The sivir Q buff shows how disconnected the balance team is from the game.

WoonStruck··84 votes·4,042 views

Title.

######Who honestly thought +60 damage at lvl 1 wouldn't be a problem?

183 Comments

Ben Sharpio41 votes

If youre on riot's balance team you MUST be Master + idc or at least diamond 2 theres no way that these silver players should be balancing this game and throwing buffs around like that

Dominick Destine9 votes

[{quoted}](name=Corsair Sion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-07-26T21:02:55.398+0000)

If youre on riot's balance team you MUST be Master + idc or at least diamond 2 theres no way that these silver players should be balancing this game and throwing buffs around like that

Riot's moderators have started to delete comments where I point out what bracket people are in.

I agree with you, but even saying that is very dangerous.

UnboundHades39 votes

Using rank in an argument usually means you lost the argument and are just trying to act superior to the lower ranking playet

PhDs Nuts11 votes

{quoted}

Using rank in an argument usually means you lost the argument and are just trying to act superior to the lower ranking playet

Not from what I've seen on Gameplay. Sometimes it's the only explanation for some of the things people say.

Dominick Destine12 votes

{quoted}

Not from what I've seen on Gameplay. Sometimes it's the only explanation for some of the things people say.

Exactly this.

When people make atrocious balance claims , they can be correctly dismissed if the person making this claim is in the absolute lowest bracket of play. This is because low bracket players simply do not understand basic game mechanics yet.

The inability to understand the game leads them to make erroneous conclusions and thus, pointing out that the individual is... in that particular bracket, is a valid statement to make, no matter how badly Riot and the..... individuals in question, state otherwise.

This is actually going to be fun, to find ways to ... not say 'it' , newspeak here we come.

Paroe19 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T03:42:15.728+0000)

Exactly this.

When people make atrocious balance claims , they can be correctly dismissed if the person making this claim is in the absolute lowest bracket of play. This is because low bracket players simply do not understand basic game mechanics yet.

The inability to understand the game leads them to make erroneous conclusions and thus, pointing out that the individual is... in that particular bracket, is a valid statement to make, no matter how badly Riot and the..... individuals in question, state otherwise.

This is actually going to be fun, to find ways to ... not say 'it' , newspeak here we come.

ELO shaming is like mud flinging. Theres a huge difference between mechanical knowledge and game skill; you can be very skilled, but not understand the concept of situational builds and rotations. Likewise you can have a ton of mechanical knowledge but not be able to pull off the insec 300AD no scope skillshot flash 940+3.6bonus AD one shot one kill technique.

Dominick Destine8 votes

[deleted]

Colton14715 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T05:45:49.573+0000)

Making statements of objective fact =/= Your subjective perceptions

Reality does not care about your emotions.

And that has exactly nothing to do with what I said, yawn.

It would be nice if you read my post before responding and not just respond blindly without knowing what I said.....

Why don't you learn to respect people? ;)

Dominick Destine6 votes

{quoted}

Why don't you learn to respect people?

1- Respect is earned, not given out automatically.

2- Objectivity has nothing to do with your emotions.

3- Good job not addressing a single one of the arguments I've presented.

Victriam, gg'd all of you in one fell swoop.... hey Ariel-kun, I shall link this comment thread so you can explain to these.... particular indivuals, what the point is , if you would be so kind and generous as to do so.

Dextix LT12 votes

1 - Correct, but has no relation to a discussion.

2 - An objective statement which is applied wrongly does not matter.

3 - Your main argument is "Low elos players suck, LOL, so they dont know anything LOL" - Which is not an argument, it is a character attack, an ad hominem, and already debunked.

Sraeg20133 votes

1 - Correct, but has no relation to a discussion.

I'm sure you've noticed it wasn't Dominick Destine who mentioned "respect" first here, ergo you should point that out to Colton147 who started it.

Best Darius KR7 votes

If respect is earned, you deserve none at this moment.

You are flinging claims left and right about how people are not countering your specific arguments (even though they clearly are), and then do nothing to be better than that. Being a hypocrite doesn't earn you respect you know.

Learn what an ad hominem is. This matter has been studied to exhaustion and it's a well-known fact that only cowards attack their opponent instead of their opponent's argument.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

This matter has been studied to exhaustion and it's a well-known fact that only cowards attack their opponent instead of their opponent's argument.

Actually. . . That's less true than you might think. If your goal is to win a debate among a scholarly (topic relevant) crowd of invested individuals, or if only the two relevant parties are involved, attacking opponents is poor strategy. However. When addressing a mob (hello Leddit), your goal is ultimately to leave an impression. And studies show that negativity leaves a bigger and more enduring impression than positivity or neutrality. So character attacks in this environment tend to be more effective. Just look at politics.


This has nothing to do with the larger discussion at hand. Just a bit of fun trivia.

BigBellBrute6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T05:45:49.573+0000)

Making statements of objective fact =/= Your subjective perceptions

Reality does not care about your emotions.

And that has exactly nothing to do with what I said, yawn.

It would be nice if you read my post before responding and not just respond blindly without knowing what I said.....

LMAO sure. Your fallacious argument is objective fact. Pointing out your argument is subjective perception. Sure bub. Take a logic class and get back to us.

Dominick Destine3 votes

{quoted}

sure. Your fallacious argument is objective fact. Pointing out your argument is subjective perception. Sure bub. Take a logic class and get back to us.

RIP in peace, english.

Dextix LT5 votes

First of all, none of that was bad english.

Secondly - RIP = Rest in peace.

Dominick Destine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T10:04:35.648+0000)

First all of none of bad was english that.

RIP in peace.

Dextix LT2 votes

Anyone want to give me a translation of what this guy is saying?

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

Pretty sure he's just mocking you with that one. The joke: He's using bad English to respond to bad English.

I smell a bait... (>_>)

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Too be fair; I have more experience dealing with your/DD's antics. ;p

EDIT: Top of the pyramid.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Irony.

And I never said it was funny. only what the joke was.

GayFluffyUnicorn2 votes

Yeah funnily enough i had to pleasure to talk to someone yesterday who thinks he knows it all about league but he isn't higher because he "has no time to play ranked" plays 1k+ normals this season alone anyways and let me tell you: a lot might think they KNOW how this game works out but they most likely don't and just talk after some pro or streamer. And you don't need to have mechanics to get to high diamond. It's achievable with game knowledge alone and no crazy mechanics. If you want master 150 lp+ yup you better get some mechanics but anything below, nah not really.

Dextix LT4 votes

Yes, you do need mechanics, my brother knows about the game a lot, but his reaction times and movement leaves a lot to be desired.

He knows about the game a lot, he just sucks at practically playing it.

Mechanics + knowledge is the way to rise. However only knowledge is needed in game balance.

Glory ln Death3 votes

And it isn't just bad mechanics that keep people from climbing ranks - some people just aren't good in competitive environments. They get stressed, they tilt, they tunnel vision, etc.

It's easy to talk about the game intelligently while you aren't playing it - relaxing in your room while reading the patch notes, or whatever. It can be much harder to put all that into practice in an actual game.

However, I do believe that higher ranked players are able to learn more and gain game knowledge more quickly/easily than lower ranked players because they are more likely to play with and against players with better knowledge and understanding of the game. Many of them don't do that, though.

ModCaptainMårvelous2 votes

I wanna add to this but I think we can sum up skills required to league in a few ways:

  • Gameplay Knowledge, IE knowing how everything works
  • Mechanical Skill, IE reflexes, aiming, etc.
  • Shotcalling/Strategy, IE knowing when/where to be (Positioning)
  • Attitude, IE how tilt-proof you are
  • Adaptability, IE how well you adapt to metas and best/worst case scenarios.

Each role has different requirements. Whille support is still hard in its own way, it's not as hard as say jungler. The best players in the world (Pros) have pretty high ranking stats in all these categories. Of course, even high ranking players can fall behind in some areas. (See: Tarzaned)

Of course, in lower ranking divisions, you can still climb fairly high by just using your overwhelming skill in one category.

BigBellBrute4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T03:42:15.728+0000)

Exactly this.

When people make atrocious balance claims , they can be correctly dismissed if the person making this claim is in the absolute lowest bracket of play. This is because low bracket players simply do not understand basic game mechanics yet.

The inability to understand the game leads them to make erroneous conclusions and thus, pointing out that the individual is... in that particular bracket, is a valid statement to make, no matter how badly Riot and the..... individuals in question, state otherwise.

This is actually going to be fun, to find ways to ... not say 'it' , newspeak here we come.

It is fallacious to assume that just because someone is good at the game, that they automatically are an expert on balance. This is known as argumentum ad verecundiam The appeal to authority fallacy.

Dominick Destine5 votes

{quoted}

It is fallacious to assume that just because someone is good at the game that they automatically are an expert on balance.

Now when did I make such a statement? perhaps I was asleep but do quote me saying otherwise.

I would love to see it... oh wait, I never did, strrrawman argument.... couldn't you .... individuals in question at least read my comments before responding blindly?

Dextix LT4 votes

If youre on riot's balance team you MUST be Master + idc or at least diamond 2 theres no way that these silver players should be balancing this game and throwing buffs around like that

You agreed with this statement, meaning you share the sentiment that being good at the game = being good at balance.

Hyrum Graff5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T03:42:15.728+0000)

The inability to understand the game leads them to make erroneous conclusions and thus, pointing out that the individual is... in that particular bracket, is a valid statement to make

Your argument is, lack of knowledge causes low elo, therefore low elo implies lack of knowledge.

This is not logically sound. A -> B does not mean B -> A; there are other reasons people might be low elo besides lack of knowledge:

  • lack of mechanics / slow reflexes
  • tunnel vision / inability to focus on multiple things at once
  • easily tilted
  • bad gaming setup (unreliable wifi, playing on a trackpad, etc)
  • can't think quickly enough

It's totally realistic that someone could look at the game and do a great analysis in an hour, and figure out what the right call to make is, but be unable to figure it out in the moment.

For example, I personally understand jungle routes. If you show me a screenshot of a game, I can give you a pretty good prediction of what path the jungler will clear and which lanes they'll gank next. However, I also have a really hard time holding multiple things in my head at once during the game, perticularly when csing. So, I might be playing Ashe, and I throw a hawkshot across the enemy jungle and get vision of all the camps and the enemy jungler's position. But in the moment, under the pressure of csing, I'm not going to be able to predict their route and know when I have to ward for them.

I'm high gold, but I have bronze friends who are the same way as me, but even worse at the in-game stuff; I can still have great theorycrafting discussions with them.

Dominick Destine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=000100010000000000000003,timestamp=2017-07-27T17:09:42.559+0000)

Your argument is, lack of knowledge causes low elo

Strrrrrrrrrrrawman argument.

Individuals like you do not [correctly] quote me [or at all] because it reveals how flimsy your argument actually is... here's what I actually said; _ [low bracket players simply do not understand basic game mechanics yet.] The inability to understand the game leads them to make erroneous conclusions and thus, pointing out that the individual is... in that particular bracket, is a valid statement to make, no matter how badly Riot and the..... individuals in question, state otherwise._

Oh , look at that, I didn't say anything remotely resembling what you claim that I said. Shock, gasp !

Hyrum Graff4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=0001000100000000000000030000,timestamp=2017-07-27T17:35:35.508+0000)

Strrrrrrrrrrrawman argument.

Individuals like you do not [correctly] quote me [or at all] because it reveals how flimsy your argument actually is... here's what I actually said;

Okay, so I'm confused now. I read what you wrote originally, and just now when you copy-pasta'd it, and I don't understand how that's different from my summary.

I'd like to understand what you actually mean, so I'll go through your original comment line-by-line and try to paraphrase and explain how I interpret it; then, you can correct me where I'm wrong.


[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T03:42:15.728+0000)

When people make atrocious balance claims, they can be correctly dismissed if the person making this claim is in the absolute lowest bracket of play.

"IF a person is making an atrocious balance claim, AND they are bronze, THEN their claim can be dismissed."

I think this is a pretty clear statement, so my paraphrase didn't change much. But, let's compare this to some other statements you could make:

"IF a person is making an atrocious balance claim, THEN their claim can be dismissed."

I think this is just as valid. If the balance claim is atrocious, why does it matter what their elo is?

"IF a person is making an atrocious balance claim, AND they are diamond, THEN their claim can be dismissed."

Similarly, I think this is valid. Who cares what their rank is -- if their claim is wrong, it's wrong.

"IF a person is making a reasonable balance claim, THEN their claim should not be dismissed."

Again, I think this is reasonable. It doesn't matter what elo the player is, it matters whether their claim is right or wrong.

This is because low bracket players simply do not understand basic game mechanics yet.

"IF a player is in a low bracket, THEN they do not understand basic game mechanics."

This is the same way I paraphrased in the grandparent comment. I really don't understand how to read it any differently, and I disagree based on the argument in the grandparent post.

The inability to understand the game leads them to make erroneous conclusions

"IF a player does not understand basic game mechanics, THEN they will make erroneous conclusions."

I agree with this one.

and thus, pointing out that the individual is... in that particular bracket, is a valid statement to make

"THEREFORE, IF a player is in a low bracket, THEN they will make erroneous conclusions."

This is a valid statement IF we agree that the previous two are valid. I do not agree with the first one (low bracket -> don't understand), therefore I disagree with this as well.


I will say this: I DO think that being in a HIGH bracket makes it more likely that someone knows what they're talking about, so mentioning your own elo is a reasonable thing to do, to lend some credibility to your analysis. I don't think that mentioning the other person's elo says anything about the validity of their analysis.

Dominick Destine3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hyrum Graff,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=00010001000000000000000300000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T18:23:39.484+0000)

Okay, so I'm confused now. I read what you wrote originally, and just now when you copy-pasta'd it, and I don't understand how that's different from my summary.

This is very tiresome.... it is at this point I would check your..... particular situation, but Riot does not like it when statements of fact are made.

I'd like to understand what you actually mean, so I'll go through your original comment line-by-line and try to paraphrase and explain how I interpret it; then, you can correct me where I'm wrong.

What you think I said is irrelevant. What I said is what matters.

I think this is just as valid. If the balance claim is atrocious, why does it matter what their elo is? Similarly, I think this is valid. Who cares what their rank is -- if their claim is wrong, it's wrong.

The above quoted is exactly why you are presenting a strawman argument.

We're talking about TENDENCIES. Br... Oh oh, you almost had me there, I almost used the.... term that must not be uttered.... let us say "Certain people within a context situated in specificity" must be considered as having a high tendency towards making nonsensical claims.

This is because the statistics indicate it to be so. Data cannot be debated as it is an absolute.

Conversely, Diamond Pride does not have such a tendency. This is why they are Diamond, because they are able to understand the game.

I DO think that being in a HIGH bracket makes it more likely that someone knows what they're talking about

HOLY MOTHERLESS GOAT.

Perhaps the.... individual located in a relative criteria amongst his peers.... was able to .... determine the argument post creation.

It's called "tendencies". But more importantly, the fact that a ..... 'player' makes atrocious arguments as a matter of cause speaks to his ...... spatial and temporal locality, as Riot's determinate obfuscation of paralilism vs. perpendicularism , makes awful claims BECAUSE he is unable to understand basic game mechanics, otherwise he would be Diamond Pride or at least rise out of.... a quantum scenario wherein all possibilities are not violated excepting the terminus-est of the spectrum.

This is what Newspeak is all about. I have to admit this is more fun than stating facts.

Anyway your argument was very weak and easily dismantled.

Ariel the Cruel4 votes

What you think I said is irrelevant.

Context sensitive. If you failed to convey your point in a reasonably understandable manner, then the fault lies on you. Not in the other person's failure to interpret as intended. This is why lawyers exist.

(Keep reading.)

What I said is what matters.

, , , But otherwise, I completely agree. The statement you made is more important than the statement you intended.

We're talking about TENDENCIES.

Yep. Just like you. . .

When people make atrocious balance claims , they can be correctly dismissed if the person making this claim is in the absolute lowest bracket of play. This is because low bracket players simply do not understand basic game mechanics yet.

The inability to understand the game leads them to make erroneous conclusions and thus, pointing out that the individual is... in that particular bracket, is a valid statement to make, no matter how badly Riot and the..... individuals in question, state otherwise.

. . . didn't specify. Oh dear. You made clear black-and-white claim, with no condition for grey area (as "tendencies" would include).


Sorry DD. I won't say your intended claim is wrong. But your stated claim is. You invited this misunderstanding on yourself.

Dominick Destine2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=0001000100000000000000030000000000000001,timestamp=2017-07-28T00:42:33.961+0000)

Context sensitive. If you failed to convey your point in a reasonably understandable manner, then the fault lies on you. Not in the other person's failure to interpret as intended. This is why lawyers exist.

I did not fail in my confection of the argument.

It is incumbent upon the receptor's intelligence whether or not he is able to grasp it...

, , , But otherwise, I completely agree. The statement you made is more important than the statement you intended. Yep. Just like you. . . . . . didn't specify. Oh dear.

Goddamnit.... now I realize why you said what you did in game.

But I don't hold it against you, in fact I appreciate it a lot, to have an actual challenge, someone that can occasionally in fact, defeat me with logic and reason. In this case you beat me using my own arguments and I am FORCED to concede.

Even if I argue your point, I'd actually be arguing with myself and effectively even if I win, I would still be wrong just at another point in the argument. Well played.... you have set up your argument in such a way that no matter what, I will be wrong.

Sorry DD. I won't say your intended claim is wrong. But your stated claim is. You invited this misunderstanding on yourself.

Yes I did, I FFFFFFFFiddlestick'd up but didn't even notice.

By the way to the others, THAT is how you defeat someone using logic and reason, not with "DURR U R MEAN" , that's not an argument.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Even if I argue your point, I'd actually be arguing with myself and effectively even if I win, I would still be wrong just at another point in the argument.

Congratulations son, you played yourself.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

And I just roll in the up-votes like some M&G scrub. Sometimes, it really is that easy. XD

Dextix LT4 votes

Sometimes, yes, but Dominick here uses it against everyone he disagrees with.

Moonfall Saber2 votes

Are you serious? A bronze players opinion doesn't mean jack Shit to me. Meanwhile I'll listen to a diamond player.

DJ Hatsune Miku4 votes

Hey Dominick Destine,

I'd like to use this opportunity to both clarify to you and others that might have seen your statement as to what the Wardens do and do not action in the vein of mentioning ranks. First and foremost we wish for the boards to be a fun, inclusive, and engaging community where others can share their thoughts, opinions, and ideas with each other about the game we all love. However, there comes a time where clashing ideals can arise both from playstyle differences and from the ranks in which people play. Someone in Silver, for instance, has vastly different opinions than someone in Diamond. That's fine, that's to be expected, and in fact some people who are in lower ranks can offer valuable insight to others in those ranks. For instance, despite the fact that Malphite is not considered a very good top laner there's definitely arguments to be made that he can be fantastic for players that are either new or lack mechanical skill for higher tier picks.

Now, when mentioning rank there are three ways to go about that. The first is what I just did, a broad sweeping generalization that targets no one. That's obviously quite fine because not only am I not targeting anyone specifically it also is spoken in a positive fashion. Stating that silver is a lower rank is not derogatory or hurtful in any fashion because it is just objectively the second lowest rank that is currently available.

The second is talking to someone in a respectful manner where rank is relevant. For example, if someone in Bronze is claiming that Orianna is terrible and is having trouble winning with her despite being a very good pick you can use that as an example to say something along the lines of, "Orianna is a very team and farm dependent champion and since bronze players usually are not very team focused she might not be best for someone in your rank. Instead, you should try someone like Lux if you want to play an immobile, utility focused mage as she's more independent."

Now, for the third, and the one that we action on, is one I'll use the Orianna example for again. Instead of being respectful and objective with your statements you might instead say something like this. "Well you're in bronze and bronze players are bad and can't farm and don't coordinate so of course you think Ori is bad." While you're saying effectively the same thing this comes across as very inflammatory, insulting, and disrespectful. You've thrown all ability for thoughtful discussion out the window when you pointedly used their rank as a way to discredit their opinions and effectively tell them they suck. That violates the golden rule of our board and thus is grounds for the deletion of a comment.

I hope that this post has been informative to you and other that may be reading this. In the future I trust you will keep this in mind for both your own personal conduct and approach to the boards as well as knowing exactly what kind of comments are considered valid reports.

Good luck out there Summoner! -DJ Hatsune Miku

Dominick Destine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=DJ Hatsune Miku,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2017-07-28T20:37:06.182+0000)

Hey Dominick Destine

Hello , Mr. Moderator.

in fact some people who are in lower ranks can offer valuable insight to others in those ranks.

That doesn't explain why my comments started to be deleted for pointing out people's status in a bracket. I would also like to point out that I did not place them in that bracket, Riot did... simply pointing out that they were in [lowest bracket] as an explanation for certain arguments presented is not wrong, well it is now but it didn't used to be wrong.

Now, when mentioning rank there are three ways to go about that. The first is what I just did, a broad sweeping generalization that targets no one. That's obviously quite fine because not only am I not targeting anyone specifically it also is spoken in a positive fashion. Stating that silver is a lower rank is not derogatory or hurtful in any fashion because it is just objectively the second lowest rank that is currently available. The second is talking to someone in a respectful manner where rank is relevant. For example, if someone in Bronze is claiming that Orianna is terrible and is having trouble winning with her despite being a very good pick you can use that as an example to say something along the lines of, "Orianna is a very team and farm dependent champion and since bronze players usually are not very team focused she might not be best for someone in your rank. Instead, you should try someone like Lux if you want to play an immobile, utility focused mage as she's more independent." Now, for the third, and the one that we action on, is one I'll use the Orianna example for again. Instead of being respectful and objective with your statements you might instead say something like this. "Well you're in bronze and bronze players are bad and can't farm and don't coordinate so of course you think Ori is bad." While you're saying effectively the same thing this comes across as very inflammatory, insulting, and disrespectful. You've thrown all ability for thoughtful discussion out the window when you pointedly used their rank as a way to discredit their opinions and effectively tell them they suck. That violates the golden rule of our board and thus is grounds for the deletion of a comment.

None of that matters, what matters is that Riot Moderators do not want brackets to be mentioned because that could potentially, as some say 'Hurt someone's feelings'. At the point where subjective arguments overtake objective reality, is the point where justifications become irrelevant.

Bronze and Diamond are not the same thing no matter what rules or forced censorship you apply. We will all still know this but we just can't 'say it'. This is the problem with hardcore censorship, you don't eliminate the idea, you just assure that it will take place in hushed tones behind your back.

Well you're in bronze and bronze players are bad and can't farm and don't coordinate so of course you think Ori is bad

Also.... funny you use that as the "bad example" despite it being 100% correct. This is one of the cornerstones of censorship; It doesn't matter if something is factual , accurate or correct, it has to follow a certain ideology or it will be suppressed....

Don't get me wrong, I will follow whatever ideology you command. These are Riot's forums after all and I will obey the rules.

when you pointedly used their rank as a way to discredit their opinions and effectively tell them they suck.

I would challenge you, Mr. Moderator, to point out a single instance of me saying "You are wrong because you are (Bracket)" or, "You suck because you are (Bracket)".

Never once have I done that, what I did do (Very often actually) is state "You are wrong because X.... I'm not sure why you'd say Y but it's probably because you are [insert bracket]".

Format: [Counter argument] + [Suspicion] + [Statement of fact (Bracket status of %t)]

You did not mention within your three ways of stating reality, what I just said. As in, an explanation for the terrible arguments presented by a person in [bracket].

I hope that this post has been informative to you

You had no interest in "being informative", you were just twisting the knife.

I trust you will keep this in mind

Don't worry, I have already been informed of it and will engage in self-censorship "or else" as has been made clear to me.

"Wouldn't it be a shame if you were perma-banned from the boards" is what you are saying, I read you loud and clear sir... funny how I can be directly threatened by moderation and that's fine, but if I even point out someone's current status in a bracket, that is considered 'wrong'... do as you please.

Good luck out there Summoner

You too, Mr. Moderator.

I expect swift retaliation from Moderation due to me even responding to the above quoted... if the observed trend is to be believed.

Dextix LT2 votes

Oh for fucks sakes.... You are not a free speech hero here mate.

Pointing out someones rank (Like you do) is simply an ad hominem attack (Especially how you use it). It is the basic "You are x so your opinion does not matter" bullshit that those who avoid debate use. Again, in a real debate or a discussion such ad hominem attacks would simply make you lose instantly.

Ideas have to be countered by ideas, not pointing out the person who has those ideas.

Bronze and Diamond are NOT the same, you are right, but that DOES NOT mean that they are different in EVERYTHING. Like it was said THOUSANDS of times to you before, game knowledge is only a small part for going up the rankings. As such a person in bronze can have just as much game knowledge as a diamond, just have troubles applying it in game doe to many other factors (Which you covenietly ignore).

Something being factual does not mean you should say it if it has NO relation to a discussion. If you are making arguments over something and discussing ideas or something like that, brining up a character attack is unnecessary and an asshole thing to do, no matter how factual it is.

"**You are wrong because X.... **I'm not sure why you'd say Y but it's probably because you are [insert bracket]".

Only the BOLDED part is needed. What is the purpose of the rest of that? The only purpose of that as i can see is simply saying "LUL YOU SUCK BRONZIE" just hidding it. I have done simmilar things in debates before, hiding a character attack in some differently worded sentences, it does not change that it is a character attack and has NO PURPOSE.

You are threatened by noone, and the "Help i need to self censorship" line is just riddiculous. Is me having to not say "Get cancer" or else i get banned, censorship? If i can't say the N word to not get banned, is that censorship?

No, it is not, its being a polite human being that goes after opponents ARGUMENTS and not the opponent himself.

I will repeat, what purpose there is to point out anyones rank in ANY situation when discussing ideas. What does it give to the discussion? Because for me it seems that it does nothing besides stroke your go and diminish the other person.

Dominick Destine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=00010001000100000001,timestamp=2017-07-29T08:22:27.635+0000)

You are not a free speech hero here

If you would be so kind as to quote me a single time out of my 37,000 ish posts on the boards/forums combined where I made any argument to the extent of "Free speech".

In my country we call it Liberty of Expression, but even then that would not apply to Riot's own forums. You are misrepresenting my position, aka strawman argument.

Anyone arguing for "Free speech" in Riot forums does not understand what the concept in the United States means..... its different in Mexico in that it is far more broad and ironically, better than yours [BWAHAHAHAHAHA, one of the very few things my country does right].

Pointing out someones rank (Like you do) is simply an ad hominem attack

Nope. I will not violate the moderator's rules because, of course I am not authority here. I hear and obey their commands. That being said, if someone is making terrible arguments consistently, their bracket is relevant.

An ad hominem attack is not the same as an ad hominem argument, but pointing out someone's status within Riot's system is neither. So.... yeah, I'm afraid your argument does not hold water.

Bronze and Diamond are NOT the same, you are right

Exactly.

The prosecution rests, sir.

Dextix LT3 votes

You have not directly made that argument, however i can make that conclussion over your statements about "censorship" and "threats". You are constructing a narrative of a big company censoring people like you because they want to protect feelings of others, which is simply put, bullcrap.

That being said, if someone is making terrible arguments consistently, their bracket is relevant.

Ok, so why do you point it out then? What is the purpose of pointing out someones rank? Could you answer that simple question which you have avoided time and time again? What is the PURPOSE of brining up anyones rank ever?

An ad hominem attack is not the same as an ad hominem argument, but pointing out someone's status within Riot's system is neither.

Not the same, correct, but both point out that the speaker is not only impolite but is lacking in arguments.

Your "Pointing out" is pointless. The only use it can ever have is to shame a person over his ranking. That is it.

Again, tell me, what is the PURPOSE of "pointing out" someones rank?

Exactly.

The prosecution rests, sir.

So, you ignore the rest of the statement? Which says why they are not the same and WHY someones rank does not tell about their game knowledge? If you try to nitpick like this because you can't argue against someone you can't pull rank against, at least try to be less obivious.

This is the rest of the statement you ignored which is contradiction to your "pointing out" rank bullcrap.

Bronze and Diamond are NOT the same, you are right, but that DOES NOT mean that they are different in EVERYTHING. Like it was said THOUSANDS of times to you before, game knowledge is only a small part for going up the rankings. As such a person in bronze can have just as much game knowledge as a diamond, just have troubles applying it in game doe to many other factors (Which you covenietly ignore).

Dominick Destine1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=872fWmfh,comment-id=0001000100010000000100000000,timestamp=2017-07-29T19:10:42.259+0000)

You have not .... made that argument

gg

Dextix LT3 votes

And just like always, your response ignores everything besides the narrative you want to create. Eh, at this point i am not surprised.

If this is the usual quality of your statements, no wonder you need to resort to calling out ranks, it seems you cannot make a proper argument at all.

And FYI, this is the actual post you failed to respond to.

You have not directly made that argument, however i can make that conclussion over your statements about "censorship" and "threats". You are constructing a narrative of a big company censoring people like you because they want to protect feelings of others, which is simply put, bullcrap.

That being said, if someone is making terrible arguments consistently, their bracket is relevant.

Ok, so why do you point it out then? What is the purpose of pointing out someones rank? Could you answer that simple question which you have avoided time and time again? What is the PURPOSE of brining up anyones rank ever?

An ad hominem attack is not the same as an ad hominem argument, but pointing out someone's status within Riot's system is neither.

Not the same, correct, but both point out that the speaker is not only impolite but is lacking in arguments.

Your "Pointing out" is pointless. The only use it can ever have is to shame a person over his ranking. That is it.

Again, tell me, what is the PURPOSE of "pointing out" someones rank?

Exactly.

The prosecution rests, sir.

So, you ignore the rest of the statement? Which says why they are not the same and WHY someones rank does not tell about their game knowledge? If you try to nitpick like this because you can't argue against someone you can't pull rank against, at least try to be less obivious.

This is the rest of the statement you ignored which is contradiction to your "pointing out" rank bullcrap.

Bronze and Diamond are NOT the same, you are right, but that DOES NOT mean that they are different in EVERYTHING. Like it was said THOUSANDS of times to you before, game knowledge is only a small part for going up the rankings. As such a person in bronze can have just as much game knowledge as a diamond, just have troubles applying it in game doe to many other factors (Which you covenietly ignore).
Danjeng1 votes

Is Riot's balancing team really silver, or is it just a figure of speech?

GayFluffyUnicorn5 votes

Well riot fearless who was responsible for the jungle changes earlier this season IS indeed hardstuck silver. (jungle main btw who didn't see that going for a specific jungling route gives you level 3 while the rest of the map is level 1 lul). They claim to have high diamond-challenger/ex pro playtesting team but seeing what changes get to live i just assume that to be a lie tbh.

Skorch2 votes

There are a few people that are silver and maybe bronze on the team. But there are just as many Diamond+ Players.

It would just be plain retarded to be like "Oh your not challenger? Not hired. Oh sorry bub you dropped a division or 2 this season? Better climb out or your fired."

People also assume that Rioters are 1-1 with the changes their name applies to. When actually SEVERAL people worked on the change, they were just the one who started the change.

People are so bitchy about their game balance thinking its more important than peoples jobs. They are no different than that annoying guy in game: "You dont know what your doing i am G5 and you are S1. Knowledge on this game is LIFE dude."

AirKingNeo3 votes

Considering the balance team doesn't do/know how to do their job, I think complaining is extremely justified.

AirKingNeo3 votes

Kindred rework The length of patches it took for Caitlyn to no longer be perma ban (she still is btw) The length of time in competitive for triple perma ban red side metas Lack of cooldown on Duskblade's damage boost Buffing Kha'zix, who was already a bit overpowered, then buffing all this items (lethality) Lack of death's dance nerfs Lack of pantheon nerfs Buffing akali when she was already nerf worthy for being too powerful top lane Lack of any addressing to how powerful Stoneplate is right now, and that also includes locket and cho'gath interactions Lack of hotfixing Coin for being way too fucking broken Letting that huge of a Sivir buff going through Lack of thresh nerfs so he stops invalidating melee champions Lack of substantial to decent nerfs to Gragas, Orianna, Draven, Maokai, Lucian, Twitch Letting Lulu's polymorph still be 2.25 seconds Refusing to nerf Zac's CC Refusing to nerf Elise's ability to turret dive level 3 Letting Gnar be remotely viable top lane.


And my favorite quote about Jayce: "Maybe Jayce shouldn't be viable because he fucks every melee champion in lane. These are things we've known for a while now, but the new developers seem to be figuring that out for the 3rd fucking time. Riot buffs Jayces, guess what that means. Jayce proceeds to fuck every melee champion in lane. Riot is like, 'How could this happen? Who could have predicted that Jayce would do the same thing he did before yet changed nothing about his kit?'"

Point and simple, the balance team simply doesn't do their job.

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