Can we finally reduce this ridiculous stat buff? "Courage: ACTIVE: Garen reduces incoming physical and magic damage by 60% and has 60% Tenacity icon Tenacity for the first 0.75 seconds. For the rest of the duration Garen reduces incoming physical and magic damage by 30%."
Change it to 30-45% and 15% It's ridiculous when he doesn't have to build tank, to be a tank.
Khristophoros7 votesGaren is actually pretty weak.
LatetotheRace2 votesNot even close, but ok
redniwediS2 votesHe hasn't had a meaningful change in ages, and has had his power in a vacuum lowered a bit by certain item changes.
He is almost exactly the same as he was when he last had a 49% win rate. The only difference now is the number of people playing champions that are inherently weak to Garen compared to the number of people playing champions that are inherently strong against Garen.
Garen is still just as weak to his counters, people are just not playing them anymore.
BeatzBoyFTW3 votesThat would just completely render him useless in almost any situation of the fight, especially for a champion that has close to no mobility, gapcloser & burst.
LatetotheRace2 votesI disagree. Durability steroids are a terrible excuse at making a kit viable. If you want him to be viable, or "useful" then he needs a rework at his base, but since riot isn't going to do that, then he needs to be unviable. My proposed change will actually force Garen into a logical build path. Want to do damage? Then build damage. Want to be tanky? Then build tank. This way he can no longer half ass a tank build and still do a decent amount of damage.
redniwediS2 votesGaren's W, minus the 0.75 seconds of increased damage reduction and tenacity, is the exact same as it was back in season 1. You're intending to nerf the ability to a lower state than it was back then, and than it has been at every point in Garen's history.
That's a bit excessive.
LatetotheRace2 votesI don't think it is. You can't compare essentially anything between the two seasons. Not only that, but items like black cleaver and deadmans are so powerful on "juggernauts" it already serves to solve a lot of tank-buster and mobility/sticking power problems garen already had. The incredible damage reduction is excessive as it's just tacked onto his kit. If his passive resistances were instead part of the active itself, I could support his kit more. But until either of those happen, he's going to become dominant soon.
FireDrizzle1 votesDeadmans is trash now.
redniwediS2 votesI'm just going to quote my other post on here.
He hasn't had a meaningful change in ages, and has had his power in a vacuum lowered a bit by certain item changes.
He is almost exactly the same as he was when he last had a 49% win rate. The only difference now is the number of people playing champions that are inherently weak to Garen compared to the number of people playing champions that are inherently strong against Garen.
Garen is still just as weak to his counters, people are just not playing them anymore.
There is absolutely no way Garen will become dominant, unless the meta somehow prevents all of his counters from being viable. This spike in win rate Garen is experiencing is fully due to the play rate of champions that Garen does well against going up, and has nothing to do with Garen's strength itself.
Just play one of his counters and don't make obvious mistakes that a skilled Garen can capitalize off of.
BeatzBoyFTW2 votesEven Darius is more viable than Garen is right now, and Garen is not even "that" impressive in the current balance. He even gets his ass beaten by a simple Teemo. I don't see how taking away his one & only defensive kit would balance him out, and aside from that, his current kit doesn't really need to warrant a rework or even a small GU.
I checked your OP.GG, the Garen you fought & lost against only has Black Cleaver before your match ended, which is already one of his significant damaging item. So it does makes sense that he was dealing a ton of damage in your perspective, although it puzzles me that the enemy Garen dealt the least damage in his team.
Madsin252 votesI honestly don't give two shits about his defenses.
I care that I know if I get Q'd I am dead and the fucked up thing is I COULD RETALIATE IF I WASNT SILENCED THE ENTIRE TIME!!!
redniwediS3 votesThe silence lasts 1.5 seconds. Before the Juggernaut it lasted 2.5 seconds, so it's already had a very significant reduction.
Most of his counters counter him pretty well, and all have strong auto-attacks, so maybe don't play a caster against him if you're having trouble?
Hexs Fortune2 votesMobile AD need something to counter them in this meta. I've found Garen's kit does the job.
Let him do his job.
LatetotheRace1 votesThen remove the shred on his E. The problem is that he can kill both mobile squishies as you've said, and tanks. That's a pretty dangerous spot to be in.
Hexs Fortune2 votesThen remove the shred on his E. The problem is that he can kill both mobile squishies as you've said, and tanks. That's a pretty dangerous spot to be in.
He struggles to kill tanks who posses the awareness to build both armor and magic resist against him.
The shred on his E doesn't benefit him as much as you think. The first four rotations lack the debuff and his e CD is long enough that the debuff falls off before he can get full use of it. It's there for teamfights.
His ult is magic dmg 9/10 times he's fighting a tank and he can't afford to build magic pen against high MR targets.
Lastly: At the end of the day he is a juggernaut. No instant gapclosers/ escapes affords him power elsewhere.
LatetotheRace1 votesHis Q in tandem with black cleaver allows him to stick to pretty much whomever. Not only that, but MR really doesn't do a whole lot to his ult, as it's an execute with exponential scaling. (Up to 525 base damage and 40% target's missing HP) You're right about the lack luster shred on his E sure, but when you combine it with black cleaver it's a harsh 49% armor reduction.
Hexs Fortune1 votesHis Q in tandem with black cleaver allows him to stick to pretty much whomever. Not only that, but MR really doesn't do a whole lot to his ult, as it's an execute with exponential scaling. (Up to 525 base damage and 40% target's missing HP) You're right about the lack luster shred on his E sure, but when you combine it with black cleaver it's a harsh 49% armor reduction.
Cleaver is weak on him in terms of dueling/ splitpush. By the time he has full armor shred stacks his sustained damage is over.
It's great for team fights with an AD team though.
Other juggernauts have built in percent armor pen that they can use with their full kit rotation. Take for example Darius or Nasus.
LatetotheRace1 votesDarius is a monstrosity of a champion. He has things like free farming, low mana costs, and that free armor pen is entirely unnecessary and could do with removal if I'm completely honest. Darius is just another terrible champion from "CertainlyT"
SwiftKitten881 votesgaren is indeed too strong.. (escpially with 
)but i honestly think there are much worse right now
i think the biggest issues with him that i woudl address if we were to address him are
his immunity to CC, and the fact that is just broken AS for people who don't normally build crit and like to burst.
Summonah123691 votesW/E I got fed on Garen when I tried him once, not cus I was good or felt he was broken. But cus my opponent was a Goddamn Alistar lmao.