If ardent censer was strong again it would fix a lot of the problems with bot right now

Cloud273·Jul 26, 2019·3 votes·2,165 views

Everyone always complains about how broken ardent censer used to be, but IMO the ardent censer "meta" (lol) was healthy for LOL. Ardent censer is a true support item. It makes your shields and healing stronger, something that an ACTUAL SUPPORT is good at. I don't care what anyone says, if you're not shielding and/or healing, you're not a support. You're just another damage champ. And let's be honest here. If shields and healing were strong a lot of the supports that people complain about wouldn't be nearly as broken (Pyke, Brand, etc). Please buff ardent censer Riot. Get rid of the cancer assassin and mage supports and let enchanters be great again.

31 Comments

LaceUpXXJul 26, 20196 votes

So you think Leona is a damage champion and not a support champion? Interesting. I'm going to assuming your opinion of bot lane is extremely accurate.

Cloud273Jul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So you think Leona is a damage champion and not a support champion? Interesting. I'm going to assuming your opinion of bot lane is extremely accurate.

I never said she was a damage champ. But honestly Leona is just another cc tank. Because her base damage is low she's not really able to lane alone and so she goes bot.

If you want to get technical, Leona is technically a damage champ, but her damage is so low that she can't lane by herself. So she's basically forced to play as a support.

ZephyrDrakeJul 26, 20193 votes

{quoted}

I never said she was a damage champ. But honestly Leona is just another cc tank. Because her base damage is low she's not really able to lane alone and so she goes bot.

If you want to get technical, Leona is technically a damage champ, but her damage is so low that she can't lane by herself. So she's basically forced to play as a support.

So... blitz is not a support, braum is not a support, leona is not a support, It's good to know that unless you do nothing but heal and shield you are instantly disqualified to be a support champion and somehow are instantly qualified as a "damage" champion...

thefatlazycatJul 26, 20192 votes

{quoted}

So... blitz is not a support, braum is not a support, leona is not a support, It's good to know that unless you do nothing but heal and shield you are instantly disqualified to be a support champion.

item 3070 Shen

Cloud273Jul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So... blitz is not a support, braum is not a support, leona is not a support, It's good to know that unless you do nothing but heal and shield you are instantly disqualified to be a support champion and somehow are instantly qualified as a "damage" champion...

I mean, there's nothing stopping them from going bot, but I do not consider them supports by any means. They're just tanks/mages being played bot lane.

rujitraJul 26, 20191 votes

Then your interpretation of the support role is incorrect. It's called support, not "healer/shielder" for a reason.

wolviusJul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I mean, there's nothing stopping them from going bot, but I do not consider them supports by any means. They're just tanks/mages being played bot lane.

Then how come she can't proc her own passive? She is a support, supports can work in different ways and don't always have to be egirls that only heal/shield like enchanter supports.

support give assistance to, especially financially. synonyms: help, aid, assist;

UMomGaeJul 26, 20191 votes

If you want to get technical, Leona is technically a damage champ, but her damage is so low that she can't lane by herself. So she's basically forced to play as a support.

Leona is a "damage" champion but has little to no damage post/pre R nerfs.

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't "damage" champions supposed to have damage and if they don't they're automatically not "damage" champions?

LaceUpXXJul 26, 20191 votes

I never said she was a damage champ.

Yes, you did

if you're not shielding and/or healing, you're not a support. You're just another damage champ

Cloud273Jul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yes, you did

No I didn't. If you read the OP I NEVER mentioned her as a damage champ. But since someone asked me, I answered them, and she is technically a damage champ.

LaceUpXXJul 27, 20191 votes

Your original post had the quote, "if you're not shielding and/or healing, you're not a support. You're just another damage champ." Leona doesn't heal or shield, so therefore, by your opinion, she isn't a support champion.

Cloud273Jul 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Your original post had the quote, "if you're not shielding and/or healing, you're not a support. You're just another damage champ." Leona doesn't heal or shield, so therefore, by your opinion, she isn't a support champion.

Yes and in my second post I clearly stated that she was a damage champ and not a support. Now can we please stop arguing semantics and discuss this?

LaceUpXXJul 28, 20192 votes

There really isn't anything to discuss. You have no idea what you're talking about lol.

Cloud273Jul 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

There really isn't anything to discuss. You have no idea what you're talking about lol.

How exactly?

LaceUpXXJul 28, 20192 votes

Because you said if a champion doesn't have a heal or shield they aren't support. That clearly shows you have no knowledge of the support role or the definition or support in general. Now that I've explained the painfully obvious, I'm out. Have a good one, sir.

Cloud273Jul 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Because you said if a champion doesn't have a heal or shield they aren't support. That clearly shows you have no knowledge of the support role or the definition or support in general. Now that I've explained the painfully obvious, I'm out. Have a good one, sir.

That doesn't mean I have "no knowledge". We just happen to disagree on the definition of "support". What does Leona even do that is support like? She doesn't shield, and she doesn't heal. Literally all she offers is damage and cc. By that definition I could argue that Yasuo is a support. He's got tons of damage and a knockup. That MUST make him a support, right???

thefatlazycatJul 26, 20194 votes

Y'all hear that? Catchers and Wardens aren't supports anymore!

Jimmy RustlesJul 26, 20194 votes

"Remember when Bot lane was the only lane that meant anything"

Yea no, ardent meta can piss right off

RagnaveilJul 26, 20192 votes

That whole year could piss off. ADCs very much decided who won before Ardent happened. Ardent just amplified it and created resident sleeper interaction.

SuicidePlankJul 26, 20194 votes

Oh yes, instead of Botlane still deciding games, but Midlane having a bit impact and Toplane being almost entirely useless... Why not fix it through making Botlane the only Lane and the Rest useless! Was fun when you had to pray you got the better ADC, right? :))

DynikusJul 26, 20194 votes

You're confusing "support" with "enchanter". an enchanter is a type of support, but by no means are all supports enchanters. A support is a champion that supports their adc and later their team. How they do that can be setting up kills with hooks, supplying a lot of CC with snares/stuns, shielding/healing, etc etc.

HotarµJul 26, 20192 votes

Get rid of the cancer assassin and mage supports and let enchanters be great again.

...?

Nami has been one of the best supports in the game for the past 3-4+ patches.

Janna, Soraka, and Sona are all doing fine or better, in some ELOs they're in the top 5 supports.

Enchanters are already pretty great, lol.

Cloud273Jul 26, 20191 votes

{quoted}

...?

Nami has been one of the best supports in the game for the past 3-4+ patches.

Janna, Soraka, and Sona are all doing fine or better, in some ELOs they're in the top 5 supports.

Enchanters are already pretty great, lol.

Just because those 4 enchanter champs you mentioned are good doesn't mean the enchanter class as a whole is good.

HotarµJul 26, 20191 votes

Just because those 4 enchanter champs you mentioned are good doesn't mean the enchanter class as a whole is good.

There are 7 (official) Enchanters at this moment in time. Janna, Soraka, Sona, Taric, Nami, Lulu, and Yuumi.

So right off the bat, my original comment shows that more than half of the Enchanter class is doing good or better across the board.

Yuumi is incredibly strong in the right hands and maintains a high banrate because of it, primarily at higher ELOs.
Taric has a good winrate all around, but is much better in higher ELOs than anywhere else, so he goes from decent to good scaling upwards.
Lulu is arguably the weakest out of the 7 (maybe tied with Yuumi @ lower/middling ELOs?) but even then she's not that bad sporting a 7% PR with a 49-50% WR across the board.

So, to recap, there are 7 enchanters in total. Janna, Sona, Soraka, Nami, and Taric are very strong, Lulu is arguably decent at best. Yuumi is a bit of a wildcard but generally speaking she's good.

And even with that being the case, you want to buff a potentially meta-shifting item for an already strong class? No thanks.

RagnaveilJul 26, 20192 votes

Yeah it would. It would bring back the good ol resident sleeper Ardent meta, a meta everyone TOTALLY loved.

UrarakaJul 26, 20192 votes

Lux approves it.

Metal JannaJul 26, 20191 votes

Dude Ardent is still good.

The entire teamJul 26, 20191 votes

No.

Baby GhoulJul 26, 20191 votes

That doesn't sound right.

If this was removed from bot lane and these were toned Yuumi Pyke down significantly, bot lane would look so much better.

The rest of the problems could be fixed from patch to patch.

TheBrothersGrymmJul 26, 20191 votes

o.o my brain hurts [sg-zephyr]

preternaturalJul 26, 20191 votes

the game is always healthiest when each class actually has a strong niche that is powerful. ardent did accomplish that but people complained. tanks being good accomplished that but they complained. the reworks having meaningful power, items, runes, you get it.

the underlying issues are the community and balance philosophy.