The spellthieves abuse just proves 2 things

Horse Grenades · 2019-02-13T18:09:12.337Z

Bounty system is bad Riots slow removal of vision in the game is forcing pro play to find innovative ways to not play blind

Horse Grenades·Feb 13, 2019·4 votes·1,047 views

Bounty system is bad
Riots slow removal of vision in the game is forcing pro play to find innovative ways to not play blind

14 Comments

Et Tu Geddn XNa Feb 13, 20192 votes

They didnt use frostmancy because of free wards later on. Its more because u can make ur opposing laners life a living hell and u wont have to bother about Csing

Horse GrenadesFeb 13, 20191 votes

and......vision?

Et Tu Geddn XNa Feb 13, 20191 votes

They vision is a + thing but not the reason they ever used it. Think of the vision as an added bonus but making ur opposing laners a pure hell the real reason

Horse GrenadesFeb 13, 20191 votes

So you would say... primarily.. it's the bounty system abuse.. secondarily the vision?

iiGazeiiFeb 13, 20192 votes

It's not a bounty system abuse. They're abusing a support item + Kleptomancy to get just as much or more gold than they would going after minions without actually interacting with the lane. CSing is an important part of the laning phase because it pulls you into conflict with your opponent. If you go for CS, that's a window where your opponent can punish you, forcing you to trade health for that gold. If somebody can generate gold without needing to hit minions, only their lane opponent, they can just wail on that person to punish them for CS while still getting all the gold they need.

Horse GrenadesFeb 13, 20191 votes

And giving your lane opponent a HUGE bounty for the jungler to have

iiGazeiiFeb 13, 20191 votes

CS doesn't give you a huge bounty. Bounty is roughly a 70-30 split between kills and farm, respectively.

Horse GrenadesFeb 13, 20191 votes

That's untrue. This is the actual formula:

If, since their last death, a champion has earned 250 more gold from minions and monsters than the enemy team's average* during that time, their bounty increases by 50 gold, plus another 50 gold for each additional 150 gold their advantage grows by thereafter. MATH *Average is determined by dividing the enemy team's minion and monster gold by four, rather than five, based on the four sources of income on Summoner's Rift (top/mid/bot/jungle). Modes with smaller teams divide by the number of champs per team instead (ex. 3 for Twisted Treeline).

ChaosReynFeb 13, 20191 votes

Spellthief strat actually LOST you money in a solo lane overall, unless you are in super low elo where nobody can cs, or your opponent played in such a way that you got more gold from getting a kill or assist by jungle gank to allow you to get an early lead on your early game champion. Even with Frostfang (the upgrade) you could get a maximum of about 45 gold with it per wave (15 gold x 3 procs max) That's less gold than the MELEE MINIONS ALONE in one wave. So you get 45 gold, make sure to get the cannon minion in the cannon wave, that's around 100g. an enemy laner that's actively csing gets around 160g, and for the record, has probably still traded evenly with you if they're not a literal vegetable. The only reason the strategy worked was because the opposing laner thought "oh look, frostfang top (or mid, whatever). Freelo!" ran it in, and ended up getting ganked...then they lost exp and gave their opponent time to get free cs without worrying about the lockout of their support item...and then they got either zoned out or ganked again.

But sure...let's gut the supports over their other laner's cheese strategy, even though anyone with an IQ higher than -6 would just freeze lane on their side and make sure to get all the cs for their superior income and have their jungler come give the guy anal while he sits painfully overextended and thirsty for a spellthief proc.

Horse GrenadesFeb 13, 20191 votes

Lol random down vote with no counter point

CryoThornFeb 13, 20191 votes

You forgot a third thing.

Supports gain too much income. Way too much. Champions that used to be mid laners, ( Zyra Annie Morgana Velkoz Veigar Xerath Lux ) Are all seeing play as supports, and due to this, they are getting nerfed out of mid. This didn't start happening until Riot kept increasing support item income. Now they have the safety of a secondary laner, whilst being able to just bully enemies out of lane, and get rewarded for it.

The fact that comboing Spellthiefs/Ancient Coin with Klepto is netting them more income than a perfectly CS'ing lane opponent shows that these items are overtuned. Now the hotfix has further increased their income.

rubberduckie666Feb 13, 20192 votes

i get your point but morgana annie lux and zyra were being picked long before supports had even slightly decent income.

annie has had her long range autos and while not "on demand" a very strong stun that basically cant miss.

morg with her long as hell root+spellshield+ult made her a obvious support pick, even if her income was gutted she would still be picked.

lux is just a kill lane with some utlity, would still be picked regardless of income. just not as often.

zyras in lane poke is strong as hell and her teamfight potential is HUGE, even if her income was gutted she would still be picked. just build differently.

brand and them though? yea get them the fuck outa here. at best they should be some dumb cheesy pick. not regularly seen.

IShowerWithUrDadFeb 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You forgot a third thing.

Supports gain too much income. Way too much. Champions that used to be mid laners, ( ) Are all seeing play as supports, and due to this, they are getting nerfed out of mid. This didn't start happening until Riot kept increasing support item income. Now they have the safety of a secondary laner, whilst being able to just bully enemies out of lane, and get rewarded for it.

The fact that comboing Spellthiefs/Ancient Coin with Klepto is netting them more income than a perfectly CS'ing lane opponent shows that these items are overtuned. Now the hotfix has further increased their income.

actually, these champs are active in the botlane only because it was the meta in soloq(heavy dmg botlane), not because they get more money. They get much less gold from being support, unless they can snowball and get kills

ChaosReynFeb 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

actually, these champs are active in the botlane only because it was the meta in soloq(heavy dmg botlane), not because they get more money. They get much less gold from being support, unless they can snowball and get kills

I would have to agree with this: over half of that list were being played as "supports" long before support income even existed. That's why "support" ended up becoming a meme in the first place.

The REAL third thing you missed is how it completely guts almost every OTHER type of support besides "supports" by lowering their ability to be relevant past the first 6 minutes of the game. They're not being nerfed OUT OF mid...they're being nerfed because they're ALREADY OUT of mid, and if everyone's going to play them as "supports", Riot's balance team is going to BALANCE THEM as supports.

If you want to save the mid lane potential of these guys, get the hell back to mid lane.