Is there any benefit for having "Crit" as a mechanic that improves the game?

SaltyToplaneGoat··9 votes·849 views

Because to me it looks more like one of those relics ongoing games tend to pile up as they age and become better in quality. Remember: at the beginning of LoL Riot was a newly established company of enthusiastic dota fans, not exactly expert game designers. A lot of those "relics" have been removed already, the most prominent example being the "dodge" mechanic. I doubt that if LoL was made by the team today that crit was even considered to be part of the game.

And why am I bringing this up now? Because this system seems to do more harm than good to this game. First and before all: it is the root to all damage-creep. If Marksmen wouldn't have such unholy dps with it, then assassins wouldn't need to insta-plöpp their targets. But because assassins are now so powerfull, mages need more damage as well to be even remotely viable... in the end it's pretty much an endless circle that ends with the ADC being on top of all and we get 3-4 per game at times.

But there is also a second point that bothers me: crit as a system EFFECTIVELY RUINS THE INDIVIDUAL CHAMPION DESIGN. Crit can only work to 100% or to 0%. If it was zero we would have to remove it as no one would buy the items. Right now it's always more effective to just keep right-clicking than to actually work around the unique abilities of each champion. Some modern designs like Jhin try to make that at leats a bit more unique, but in the pool of marksmen he's more or less an exeption.

At the same time crit being viable effectively would doom all attempts to making the AD itemisation more diverse. Personally I'd love some active items for marksmen and other ad champs, maybe even an own hextech-group of active items. Or some unique passives for example, like the few we have seen in Black Market Brawlers some eons ago. However, as long as the crit build is the best chance, there is just no space in the items builds for it. And if there was only one, it would be the item that would be only built last and would effectivly barely have an impact on the game.

And of course the random nature of crit that makes it so goddamn annoying. Everyone who once had to lane against a Tryndramere knows how much it can suck, when your lane is pretty much decided by the RNG. Luckily I've not seen many Tryns in top recently, but in previous seasons that dude was quite the nightmare to deal with...

The only real argument for crit has always been "yeah if they would only stack AD they'd wreck towers too hard". However, this could be easily fixed by giving towers more buffs against ranged attacks to cancel that out. Just for that this system causes waaaaaay too many issues.

Another weird argument was "a bit RNG spices things up". That statement in itself might be true, but there are different types of RNG. I do not mind random drake buffs or jungle plants that require some adaptation and planning, however, I do mind when my enemy can turn a game of skill into a game of luck - and I hate it even more that I as a marksman have to join into that gamble because it is the only possible way to compete.

So Tl, dr: The "crit" system is:

  • the root of all damage creep (that alone would make it very problematic)

  • ruining champion design

  • ruining the potential for item design

  • the bad type of RNG and leads to more frustration than to "unique matches" as dragons/the new jungle plants do

So can we please, please get rid of it and instead have a diverse and actually intersting AD itemization? Thanks.

17 Comments

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

I mean, a lot of recent ADC builds use armor pen instead of a crot build.

But people complain about armor pen abuse so...

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

But you still won't find a build without an item 3031 in it I guess.

Flat Armor pen is only a anomaly as it affects early-game snowballing. Overall this is something that can be easily fixed - and it probably will be fixed during the assassin update, where they will take a look at the items as well.

Teridax682 votes

"Relic" describes critical strike chance accurately, as the mechanic is prominent in video games mainly because it got pulled out of pen-and-paper RPGs. Difference is, games like DnD need randomness to work, otherwise they'd be almost 100% predictable, and therefore boring as hell, whereas actual video games have so many different mechanics to work with in real-time that they don't need RNG to be engaging (looking at you, plants).

While I do think it's good for marksmen to have additional autoattack-based damage, I agree that crit in its current form is not conducive to good design. When the marksman class got an update last preseason, a few marksmen got to scale with crit on some of their abilities, but in the end, the mechanic itself wasn't reworked, which left those scalings feeling fairly shallow and samey. You can't really derive extra gameplay from crit, because crit itself has no gameplay. Most of its issues also still remain: crit is really unstable when in small amounts, which happens in lane, it's powerful enough at those stages to mess up trades on a coin flip, and Preseason 6's crit inflation basically turned the stat into a near-constant damage multiplier, which removed the explosive power that made it at least somewhat interesting (and even then, only to marksmen).

Personally, I think the mechanic needs to be reworked, not removed. If crit were, say, a burst of damage every three strikes, a la Vayne/Gnar/Thunderlord's/etc., the mechanic would carry gameplay and could be diversified into many more interesting features (you could have crits do more than just damage, and therefore need to deal less raw damage to be worth it), and ported a lot better to marksman kits. I think marksmen in general need another class pass, and when that happens, crit and every crit user's kit should be reworked to accomodate a system that's much better at handing out bursts of power fairly.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Ah good that you are aware of the origins of many of these things in DnD or other classical roleplaying. But that is also the root of a very troublesom misunderstanding: classical rpgs are mostly PvE. You don't need to bother with counterplay that way mostly, because your monsters, mobs, orcs or whatever the party encounters will surely not complain about it. However, in a PvP game things are VERY different.

That's also why the concept of a dedicated healer is not working out and why Soraka is always hated, wether she's strong or weak /super-passive-play mode). Healers are one of the most basic fantasy-game character archetype, so people kinda WANT to play that class. However, in PvP design this comes with a gigantic load of issues...

Tbh I think it could be removed. If you want a stat that does scale with attack speed that you want marksmen to build so they can't go tank, give some of their abilities attack-speed scalings.

I don't think a rework could solve the issues of a system so binary that it is either borderline broken or completly worthless...

Teridax681 votes

That is true, RNG mechanics work much better against non-player enemies, though the issue with crit is that it's somewhat double-edged: if a player gets a lucky crit, then the victim feels terrible, but if they don't get that crit, they feel cheated out of a fair amount of power they invested in. It's one of the reasons why Tryndamere is so cheesy in lane: either he crits enough times and snowballs off that lead, either he doesn't and suffers horribly for the rest of the laning phase.

I also think the binariness of crit is something that could be solved through a rework to the model: again, a three-strike model would completely eliminate the random factor, and would therefore make the system much less binary. I don't think attack speed scalings are an adequate substitute, because unless you seriously change at least one ability in every marksman kit, they're not going to provide the explosive, DPS-based power of crit that gives it its flavor and gameplay niche.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Well of course a change like that would have to go along with massive marksman changes. Personally I'd recommend introducing more "ammo" systems like Jhin and Graves have.

Also, I think there is plenty of space for attack speed scalings. Some abilities already have them, such as Lucian's ult. But you could also put it on Ashe's Q or Corki's gattling gun skill. Sivir's passive could be made to scale with it...

However, "dps" and "explosive power" is not exactly something that should go together in terms of design. Either you deal massive damage but only in a short timeframe, or you deal constant damage, but then it's cant be high. Constant burst is not something one could want in this game...

Teridax681 votes

I think you can have both: suppose you have one champion that deals 200 damage per hit, and another champion who deals 100 damage per hit, but also 300 bonus damage every third attack. Over a long period of time, both champions have about the same DPS, but whereas champion 1 deals constant damage, champion 2 deals a mixture of constant damage and DPS-based burst. Because of this, champion 2 is likely to be more interesting, because burst damage feels strong to apply, and the back-loaded damage means enemies can take less damage if they somehow avoid or block that third attack. Effectively, champion 2's damage application is more interactive and potentially more rewarding for either side.

For whichever amount of damage output a marksman needs to be balanced, it might be better to split that into a baseline amount of damage per attack plus a burst every X attacks, instead of just splitting it perfectly across every basic attack. This is the function crit was originally intended to serve, so unless you explicitly want to nerf the damage of every crit-based marksman, removing crit from the game would imply needing to buff them elsewhere. That is likely to happen with the AS scalings you suggest, but ultimately that would serve a different function, since crit really is about increased basic attack damage.

While I agree that more marksmen could use funkier scalings, including attack speed scalings, that's already the case for some abilities in their kit, including Ashe's Q (attack speed increases the amount of volleys you can fire). On caster marksmen like Lucian, Corki, etc., however, AS scalings might not be the best thing to put on them, since attack speed just doesn't work all that well with the rest of their kit or their "natural" builds. There's also the potential issue of AS scalings making no real sense beyond the need for a scaling, as is the case for the attack speed scaling on Jhin's movement speed boost.

DrugsForRobots2 votes

+1 for the question, though I disagree with your desire to remove it.

Is there any benefit for having "Crit" as a mechanic that improves the game?

Yes. Critical Strikes add flavor to the game. By flavor, I mean a way of representing something that players can immediately makes sense of and intuit what it does. Talon's Cutthroat back when it Silenced enemies is a good example.But you wouldn't want to name an ability "Impale" if your hero wields a hammer. Likewise, it wouldn't make much sense for Ryze's Overload to apply a bleed DoT.

As a Critical Strike, Shaco Deceive makes sense, since he goes invisible, sneaks up behind you, and then - surprise! Crit Chance for Ashe isn't actually chance at all, and it's a really neat take on the Crit Chance stat, given what it actually does mechanically. You also mention Jhin who's doesn't scale with Crit Chance like normal champs. And Trynda who gets a % of Crit Chance naturally (based on his rage!) is cool thematically. I can even dig Yasuo's relationship with Crit Chance, even though I hate him. ^-^

I agree with Teridax68 and Irelia Bot, since they both hit at this kind of design: "If crit were, say, a burst of damage every three strikes" and "We do not ask for no exponential damage but instead for it to be reliable instead of RNG." If each champion interacted with the stat in their own unique way (or not at all in the case of most of the roster, i.e. tanks and mages), one that suited them and added to their character, all of the problems you listed would be gone, yeah? If your champion's kit didn't require Crit Chance, buying it would be sub-optimal. :)

I'm also reminded of how Jax, Panth, Fiora, and Shen all have 'dodge' in their kit. I imagine something like that, only the Critical Strike ability scales with Crit Chance. It's like that ability affects the champion's basic attacks or lets their basic attacks Critically Strike in a special way.

ofart1 votes

it makes it more addictive to have random elements which sometimes work in your favor

this is proven in psychology - see variable-interval schedules

as far as an actual benefit, idk... i think it makes it easier for them to create items which only ADCs want and scale for late

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Yes, because random situations can create unique experience and so you don't get bored of whatever you are doing. However, there are different types of randomness and of course their effects differ. In the end the goal is: VARIATION between games.

And I'd claim that there would be more variation if crit was removed and ad-items would be more diverse with active abilities and all.

Hayaishi21 votes

It differences ADCs from AD casters.

Irelia Bot2 votes

So Ashe is an AD caster

Good to know.

We do not ask for no exponential damage but instead for it to be reliable instead of RNG.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

you will get the boneheaded response of " ughhhh. ad carries will be usless they are "supposed" to be mandatory"

crit should be removed. if not. add dodge chance. why give ranged ad carries some luck based advantage and not bruisers. bruisers are literally useless in higher level of play.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Do you even know why crit exists in the game? Here's a hint: It has to do with towers.

Adriqnohee1 votes

Did you even read what he wrote? Because he addressed it in his post.

Papa Slothy1 votes

I think crit runes should be taken out and maybe crit components tuned down or reworked so it doesn't feel bullshit when they get a lucky crit

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Papa Slothy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8HeNMO2P,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2016-10-14T06:13:35.320+0000)

I think crit runes should be taken out and maybe crit components tuned down or reworked so it doesn't feel bullshit when they get a lucky crit

It's not lucky. The crits are pseudo random.

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