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Sylas should have his heal looked at

Akali is SO HOT··17 votes·9,842 views

Currently on the PBE: http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html Chain Lash (Q) First hit damage AP ratio increased from 60% to 70%

Kingslayer (W) damage increased from 60/90/120/150/180 to 60/100/40/180/220 healing increased from 50/80/110/140/170 to 60/80/100/120/140 heal AP ratio increased from 35% to 45%

After playing against him some more it looks to me like his heal might be a little too powerful. For reference, Vlad's targeted heal can heal him for 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 (+ 35% AP). At rank 9, Vlad can heal for about the same as Sylas does with Crimson Rush. This doesn't take into account the fact that Sylas has his heal doubled when below 40% health which means he currently can get a 340 + 70%AP heal at rank 9 and at rank 1 it's 100 + 60%AP. Of course you can't directly compare the two because Vlad is ranged, has an easier time procing it, etc. However, considering Sylas' heal is also targeted with a hefty amount of damage as well as the fact that he doesn't really have all that much trouble getting to a target (especially in the early game) it is a pretty insane heal.

His heal can make him insanely hard to push out of lane because of how easy it is to proc and makes his all ins super crazy as well. Doesn't really feel fun playing against someone who can win a trade or all in because he used his targeted heal. I would consider lowering the base by a lot more and increasing the AP Ratio more to compensate. Another option could be to make the threshold for the double heal a lot lower (20 - 30%). He's already in a solid spot for a new champion so I'm kinda confused as to why he is even being buffed in the first place tbh.

30 Comments

Anchorit Wracaj3 votes

Is riot serious? https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/overview/diamond Lets look at Diamond win rate. Sylas have 16.3% Pick rate,49.3% Win rate,36.1% Ban rate. If SYLAS needs a buff.Then surely following champions need. Why the F you buff him,if he have HIGHER WIN RATE,HIGHER BAN RATE,HIGHER PICK RATE Then following champions. Lux is at 7.9% Pick rate,49.3% Win rate,0.4% Ban rate,she needs WAY MORE BUFFS THEN SYLAS,AND IS WEAKER THEN SYLAS IN EVERY RATE Illaoi is at 2.5% Pick rate,49.3% Win rate,1.7% Ban rate,HE NEEDS WAY MORE BUFFS THEN SYLAS,AND IS WEAKER THEN SYLAS IN EVERY RATE Kassadin is at 6.8% Pick rate,49.3% Win rate,15.7% Ban rate.HE NEEDS WAY MORE BUFFS THEN SYLAS,AND IS WEAKER THEN SYLAS IN EVERY RATE Xin zhao is at 7.7% Pick rate,49.2% Win rate,10.3% Ban rate,HE NEEDS WAY MORE BUFFS THEN SYLAS,AND IS WEAKER THEN SYLAS IN EVERY RATE. Same goes for Leblanc,Singed,Gragas,Cassiopeia,Corki,Braum,Caitlyn,Nautilus,Veigar,Shyvana,Galio,Fiora,Master yi,Diana,Pyke,Lee sin,Maokai,Hecarim,Orianna,Nasus,Sion,Tryndamere,Shen,Alistar,Karma,Jhin,Nocturne,Cho gath,Urgot,Viktor,Graves,Syndra,Rakan,Amumu,Neeko,Gnar,Gankplank,Garen,Xayah,Ornn,Trundle,Varus,Tahm Kench,Mundo,Ryze,Aatrox,Akali.

So where is BUFFS to that champions?

Riot is just buffing their favorite champions,just go F ur self u trash company. Sylas maybe needs buffs..BUT WHEN EVERY SINGLE OF THESE CHAMPION GETS BUFFED BEFORE,CUS ITS CLEARLY THEY'RE IN WEAKER POSITION THEN SYLAS. Every single champion I listed,have 1.Lower Pick rate,2.Lower Win rate,3Lower ban rate. And yeh..you decided to buff sylas. Ure buffing champions u just like to play. What a fkin company.

Lovelle1 votes

This is the unbridled truth, it's just favoritism. Also, Illaoi is female.

Boatwhistle2 votes

A sylas maxing heal is a weak sylas if you have grievous wounds, he loses so much of the value he invests in from this. He needs that heal in team fights as though people build tank on him he is a dmg dealer... that one half second e stun doesn't cut it to mae him a peeler.

wildfox9T5 votes

Doesn't really feel fun playing against someone who can win a trade or all in because he used his targeted heal. I would consider lowering the base by a lot more and increasing the AP Ratio more to compensate.

do you peolple even read?

the problem is in early game where many champ don't have the tools for facing his shields + heals + mobility + CC,in lategame it's fine and a better scaling would be a buff for his teamfight

VolatileAkali1 votes

Akali needs healing more than Sylas and it got removed.

JeaneGreene1 votes

I’m still confused as to why Riot removed the heal

VolatileAkali1 votes

Because sustain-less champions are problematic with it, but Akali is a special case. It is literally one of the core identities of old Akali and the remnants of her in this abomination of a champion.

Vyuprax1 votes

same thing with aatrox, and look what has happened to that poor lad

VolatileAkali1 votes

Not gonna lie Aatrox identity is a champion that uses heals, same with Akali and champs like Vlad too.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

I mean, in fairness, Vlad also get's his natural HP growth with AP along with his sustain, along with his Ult's HP gain, along with intargetibility with his pool. Sylas has a big shield, and a big heal. I've not a problem with his heal in lane, so much as I do with his heal late game, or in team fights, but even then, somebody has aught to have Grevious Wounds by that point.

KFCeytron1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7t23KEdW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-24T09:20:08.689+0000)

I mean, in fairness, Vlad also get's his natural HP growth with AP along with his sustain, along with his Ult's HP gain, along with intargetibility with his pool. Sylas has a big shield, and a big heal. I've not a problem with his heal in lane, so much as I do with his heal late game, or in team fights, but even then, somebody has aught to have Grevious Wounds by that point.

Just by the way here, but "aught" means "anything" (or "nothing") - it's "ought" that means "should."

wildfox9T1 votes

vlad have HP cost in his abilities,he doesn't have strong CCs or dashes and he have a worse all-in (vlad is way more telegraphed than sylas) and he's easier to poke since both his Q and E are slow and requies him to walk on you (while sylas's Q have a good range and damage which makes him harder to poke even as melee)

i'm not here for saying that sylas is broken or something,but he can be really annoying to face in lane for how hard he is to kill

heals,shields and mobility is what counter most burst champions (the ones played in his lane) and he have all of them,on top of that he have some CC (one of them being an hard CC)

some champions don't have the damage for killing him through all this defense in early game,and APs don't have an early GW item which makes the things even worse

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

That's why I said you can't directly compare them both. I'm just pointing out that his heal is actually pretty big compared to a lot of other heals in this game. Especially when you consider that it is also targeted.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

I guess it begs the question, is this what is required to have an AP Bruiser, whose damage is much more drawn out? Sylas doesn't have the burst potential a lot of other bruisers do, unless fed, nor does he have as accessible CC. His survivability in a teamfight is purely reliant on his ability to heal. Makes me wonder what we could do with Diana if we took away some of her burst in exchange for a heal on her Pull-in, maybe have some fun and make it heal more when she pulls in more people.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

The bigger problem is that there isn't really any good AP Bruiser items in the game so they have to give AP Bruisers really good defensive mechanics that can be unfun to play against and sometimes overpowered. I would rather Sylas get his heal nerfed and compensated in some different way so he's not as frustrating to play against. They could still give him the ability to do a lot of healing in teamfights and later stages of the game. The only problem I'm really having atm is his early - early mid game healing.

This whole thing is really only part of a larger problem, but the smaller things can be given band aid fixes that sorta help the problem for the time being.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Personally, I've had a worst time dealing with his CDs than his healing in the early game, but that's just me. That said, having a bruiser item implemented doesn't address the times in laning phase in which the healing might be a problem, and then we ask the question again, does he need that healing to get along fair in Lane? Normal bruisers have the ability to buy lifesteal, and while Sylas can go gunblade, it's not the best rush item when he desperately needs to bulk up.

I think at this point it is firmly a design conflict, or at least an foreign place for us. Sylas is the first AP Melee bruiser that hasn't just felt like a Burst mage. Even when Fed, his design spreads out his damage so far that you're still given a fair chance. A familiar case with Riot releasing Melee champions, a constant debate on "Do they need it and when do they."

On My Kill List1 votes

the reason why sylas heal is so big is due to grievous wounds being so easily obtainable in its current state. once upon a time grievous wounds used to be alot more rarer now almost every mage has it built and every ad champ can get it easily too. the only times his heal has any power is when and before gw comes into play. after it comes into to play you are basically making his healing non existent. (also it does not help that ignite has been broken for years and is also next to flash one of the most spammed summoners)

On My Kill List1 votes

infact grievous wounds being so easily obtainable is literally why riot had to overbuff mundos heal to its insane current amount.

Frosted Tips1 votes

The problem with Sylas and every other AP Bruiser in the game is that Riot has consistently neglected to make items for them so they have admitted to giving the really strong kits and abilities to make up for the fact the have extremely sub optimal builds. So blame Riots laziness on why his heal is so strong.

SiG DxD1 votes

true and maybe lock his heal at a number not giving more health the lower he is because at very low hp if he managed to press the button bam 60% heal

Titanium701 votes

What exactly do you wan to turn him into?

Sylas is NOT an Assassin! He's absolute garbage when building squishy since his DMG rotation is so damn slow. Sylas is a fighter/bruiser by all mean and needs some form of sustain, locking this behind an AP-Ratio he will and can NEVER use effectively is nonsense!

I also don't get why you think it's OK for an Assassin to have a full heal but not ok for a Bruieser to have 50% heal???

Anime Fizz1 votes

W max is absolutely broken in lane.

I honestly feel like he shouldnt heal at all unless he hits the hp threshold, and the later should be reduced to 20% hp.

Antyss081 votes

We full build team vs this broken champion made by jellyfishbrain rito team: Stats dont include how much dmg did he absorb with his shild but look at heal and I ask why the f he can heal himself?????????? https://imgur.com/a/TtToeSj

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

I mean, Morde's heal is 100 / 170 / 240 / 310 / 380 (+ 60% AP), but I don't see anyone complaining. Maybe because he doesn't have 3 dashes and CC, but he still has a really strong heal.

I think they should nerf Sylas's heal and buff his Q up tbh

Ragnaveil1 votes

Why the skillshot? Why not just buff his passive's AP ratio or something considering its the core thing about him.

Raid Boss Morde1 votes

His Q just feels useless and it might make people start maxing it instead of W

Ragnaveil1 votes

Its not that useless considering with 40% cdr the thing is on like a 4 second cooldown with a pretty decent slow.

RakeySnakey1 votes

Here's my biggest question vs a Sylas. Every champ has a trade pattern with windows to trade back. The issue is that unless Sylas uses his w (which if he's smart he'll save onto) you never have a window to punish him using any other ability. If he Q's the wave, and then tries to E onto you and misses both parts of his E with both dmg spells on cd, you still can not trade with him because he'll either take it to get him low enough to hit his W heal threshold or he wont and just sustain it back and you're still stuck in a lose/lose situation.

Hexs Fortune1 votes

Riot will eventually nerf Sylas healing because it's functionally doing the same thing Ornn and Urgot W did, allowing him to win every trade. Until then I'll be banning.

Zeppelins circus1 votes

The real question is why a half naked man in Edwin jeans can suddenly heal 40% of his health like some fricking Vampire.

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