I feel like Assassins already had pretty decent counterplay.

ABlueQuaker·Dec 30, 2016·2 votes·558 views

Don't get me wrong, some Champions and Items were a tad overtuned, but most of the time (Bronze-High Plat) the only times I really saw Assassins being played effectively were against Squishies who neglected their teams, or teams who neglected their squishies. The counterplay was there. The window in which Assassins could be peeled off Carries was there. Good carries let their teammates peel them, and good teammates peeled their carries.

Extending the window for assassins to assassinate has simply given room for individual champions to self-peel, escape or simply out-lifesteal and out-damage the would-be assassin.

An isolated squishy has no right to live after they facecheck an assassin.

14 Comments

RalanrDec 30, 20161 votes

Then what was the counterplay to that assassin that got ridiculously fed after the repeated kills?

Even Darius can get kited when he's fed if you play right.

PennsDec 30, 20161 votes

Annie for example just got a little buff in the mage update, not her "burst window increased", pretty much every mage can still get their instakill combo off instantly.. It wouldnt be a problem with assassins if they did it for every class imo.

RalanrDec 30, 20161 votes

Remember that unlike assassins, Annie has no escape outside of flash or protobelt. Both with decent cooldowns and one she has to purchase.

bbQsauçeDec 30, 20161 votes

[deleted]

RalanrDec 30, 20161 votes

A burst mage since assassins can't do their job.

DoktorKaiserDec 30, 20161 votes

I tend to disagree, some of them left you with less then 1 second to react which is barely doable if you are a normal human being or had some other toxic form of gameplay such as targeted ability 1 shot, 1 shot from invisibility or 1 shot after untargetability. Some of them however were ok but those were mostly left untouched.

ABlueQuakerDec 30, 20161 votes

Most Assassins could only instagib someone with a full, uninterrupted combo.

Fizz shouldn't have been touched. He was healthy post-Tank Fizz nerfs. Should be re-classed as a Diver and Balanced accordingly. Mark -> Hunt gameplay with Spears and Traps has some real potential. Nocturne should be re-classed as a Diver and Balanced accordingly. Yi should be re-classed as a Diver and Balanced accordingly. Rengar is fine now. Maybe get rid of the Crit coming out of stealth. Ekko is mostly fine now. Shaco needs a full rework. Zed shouldn't have been touched. Evelynn was mostly untouched. Akali should be re-classed as a Diver and Balanced accordingly. LeBlanc is Ranged so she should be re-classed as a Burst Mage and Balanced accordingly. Kha'zix. should be re-classed as a Diver and Balanced accordingly. Talon needs to be changed so he lies somewhere between his current kit and his old one. Katarina is mostly fine now. Balance tweaks probably required. Kassadin is an odd case. Not sure whether or not he should be re-classed as a Diver and Balanced accordingly.

DoktorKaiserDec 30, 20161 votes

Here is what I thin about assassins/kind of assassins:

Zed - very well designed and fair to play against in teamfights, kind of oppressive early game, was in a perfect place and didnt need any tweeks

Talon - was kind of boring, used to get free trades with silence, after that being removed was kind of shitty but could have been fairly countered with pink wards, now he seems ok and fun, but feels like he is missing something to make him just a bit stronger

Katarina - was easy, unfun to play against and had really low counterplay if you were a squishy before the rework, yes 1 stun fucked her but her combo would kill a squishy in 1 second if fed even a little bit, and I am saying that as someone who played Kata very very much, especially season 6, now she feels perfect and I dare say that her rework is by far the best out of the assassin reworks

LeBlanc - her combo was stupid and unfun to play against, especially when she had silence in her kit, now she feels ok, she didnt need this new extreme waveclear and it fairly got removed, also the chains are way too long now, they should halve the range and compensate somewhere else

Ahri - still not nerfed for god knows what reason, can kill you by spamming R and W around you while missing her actual skillshots, so she needs some nerfs (which she wont get because of hentai watching fapping nerd army defending her)

Fizz - god will they ever fix this champion, the worst thing is that he was kind of balanced before the update, but now he has an impossible to miss shark so it feels even more retarded to play against him, at least the tank build seems to be dead, he has a problem that his "identity" is his toxic E which makes him very hard to balance

Ekko - is stupid because most of his AP damage is on his E which is his "noob skill" , also the fucking tank build that lasted 6 months and ,unlike fizz, still fucking works, he needs a rework because he is too overloaded for him to need to go glass cannon

Diana - should not really be an assassin, but usually is when snowballing, she can 1 shot multiple targets in second, she needs some rework to be more tanky, more dps and less burst

Akali - probably the most toxic AP assassin because she requires the least amount of brain usage to play, if any, can snowball retardedly hard, but has 0 utility to help if she didnt snowball, making her a terrible design, needs VGU asap

Rengar - wish they deleted this champion who has been a problem since his release but unlike some champs that they ignore (Lee Sin) they actually tried to fix Rengar multiple times and failed miserably every fucking time, they NEED to drop his theme, drop the fucking ulti concept, drop the bonetooth bullshit and make a new champ that wont feel frustrating af to play against

KhaZix - here is what Rengo should have been, also posed a problem multiple times but ultimately he is very well designed and was balanced untill the update gave him needless power boost, but after the recent meta shift he is ok again, still I feel like they should have left him as he was, now there is even less decision about what to evolve first, if you dont do Q-E-R-W you are an idiot honestly

Shaco - was always annoying, but never had any problem with him, update was pretty dumb and pushed him to high win rate, now he is gutted so I really dont understand what the fuck is riot doing with this on

Titanium70Dec 30, 20161 votes

Zed - very well designed and fair to play against in teamfights, kind of oppressive early game, was in a perfect place and didnt need any tweeks

Yeah, he was fine - banned out of 80% of all games - but that's not important, right? Zeds laning was (and still is) BS! Save Manaless Waveclear should not exists and especially not on an assassin. The only reason why Zed draws no or less hate currently is the lethality change, weakening his early to a point where it is manageable - resulting in a lategame being quite sad.

I agree with you considering the rest of your list though... although I dont consider Ahri that bad, maybe because of my matchups.

DoktorKaiserDec 30, 20161 votes

Dk I get rekt by Ahri because I main immobile mages, but considering Zed I feel like he was broken because of the meta and he is generally broken when armor pen is good, but I feel like I have tons of counterplay when facing his ulti in teamfights, I can flash, zhonyas, get peeled and tons of other stuff, unlike something like Rengar which is like puffff you died in 0.3 seconds enjoy your game.

Titanium70Dec 31, 20161 votes

When teamfights are about to start Zed sure has/had enough counterplay, sure.

What I hate about this Champ is.. a little weird. xD

I hate him because it's impossible to snowball against him. Sure you won your lane after sending him 0-1 and he wont be much of a problem - at this point i was never able to kill him if he decides to afk farm. And yeah it's good to win your lane but being 1-0 doesnt help if the bot does the famous 0-6. xD

And if your roam.. yeah against an AD with waveclear - instant tower lose. just my 2 cent =P

DoktorKaiserDec 31, 20161 votes

Thats true, I guess I never looked at it that way because I mostly play mages who can just farm it out :D

Miror BDec 30, 20161 votes

Yeah, I actually don't get why people think assassins are overpowered (especially in bronze). There are pretty good ways to counter them (running a tank like naut or my "patented" kench mid seems to be the easiest), and feeding a tank in the early game basically makes the map your own personal playground. People in general need to stop complaining about how things affect the current meta and more about how they affect the landscape as a whole, as unless something is good into more than 60% of the matchups then you can hardly call it "annoying".