentals and mechanics yields you information on how to better balance said game via various options.

The better players you face, the faster you gain experience.

Now crawl back under your rock, troll.

Pika FoxJul 24, 20181 votes

Lol, no. Understanding and playing a game and designing and balancing a game are two completely different skillsets with almost 0 correlation. Knowing what the most optimal strat is and the best way to eek out damage and map control has nothing in common with knowing why that is or how to best change things for all ELOs and make a better experience for most players. Its like saying a professional taste tester is automatically a great chef just because theyve tasted the best food.

EasternBladeStarJul 24, 20184 votes

Did you seriously just compare cooking to video game designing?

ModAcademy KaynJul 23, 20183 votes

Is there any plan to even consider lowering damage and buffing towers

The highlighted portion isn't really nessecary, and only serves to make your question less likely to get an answer. I'm not a expert, but it adds a tone to the question that just makes it sound, well, hostile. You're asking for a change, as opposed to getting Meddlr's opinion on the two subjects on hand.

A better way to phrase it, if you really wanted to get an answer, is in a way that just asks for his view, not for what you want to see changed.

"Are you satisfied with the state of towers in the game? What's your opinion on what a Tower's purpose is for? Do you think it's possible to buff towers without lengthening the game time, as that's something you've stated you're satisfied with?"

nm1010Jul 23, 20183 votes

As I stated above I was trying to give them the ability to give an easy/generalized answer. I didn’t lock them into a solid yes/no and simply wanted a “yes we have talked about possibly doing something” or a “no we are prioritizing other projects at the moment”. My tone was not hostile (or at least not meant to be), if anything I was giving them quite a softball question on an issue that they’ve ignored.

AugustHeatHazeJul 23, 20184 votes

whenever they do yall scapegoat them though

{quoted}

They can't. If they try to address any issue with the game whether balance, toxicity or even lore they get bombarded with most overblown statements that are usually underhanded jabs at them as people.

exactly

ninjaroxasJul 24, 20184 votes

Ya that's statement is BS I rarely see anyone go and call riot how bad they are at anything other then gameplay and if you go through life not talking to anyone because some people are assholes you need to toughen up

AugustHeatHazeJul 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Ya that's statement is BS I rarely see anyone go and call riot how bad they are at anything other then gameplay

I dunno what to say dude, are you reading what people have said about certainlyT, who doesn't even communicate and ghost and meddler, who have? I see personal attacks against the devs plenty. People are rude, hostile and say that they should be fired, i even saw someone claiming certainlyT is mentally ill.

Claiming that this community doesn't have serious issues with how it communicates with the devs is just flat out wrong but if you wana stick your head in the and i guess i cant stop you however i'm going to listen to what people say happened in the past when they did communicate more and what i can see right now when they do communicate at all.

and if you go through life not talking to anyone because some people are assholes you need to toughen up

LOL the sentiment is, shaky but sound as a coping tool for some interactions, however even for those interactions the people being the assholes are the ones in the wrong, not the people who have to deal with thier shit, feels like you are saying this to frame it in the opposite way, that the people being assholes are in the right. Assholes are never right, even if "growing a thicker skin" is one way, in combination with others, you can deal with them, that doesn't make them right and that doesn't make it an ok state of affairs that we shouldn't work to change.

Anyway this situation isn't one of those interactions, devs are not beholden to you and you don't get to personally attack them and then say they need to toughen up "live in the real world" or some shit. If you think otherwise its YOU that needs to grow up and live in the real world.

If i've misunderstood what you are saying feel free to tell me, id love for you to mean something different and less shitty.

ninjaroxasJul 24, 20182 votes

Idk how you managed to quote my comment with out reading since I never said that the boards didn't have issues. I said they rarely directly insult riot when it comes to anything other then gameplay

Some people personally attacking them is not an excuse for them to ignore everyone. What makes them any better by ignoring the people who don't attacked them? I also never said that the assholes are fine either nor have I ever attacked them myself. I'd appreciate it if you stop trying to put words in my mouth.

No one should ever insult anyone, doesn't mean people aren't going to anyways, it doesn't make it right, but it doesn't make it right for them to be so rude to the other people who actually want to talk about the game just because they got their feelings hurt

TheKingOfBichesJul 24, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I dunno what to say dude, are you reading what people have said about certainlyT, who doesn't even communicate and ghost and meddler, who have? I see personal attacks against the devs plenty. People are rude, hostile and say that they should be fired, i even saw someone claiming certainlyT is mentally ill.

Claiming that this community doesn't have serious issues with how it communicates with the devs is just flat out wrong but if you wana stick your head in the and i guess i cant stop you however i'm going to listen to what people say happened in the past when they did communicate more and what i can see right now when they do communicate at all.

LOL the sentiment is, shaky but sound as a coping tool for some interactions, however even for those interactions the people being the assholes are the ones in the wrong, not the people who have to deal with thier shit, feels like you are saying this to frame it in the opposite way, that the people being assholes are in the right. Assholes are never right, even if "growing a thicker skin" is one way, in combination with others, you can deal with them, that doesn't make them right and that doesn't make it an ok state of affairs that we shouldn't work to change.

Anyway this situation isn't one of those interactions, devs are not beholden to you and you don't get to personally attack them and then say they need to toughen up "live in the real world" or some shit. If you think otherwise its YOU that needs to grow up and live in the real world.

If i've misunderstood what you are saying feel free to tell me, id love for you to mean something different and less shitty.

shit dude, the rioters can easily ignore the hateful comments if their not some sensitive teenager. not communicating just because some people are hurting your feelings is just stupid.

AugustHeatHazeJul 24, 20183 votes

{quoted}

shit dude, the rioters can easily ignore the hateful comments if their not some sensitive teenager. not communicating just because some people are hurting your feelings is just stupid.

yea see you are not helping dude, you are saying "just ignore the horribly toxic culture stop being a baby" you are enabling the toxic culture

also contributing to it honestly with the "feelings are bad" "get a thicker skin" shit, which so many people take to a horrible ridiculous extreme

[{quoted}](name=Jihad Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8J2dEqJp,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-07-24T03:59:07.540+0000)

Yeah it's a shame that the boards has its fair share of immature members that like to personally attack rioters that attempt to communicate.

I'm honestly not all that shocked that rioters rarely show up here considering Maple instantly got attacked by multiple different people the other day.

exactly thank you and Instead of trying to foster a better community people enable it by saying riot should just deal with it... smh

TheKingOfBichesJul 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

yea see you are not helping dude, you are saying "just ignore the horribly toxic culture stop being a baby" you are enabling the toxic culture

also contributing to it honestly with the "feelings are bad" "get a thicker skin" shit, which so many people take to a horrible ridiculous extreme

exactly thank you and Instead of trying to foster a better community people enable it by saying riot should just deal with it... smh

I'm not enabling the toxic culture. I'm simply saying get a thicker skin,which is a fact.you can't expect to not get a few toxics when people are unhappy.what the hell is wrong with that? Simply ignoring comments that are hateful is insanely easy.just saying "some players are hurting mah feelings"is not an excuse for out right not communicating,you also fuck up the other people that are being civilized.

AugustHeatHazeJul 24, 20182 votes

nah dude you are enabling it by saying that people should just ignore assholes instead of trying to do something about them, thats the difference between you and someonelike ninjaroxas who i was able to come to an agreement with

"grow a thicker skin" isn't a final and ever reaching solution its a small part of the many things that can and should be done to combat toxicity, stop trying to make it the one and only thing.

the community needs to take responsibility for being so toxic instead of saying shit like "grow a thicker skin"

TheKingOfBichesJul 24, 20182 votes

{quoted}

nah dude you are enabling it by saying that people should just ignore assholes instead of trying to do something about them, thats the difference between you and someonelike ninjaroxas who i was able to come to an agreement with

"grow a thicker skin" isn't a final and ever reaching solution its a small part of the many things that can and should be done to combat toxicity, stop trying to make it the one and only thing.

the community needs to take responsibility for being so toxic instead of saying shit like "grow a thicker skin"

You don't understand,if they have thicker skin then why does toxicity matter?you already solved the issue by ignoring toxic comments,so why does the community have to take responsibility if there is no problem?

Toxic comments are needed sometimes in case they won't listen,you have to show that your fustrated. In the past,it showed that rioters where more likely to respond to toxic comments than cival ones,because they knew people were pissed off and frustrated. Getting rid of toxic comments entirely is not necessary,as long as the rioters don't have a mental breakdown just from reading them.

ModAcademy KaynJul 25, 20182 votes

Toxic comments are needed sometimes in case they won't listen

"Man, these guys won't listen. Guess I'll harass and insult them then."

Look, I used to Umpire, and a large part of it was dealing with coaches and players that gave you a lot of shit. Just because we have to deal with them, doesn't mean we have to listen to them and what they say. A lot of the time, they're yelling because they don't like a call we made, regardless if it was a right or wrong call.

If you're yelling and screaming at me, I'm gonna shrug it off after a polite "Alright Coach." even if you have a point. Because I don't need that shit in my life, and you're being rude.

A final metaphor, branching off your train of thought: If everyone has BulletProof Vests, than why would School Shooters matter? People shouldn't have to deal with shitty situations, just because there's a way to deal with it existing. Telling someone to get 'tougher skin' is the equivalent of telling someone to 'git gud'. It ignores a lot of the actual issues present in the problem.

TheKingOfBichesJul 25, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8J2dEqJp,comment-id=000d00010000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-25T00:09:19.543+0000)

"Man, these guys won't listen. Guess I'll harass and insult them then."

Look, I used to Umpire, and a large part of it was dealing with coaches and players that gave you a lot of shit. Just because we have to deal with them, doesn't mean we have to listen to them and what they say. A lot of the time, they're yelling because they don't like a call we made, regardless if it was a right or wrong call.

If you're yelling and screaming at me, I'm gonna shrug it off after a polite "Alright Coach." even if you have a point. Because I don't need that shit in my life, and you're being rude.

A final metaphor, branching off your train of thought: If everyone has BulletProof Vests, than why would School Shooters matter? People shouldn't have to deal with shitty situations, just because there's a way to deal with it existing. Telling someone to get 'tougher skin' is the equivalent of telling someone to 'git gud'. It ignores a lot of the actual issues present in the problem.

you quite literally said what YOU do when you get toxic comments, then just said as fact that is also what rioters do.that is you, not riot.

yet again, you can never compare real life to internet shit.i just said there is not an issue with toxic comments because they make rioters listen sometimes, as shown in the past.

ModAcademy KaynJul 25, 20183 votes

then just said as fact that is also what rioters do

I didn't say that at all.

there is not an issue with toxic comments because they make rioters listen sometimes, as shown in the past.

Than you're taking some cherry picked cases where it's worked, and use it as solid reasons as why toxic behavior is acceptable. It isn't. And people are different from each other. What one person can deal with is what another might not. You're generalizing.