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When I play Garen versus when I play Darius

SquashCannon··2 votes·783 views

When I play Garen I feel a bit more mobile than Darius

When I play Garen I feel like I do zero damage compared to Darius

When I play Garen I feel like a troll since my kit is worthless compared to Darius's kit except for acting as a damage sponge and occasionally getting a great ultimate. I have no CC at all except a mediocre silence. I don't have a pull or a slow like Darius.

When I play Garen I feel like my ultimate is an inferior Noxian guillotine that doesn't reward me at all for getting a successful execute, even on an enemy. And unless the champion getting ulted is the villain, Demacian justice is almost always hilariously inferior to Noxian Guillotine.

When I play Garen I feel like my early game is total AIDS and my late game is reduced to just being a tank that tries to run while being kited to hell. At least with Darius, yes I can get kited, but I have the ability to heavily punish greedy enemies with apprehend.

We all know Garen is weak. Why pick Garen when you can just pick Darius?

EDIT

Could care less if I get downvoted for speaking the truth

21 Comments

Changsty3 votes

Because Garen has stronger in lane sustain with his passive and manaless skillset and has an easier time escaping ganks with Q. He is more forgiving when behind due to villain mechanic.

SquashCannon2 votes

{quoted}

Because Garen has stronger in lane sustain with his passive and manaless skillset and has an easier time escaping ganks with Q. He is more forgiving when behind due to villain mechanic.

"Because Garen has stronger in lane sustain"

XD

No. Decimate has a heal mechanic now, and it's a lot more effective than Garen's since Darius isn't forced to disengage and leave lane to heal. Also, level 1 perseverance has laughable healing and a disgustingly long activation time (being outside of combat).

His villain mechanic doesn't help him out in lane since kills against him don't activate villain.

Changsty1 votes

Assuming you skirmish once every wave, Darius needs to hit two Qs to outheal Garen's passive.

SquashCannon1 votes

{quoted}

Assuming you skirmish once every wave, Darius needs to hit two Qs to outheal Garen's passive.

You can't even quantify that since a lot of it is dependent upon how much time Garen has his laughable early game passive up and how low darius was at the time of healing.

Theorchero2 votes

Because Darius isn't the freelo of the avoid?

Garenitem 3070 item 3512

Sonasaurous2 votes

When I play Garen I shout "DEMACIA!" when I kill Darius.

edit: which, before you get butt hurt like on all the other comments, is what Garen says every time he kills Darius.

SquashCannon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Le Kaikai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7lF2sx4k,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-08-03T20:57:26.452+0000)

When I play Garen I shout "DEMACIA!" when I kill Darius.

edit: which, before you get butt hurt like on all the other comments, is what Garen says every time he kills Darius.

I know that.

Friendly Ram1 votes

Black cleaver+ spin to win. you get a perma speed boost+ armor shred on your E and you end up much tankier then Darius honestly it's all a matter of playstyle.

SquashCannon2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Happy Honker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7lF2sx4k,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-08-03T19:59:40.372+0000)

Black cleaver+ spin to win. you get a perma speed boost+ armor shred on your E and you end up much tankier then Darius honestly it's all a matter of playstyle.

Black cleaver and a single application of hemorrhage gives me an effortless speed boost for over 5 seconds. As Darius, I get the same armor shred that Garen gets and more with my apprehend passive which tacks on 25% total armor penetration.

Garen is tankier on an MR basis (his base armor maxes out at 78 compared to Darius's 98, so 20 of that 30 bonus armor goes into just catching up to Darius's base armor. Not to mention Bonus armor is susceptible to last whisper unlike base armor), but he has lower base HP, and he has zero innate in-combat sustain. Garen can't instantly heal over 1000 HP like Darius can with a decimate. Garen has a temporary 30% damage reduction I guess.

Darius also heavily, HEAVILY, outdamages Garen. This is especially true when you get noxian might. Darius's execute is ALWAYS true damage and gets a reset for execution whereas Garen isn't rewarded in any way whatsoever for succesfuly executing with Demacian Justice.

#What I'm trying to say is that Garen is feeling more like a CC-less tank than a JUGGERNAUT.

redniwediS1 votes

The one good thing about Garen is that he has fewer bad matchups. He can survive against ranged opponents far better than Darius can and has far more tools for playing passively than Darius.

That's not to say Garen couldn't use some quality of life changes, or even a small buff, but he is supposed to be the reliable one of the pair.

Darius, on the other hand, can do far less than Garen when behind. His only defensive skill is his Q, and that doesn't do a whole lot when you're forced to play defensively. Darius can quickly reach the point where he can 2v1 when ahead, but if he has to rely on his opponents getting close to him there's not a whole lot he can do. At least Garen has some speed on his side for moving around the map, rather than just relying on pure killing power to keep him both safe and useful.

As a Juggernaut Darius will still come back mid/late game to some extend regardless of how shut down he was, but Garen has a clear advantage when it comes to safety and surviving bad matchups.

To put it simply Garen is supposed to be rather underwhelming yet always reliable, where as Darius is supposed to be the other way around. I think they haven't quite hit the mark on either account, but that's my take on it as a Garen main.

SquashCannon1 votes

{quoted}

The one good thing about Garen is that he has fewer bad matchups. He can survive against ranged opponents far better than Darius can and has far more tools for playing passively than Darius.

That's not to say Garen couldn't use some quality of life changes, or even a small buff, but he is supposed to be the reliable one of the pair.

Darius, on the other hand, can do far less than Garen when behind. His only defensive skill is his Q, and that doesn't do a whole lot when you're forced to play defensively. Darius can quickly reach the point where he can 2v1 when ahead, but if he has to rely on his opponents getting close to him there's not a whole lot he can do. At least Garen has some speed on his side for moving around the map, rather than just relying on pure killing power to keep him both safe and useful.

As a Juggernaut Darius will still come back mid/late game to some extend regardless of how shut down he was, but Garen has a clear advantage when it comes to safety and surviving bad matchups.

To put it simply Garen is supposed to be rather underwhelming yet always reliable, where as Darius is supposed to be the other way around. I think they haven't quite hit the mark on either account, but that's my take on it as a Garen main.

Wrong.

Darius can actually kill ranged opponents with apprehend and decimate, both of which are ranged abilities. Garen just gets bullied to death.

With the possible exception of renekton, all of Darius's bad matchups are passed onto Garen and amplified.

One thing you did note was that Garen is almost always a reliable damage sponge.

But that's being a tank. Garen should have reliable damage AND tank. that's the whole purpose of juggernaut. As it is, Garen's damage is so laughable.

redniwediS1 votes

Apprehend requires your opponent to either misplay or not fully understand the actual area of risk around Darius. Neither are situations that should be used when talking about balance. Against a good opponent, particularly a ranged opponent, Darius should never be allowed to get that close.

Now if you're comparing the two I'll agree, Garen's damage is very laughable. Outside of this comparison, however, Garen does have respectable damage. If you actually think he doesn't then you're playing him wrong.

Matchup wise I couldn't disagree more. Darius's bad matchups are hardly amplified toward Garen. They are not the same champions, and as such have different strengths and weaknesses. They share some, but not enough to mirror their matchups.

All I can say is you seem to think Garen is all but useless, when in reality he's only slightly weak. Only one of us is wrong here, and it's not me.

SquashCannon1 votes

{quoted}

Apprehend requires your opponent to either misplay or not fully understand the actual area of risk around Darius. Neither are situations that should be used when talking about balance. Against a good opponent, particularly a ranged opponent, Darius should never be allowed to get that close.

Now if you're comparing the two I'll agree, Garen's damage is very laughable. Outside of this comparison, however, Garen does have respectable damage. If you actually think he doesn't then you're playing him wrong.

Matchup wise I couldn't disagree more. Darius's bad matchups are hardly amplified toward Garen. They are not the same champions, and as such have different strengths and weaknesses. They share some, but not enough to mirror their matchups.

All I can say is you seem to think Garen is all but useless, when in reality he's only slightly weak. Only one of us is wrong here, and it's not me.

"Darius should never be allowed to get that close"

Mix in phage and it can happen. Apprehend must be taken into account with balancing, even if it is apparently only a punishing tool.

Name one matchup that Darius has bad for him that is good for Garen. Perhaps with the exception of renekton.

redniwediS1 votes

Yeah... I looked it up and I'm not going to post anything here. The numbers don't lie and champion.gg is a pretty well known website.

I can't tell if you're legitimately looking for a matchup example or not, but just in case you're not I'm not going to waste my time.

SquashCannon1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah... I looked it up and I'm not going to post anything here. The numbers don't lie and champion.gg is a pretty well known website.

I can't tell if you're legitimately looking for a matchup example or not, but just in case you're not I'm not going to waste my time.

concession accepted, now screw off if you have nothing to add.

redniwediS1 votes

You might want to read my post again, because nowhere in it is a concession. If you actually think I conceded anything then you've only validated my opinion that you're not worth my time.

Go luck up the numbers. We can talk again once you're not being lazy.

Reikken1 votes

Garen is much better at getting in and getting his damage off. Once he's on you, you're taking his damage whether you like it or not. Darius is easier to kite but does more damage if you fail to kite him.

SquashCannon1 votes

{quoted}

Garen is much better at getting in and getting his damage off. Once he's on you, you're taking his damage whether you like it or not. Darius is easier to kite but does more damage if you fail to kite him.

A slow cleanse and mediocre speed up VS a medium range uninterruptible pull.

Reikken1 votes

Indeed. The speed boost covers about as much ground as the pull, even if they're actively running away, without even including the slow cleanse. It also has a much shorter cooldown. It also can be half successful if you don't quite make it, you can still be in range to do damage with the spin. Whereas Darius has no half success case. If he barely misses the pull, that's it. He's got nothing.

SquashCannon1 votes

{quoted}

Indeed. The speed boost covers about as much ground as the pull, even if they're actively running away, without even including the slow cleanse. It also has a much shorter cooldown. It also can be half successful if you don't quite make it, you can still be in range to do damage with the spin. Whereas Darius has no half success case. If he barely misses the pull, that's it. He's got nothing.

And if even the smallest bit off cc is applied to garen after his Q then Garen has nothing.

Decimate still has decent range. It's radius covers over 100 more units than judgement.

The CD portion of apprehend really only matters early game. full rank apprehend adds only 4 seconds of cd compared to decisive strike (not to mention the fact that it is hilariously more useful).

Meanwhile, Garen fails to be viable anywhere over plat and even his win rate among some of the lower elos has dropped in the recent patches. The guy sucks ass.

420 grams1 votes

Garen works better as a tank because of his w, and does more burst than Darius. Honestly I get how kit wise they're similar, but play wise they're pretty different. Ones not better than the other, they're just different.

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