Is Rengar a Diver, or an Assassin? The Diana-Nocturne Problem

Doozku··2 votes·981 views

When people talk about Rengar, more specifically old Rengar, a big point of contention between people is whether or not he should be considered an Assassin or a Diver. Some argue that he has always been a Diver, because of his lack of an escape, something that most Assassins need. Some argue that Rengar was an Assassin, because he would build full damage and crit and try to assassinate a squishy target, like how a typical assassin would play. While there's merit to both of these arguments, I'm going to put my own thoughts into this discussion with a concept that I came up with which most likely describes what Riot would classify these champions as.

#The Diana-Nocturne Problem

Diana is a squishy champion who specializes in jumping into the backline and destroying a carry as quickly as possible, something that is most comparable to that of an Assassin. She generally builds full damage, and forgoes taking tanky items except maybe items that give both tank stats and AP. Then there is Nocturne. Nocturne is also a champion that builds mostly damage and tries to destroy a carry as quickly as possible. He builds mainly damage and lethality, with crit builds also being viable. These builds also leave him a squishy champion who gets blown up very fast, but in turn oneshots enemies just as fast. But historically, Nocturne has gone with a tankier bruiser build more akin to that of a true diver. So why is Nocturne classed as an Assassin, when he's been building bruiser much more in the past, where as Diana is considered a diver, despite her being more known for her insane damage? Well the answer is simply what Riot decides.

You see, champions like Diana, Nocturne, and Rengar are on a thin line between the classes of Diver and Assassin. They are high damage squishies, like Assassins, which lack the escape potential of said class and instead have even more burst and consistency, as well as sustained damage after, like a Diver. These champions are literally split in the middle of being an Assassin or a Diver, so the only real deciding factor that decides their roles is what direction Riot wants to take them. This is how we solve the DIana-Nocturne problem. Riot views Nocturne in the future of being more of a damage champion, as his theme fits the class archetype, and as such, they want to move forward and support that playstyle. Diana was originally designed with a tankier diver playstyle in mind, so Riot wants to push her towards that direction eventually, which means that she will be labeled as a diver, despite her similarities to Assassins.

This is where Rengar fits in. Riot has said previously that they have no problem with the tankier, more diver-like playstyle, and that they want to support that playstyle. Which is why the sudden shift to being considered a diver from being considered an Assassin-Diver hybrid. If Riot wanted him to be a squishy, damage focused champion with Diver elements, like sustained damage and lack of escape, they would label him as such, even if he didn't fit that theme as of current.

9 Comments

Hexs Fortune3 votes

Diana Nocturne Rengar

All divers! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7xJARyPE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-15T22:36:44.417+0000)

Diana Nocturne Rengar

All divers! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Just make an intersection of assassins and divers that involves champions that all in assassinating without a way out. Bam. Call it Kamikazi or something idk.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Diver.. and a lousy assassin as his 2ndary.

Doozku1 votes

True, he's definetly a bad assassin rn and more of a diver. But what I'm saying is that if Riot wanted to make him an Assassin, they would have labeled him as such and then put diver as secondary, even if right now he's not very good at being an Assassin.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Or they just messed up and know they won't be fixing it soon so for the time being thats where they're putting him because thats what they've done.

Ganked By Tilt1 votes

They fucked up Rengar, Diana always had identity crisis now Rengar joined her lol. Its a sigh of bad balance because they simply cannot be balanced between Diver and assassin, two problematic classes.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

When people talk about Rengar, more specifically old Rengar, a big point of contention between people is whether or not he should be considered an Assassin or a Diver. Some argue that he has always been a Diver, because of his lack of an escape, something that most Assassins need. Some argue that Rengar was an Assassin, because he would build full damage and crit and try to assassinate a squishy target, like how a typical assassin would play. While there's merit to both of these arguments, I'm going to put my own thoughts into this discussion with a concept that I came up with which most likely describes what Riot would classify these champions as.

#The Diana-Nocturne Problem

Diana is a squishy champion who specializes in jumping into the backline and destroying a carry as quickly as possible, something that is most comparable to that of an Assassin. She generally builds full damage, and forgoes taking tanky items except maybe items that give both tank stats and AP. Then there is Nocturne. Nocturne is also a champion that builds mostly damage and tries to destroy a carry as quickly as possible. He builds mainly damage and lethality, with crit builds also being viable. These builds also leave him a squishy champion who gets blown up very fast, but in turn oneshots enemies just as fast. But historically, Nocturne has gone with a tankier bruiser build more akin to that of a true diver. So why is Nocturne classed as an Assassin, when he's been building bruiser much more in the past

This is funny, because Nocturne's tanky build was the build that lasted the shortest. It was only good for a short time after titanic hydra release, and back with the meta golem build. Calling him not an assassin when his best builds atm are full damage is annoying to no end to Nocturne players. From release he was an assassin. He played like one back then too. His tanky builds were only temporary; to say there are defining of him is ridiculous.

SickAnto1 votes

I think Rengar is better a Diver then an Assassin, because, with is theme is realy perfect. I mean, he is generally "I never stop hunt" so he NEVER escape but continues to fight for more tropheis.

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