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Some champions are designed to actually PROTECT their team.

Snowman Arc··6 votes·1,575 views

Why is this concept so freaking hard to understand or accept? Especially for Lulu and Janna.

There are champions in the game whose job is to support and protect other teammates, mainly the ADC, and they way of doing so is by shielding them from taking damage, granting them temporary HP and peeling enemies off with soft or hard CC. Their job is to PROTECT. They deal close to no damage, they are not tanky themselves, either. They also don't have engage options ( I wouldn't call a flash Janna R engage). The only serve to protect.

Janna's shield being 5 seconds long with a 5.5 second CD at max rank and 45% CDR? That's her job. Lulu having it a 6 seconds duration? That's her job. Being able to constantly shield a teammate and protect them from any thread IS THEIR JOB.

So, no, nerfing the shield strength or the shield duration shouldn't happen (responding to the ever-ending threads requesting this vs assassins). If their shields are unreliable, short duration or weak, then what's the point of playing protectors / enchanters? You want counterplay to that? How about you let one teammate attack the support who's gonna be weak, and then chain an attack with another teammate to the carry they are supposed to protect?

35 Comments

FOR JUSTICE6 votes

yeah its kind of stupid really, especially with assasins.

*sees an opportunity to assassinate a squishy

*sees a janna nearby

*knows damn well in advance the damage they are about to do could be ultimately negated and possibly be killed in a turn

*goes in anyway

its also kind of weird how people know they will do everything in their power to protect that carry, so rather then going for the carry, why does no one ever consider going for the one making them untouchable?

BLIGHTBRINGER5 votes

*Then creates a post on boards about assassins being weak

Tokogawaruf2 votes

"So i more or less blindly run into 2 People alone and didn´t get the BIG LCS Outplay 1v2 Kill, that surely means that Assassins are bad in general and need buffs whilst they both need nerfs"

Every Assassin Post ever

Mhihnj2 votes

Why does no one ever consider going for the one making them untouchable?

You do know that janna and lulu can peel for themselves as well right?

Wouldn't splitpushing be a better idea? Someone will have to retaliate and if it's an enemy tank then the other team will be missing a frontline and reduce the enemy's chances of engaging giving your carries more breathing room.

Poske1 votes

Because then they die from the carry? Not to mention support build off tanky ussualy

I dont think you understand where the issue is. Support is 24/7 near teammates in high elo

Good luck taking out the AD Carry

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

Because then they die from the carry? Not to mention support build off tanky ussualy

I dont think you understand where the issue is. Support is 24/7 near teammates in high elo

Good luck taking out the AD Carry

Yeah, the issue isn't that Support does their job protecting someone. It's that they do their job too well.

I mean, if today the situation is reverse, that assassins can kill a target regardless whether or not they're shielded and properly peeled by their teammates. Do you just shrug and say "Meh, assassins are meant to kill people, ain't they?" Of course not, and by the same token, this "it's their job" argument doesn't work for support either, at least not in the current scenery/climate and context.

BLIGHTBRINGER5 votes

Because apparently the defensive side of the game is "broken" and the side where everyone is now able to one shot each other no matter who they play isn't.

Big Lincoln4 votes

lets never nerf anyone who's too strong at doing something because its their job to do it

the mind of the eternal support main

Snowman Arc2 votes

Too strong? It's not like Janna grants 1k shield or something. It's only big enough if she actually gets enough items. At max E rank, which is at least level 9, she probably only has an Ardent Censer. Her shield strength at that point is probably just around 350 HP with all the buffs she can get. Meanwhile, at that stage of the game, assuming Janna maxes E, which is stupid btw, any other carry in the game is probably already level 12 at least, because of xp share and support roaming to ward etc, which means that for any carry to bypass that 350 shield isn't that hard. And this is supposed to be the MOST OPPRESSIVE shield in the game.

remakoro1 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ApEIEAg9-live-footage-of-riotrepertoir-openly-admitting-a-serious-problem-in-the-game?comment=000a0000000000000000

Some numbers. In short - you aint wrong.

Big Lincoln1 votes

yeah cos everyone is complaining about janna in lane right? lol

Snowman Arc1 votes

Well, if you reach the point in the game where Janna actually gets full build so that she can bust out those 600 damage shields, then you have done way more wrongs in that game for Janna to be your problem. Also, if Janna reaches her full build, doesn't that mean she should be as strong as any other champion at what she does? Meaning that she SHOULD be shielding allies for that much?

FOR JUSTICE2 votes

you know its the struggle when even the supports meager salary manages to get full build

remakoro4 votes

Funniest shit is that in most PvP games you kill support/healer first. I usually get COMPLETELY ignored for the WHOLE game playing some super squishy animal. And then they will bitch about support ruining it for them. Its clear that those great assasin main just dont see support as anything more than mage minion. And because of that they get so frustrated when things go wrong because of those strange minions that give lots of gold. Tanky top laners can defend ADC just as good. Midlaners can shield for twice that support can do. Hell. They can burst them before they even get chance to lay their hands on anyone. And yet there is inifnitely less bitching about them. WELL THEY ARE REAL PLAYERS. Shielding with targeted shield as Orianna takes infinitely more effort and skill than shielding with targeted shield as Janna . Right? Stunning someone with skillshot Anivia is so much harder than stunning someone with skillshot Janna And no champion ever had panic Janna buttons Ekko that Elise allowed Hecarim them Cassiopeia to Kayn turn Vladimir tides. And ofc! Targeted CC is simply bullshit! Lulu cannot be single Alistar champion Annie with Blitzcrank targeted Fiddlesticks undodgable Malzahar CC Maokai thats TwistedFate waaay Udyr overpowered Skarner right? Renekton I mean its not like beside Lulu there is even a single champion with such reliable CC Leona That shit on supports Lissandra has to go Rammus

And its not like Assasins have much shorter CD on their abilities plus tons of escape tools which allows them exploit that window where defensive abilities or items gonna be on cd for summoner 3 more item 3383 than item 3107 100 seconds...

Nyarlathοtep

And ofc! Targeted CC is simply bullshit! cannot be single champion with targeted undodgable CC thats waaay overpowered right?

To be fair, these comparisons are kinda bullshit. Alistar's kit requires him to be close (about melee range), annie's every 4th spell will stun ( its not in demand lets say), blitz has hook and a single target knock up melee aa, fiddle's fear is strong no doubt but as a whole fiddle is kinda weak and not so oppressive (thats why there is not much hate on him compared to janna and lulu), malzahar's hard cc is his ulti which also roots him in place, maokai is a tank tanks are expected to have reliable hard cc and his root has a mediocre range, tf minus his ulti is immobile and he has to choose between his low damage stun, aoe dmg slow or single target nuke, udyr/skarner/rene needs to be melee range.

Whimsy (lulu's w) has a good range, is a silence, slow and a disarm on a relatively low mana cost. Im not saying lulu is op or anything but fk her w.

Dead flag blues2 votes

Because these champions are too rewarding for no effort involved.

Snowman Arc4 votes

Because having Fizz ulti someone and then dropping on them with his all-in is effort enough.

Infernape2 votes

Then again his ult is a skillshot (that can be dodged) and does pitiful damage unless it's either mid/max range.

Dead flag blues4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7pjLrTjs,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-04-26T12:56:40.190+0000)

Because having Fizz ulti someone and then dropping on them with his all-in is effort enough.

K let's see

Lulu 3 skills on her kit are point-and-click, and the only skillshot she has isn't hard to land Janna 3 skills on her kit are point-and-click, and the only skillshot she has isn't hard to land

Riven let's take her, she tries to engage, out-play everyone by flashing in. Lulu is there, she clicks on Riven, she is negated and out of the fight

Poske3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7pjLrTjs,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2018-04-26T13:31:31.905+0000)

K let's see

Lulu 3 skills on her kit are point-and-click, and the only skillshot she has isn't hard to land Janna 3 skills on her kit are point-and-click, and the only skillshot she has isn't hard to land

Riven let's take her, she tries to engage, out-play everyone by flashing in. Lulu is there, she clicks on Riven, she is negated and out of the fight

Not sure why you got downvoted for stating the truth

Dead flag blues4 votes

{quoted}

Not sure why you got downvoted for stating the truth

Boosted e-girls believing their "mains" are mechanically difficult to play and are totally okay in the game

shrugs

SEKAI1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7pjLrTjs,comment-id=00010000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-26T13:41:00.692+0000)

Boosted e-girls believing their "mains" are mechanically difficult to play and are totally okay in the game

shrugs

Do you have to bring that shit here?

Snowman Arc2 votes

Riven: has 4 mobility spells, 2 hard CC, a big shield, and an execute ultimate. Has the ability to itemize to 40% CDR easily, so her mobility is almost endless, deals enormous damage, which CAN BE AoE and most of her kit isn't that hard to execute, apart from making flashy plays. At this stage, most of her tricks are either not needed to be successful and are common knowledge, to the point that pretty much, with just a bit of practice, anyone can pull off.

I'm not saying that Lulu is as hard to play, but don't kid yourself with the whole high skill cap thing. This is so 2012, where people still didn't know game and champion mechanics.

Scary Door2 votes

This new anti-support circle-jerk is pretty frustrating.

It seems that people just want to be able to 1v2, 1v3 and not have any resistance.

"But then the support shielded/polymorphed/snared me... so unfair!" Oh, you mean the support did their job. I swear, if it were up to the Boards this game would be 4v4 and each side would just have a bot that walks around dropping vision wards every 90 seconds.

Then again, of course this is how the Boards feels, 75% of the playerbase is Bronze or Silver.. so there you go.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Literally, boards are manifested by even more than 75% with low elo players, who have no idea how the game works. Not wanting to shame low elo, but that's the truth.

Sasogwa1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7pjLrTjs,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-04-26T14:15:42.501+0000)

Literally, boards are manifested by even more than 75% with low elo players

I wouldn't be so sure about that, there are quite a bunch of somewhat high (plat/diam/+) posters on boards and most of the low elo restricted complaints (like "nerf Yi pls" "nerf Garen pls") are heavily downvoted

Sasogwa2 votes

While I understand the base argument, I don't think it should apply to the cooldown. It is fair for enchanter supports to have downtime on their respective shields, so that there's a drawback to shielding at the wrong time and there's a window of opportunity for an assassin to play around a support that used his protection tool poorly. I find that logical, don't you?

Snowman Arc2 votes

Well, I can understand that. At the same time, you can't have the MAIN ABILITY of that champion be on a higher cooldown, because then why play those and not play something like Orianna for example. Also, if the shield has a higher cooldown, then in a teamfight, where it can get popped very quickly by a rapid firecannon auto, the support champion feels powerless.

A good change I could potentially see is that the shield has more cooldown overall, but if it used entirely to block damage, then it refunds some CD. This would allow for a healtier teamfighting where your shield is actually fully utilized, but discourage permanently spamming it, because then you wouldn't get the CD refund.

For example, current Janna E CD at rank 5 and 45% CDR is 5.5 seconds. Maybe the can have it so that the CD is actually like 8 seconds, and if the shield is used in its entirety to absorb damage, then you get refunded 2.5 seconds and the ability.

Lauchmelder2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7pjLrTjs,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-26T12:10:16.430+0000)

Why is this concept so freaking hard to understand or accept? Especially for Lulu and Janna.

Because it isn't hard to understand. What IS hard to understand how some people still defend shields.

Snowman Arc2 votes

If shields are so freaking OP that render a lot of champions useless, then why isn't Janna and Lulu being picked in the professional scene? I haven't seen Janna since Worlds, apart from maybe 2-3 times over a big amount of games.

Lauchmelder1 votes

Shields in themselves aren't OP.

STACKING shields is what is OP and that's the problem people complain about.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Stacking shields? If anything, stacking shields is probably at its lowest point lately, seeing how ADC rarely buy Bloodthirster anymore. A couple of seasons back, ADC would have a Locket shield, BT shield, support shield (which was weaker, sure), they even took barrier in some cases. A lot of ADCs were also having the luxury of building Banshee's Veil.

The problem is not the shields. Shields always existed and were always a great defensive tool. The problem is that, even though you still pretty much need the same amount of time to assassinate an ADC as you did couple years ago, right now, the ADCs can counter you back by probably killing you faster. Therefore, the problem isn't that you can't burst through shields, it's that you are gonna die while trying to do so, and rightfully so. If you wanna go 1v2 and except to kill someone and get out, then you have it wrong about the game.

Floupi2 votes

[deleted]

Snowman Arc1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nami Noob,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7pjLrTjs,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-04-26T15:38:10.014+0000)

It's because Lulu/Janna especially need ZERO (but a fucking absolute zero) skill/game knowledge/mechanics/ champion knowledge to still win games and that feels unfair, especially for an enemy support who is working hard to play smartly, while the braindead Janna abuser is just walking behind adc LITERALLY the whole game, and pressing E E E E E E E E E E and sometimes Q W R when someone gets too dangerous...

Being an easy champion Warwick XinZhao Soraka is 100% okay and i love low mechanics champs. Having a WHOLE point-and-click/ point blank kit is not okay at all and doesn't reward good players. All Sona Janna Lulu are doing is clicking spells mindlessly and giving passive stats to teammates. No timing required. No macro or wave management required. No engages, no skillshots, no important cooldown to manage.

I don't care about D5 boosted janna mains downvoting me we all know that these brainless champions are too easy to climb with

Honestly, a brainless Janna will get to gold. A good Janna will get to Diamond. An expert Janna will get Challenger.

Metal Janna1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7pjLrTjs,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-04-26T12:10:16.430+0000)

Why is this concept so freaking hard to understand or accept? Especially for Lulu and Janna.

There are champions in the game whose job is to support and protect other teammates, mainly the ADC, and they way of doing so is by shielding them from taking damage, granting them temporary HP and peeling enemies off with soft or hard CC. Their job is to PROTECT. They deal close to no damage, they are not tanky themselves, either. They also don't have engage options ( I wouldn't call a flash Janna R engage). The only serve to protect.

Janna's shield being 5 seconds long with a 5.5 second CD at max rank and 45% CDR? That's her job. Lulu having it a 6 seconds duration? That's her job. Being able to constantly shield a teammate and protect them from any thread IS THEIR JOB.

So, no, nerfing the shield strength or the shield duration shouldn't happen (responding to the ever-ending threads requesting this vs assassins). If their shields are unreliable, short duration or weak, then what's the point of playing protectors / enchanters? You want counterplay to that? How about you let one teammate attack the support who's gonna be weak, and then chain an attack with another teammate to the carry they are supposed to protect?

I was going to agree with you, but honestly, you think having almost no down time on Janna+Lulu's shields is okay? All abilities should have outplay potential. What's the outplay potential on a shield that's instant to activate, blocks a ton of damage, and can be re-activated as soon as it wears off leaving no window of weakness? See, I main Orianna support, and while she has a shield, it's completely different from a Janna or Lulu shield. It can be used about as often as Lulu's, but wears off quicker (4 seconds as opposed to 6), has to reach the target first before it takes effect, and only blocks roughly one auto or ability. And you know what? No-one is going around calling Orianna's shield OP. Because it has obvious counterplay potential. You can overpower it, you can wait it out, you can run her OOM from using it. None of these are an option with a Janna or Lulu. The one counterplay that all three do have is inability to shield both themselves and the carry.

So yeah, people complaining about Janna's shield need to learn to bait it out, but even so, its cooldown may still be a little short, and it also provides an unnecessary AD buff when it's already a strong enough shielding ability without it.

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