I have a real problem with idea that tanks building full tank items can not only take the most damage in a game, but also do the most in a game often by 20 or 30k over the next highest on their team.
Should that even be possible?
Maybe we should make tanks tankier and nerf their damage. I would like to see more defined classes and roles. Too much shit is just blurred together now.
TheHappyReaperz4 votesWhat Tank did that? How useless was their ADC?
DonnieDarkin2 votesMundo. Their ADC had 2nd most kills which was twice what ours had.
TheHappyReaperz11 votesMundo isn't a tank.
DonnieDarkin2 votesI dont give a fuck what Riot calls him. He scales off of building HP. He builds full tank items. Hes a tank.
Ralanr6 votesGood luck having him lock down an ulting Yi. Cause tanks are much better at that than Mundo will ever be.
He's more of a damage threat than a CC threat. So he's a juggernaut.
DonnieDarkin3 votesReally? Cause I see him as damage sponge. Sounds pretty tanky to me.
Ralanr5 votesIf the only requirement to be a tank was being a damage sponge, then tanks wouldn't even be a class man.
DonnieDarkin3 votesYeah, no one is tank anymore. You can't ever call anyone a tank without getting a rebuttal. There is a reason nerds are picked on in real life, and this is it.
Ralanr3 votes
is a tank
is a tank
is a tank
If you want to talk extremes sure, but you're wrong.
MysterQ2 votesI agree with Donnie much more than you. Utility is not required to meet the definition of a tank imo. That Mundo wasn't building as a Juggernaut even if one of his goals was damage.
Ralanr3 votesI'll have to disagree.
See Mundo functions off of high health builds because he heals more from it and helps him stay alive to do more damage.
If Azir got a passive that gave him AP for health, would he be a tank? No because his kit is built to function like a poke mage (or whatever Azir is supposed to be).
Mundo's kit is only for himself. It only functions to keep him in the fight for as long as possible, retreat, heal up, and fight some more at full health. Outside of that, he doesn't provide much of anything to his team.
Utility is what divides tanks from juggernauts. If you didn't need more than a bunch of health to be a tank, then tanks wouldn't be distinct enough to have their own class.
MysterQ2 votesVlad does exactly that, gets AP for health. But you are right he is not a tank because his goal in most games isn't to soak up damage.
Maybe the definition of tank in LoL is more refined. But the general term of tank is someone who absorbs the most damage. And I am not arguing that utility adds a lot to a role that generally does not do much damage outside of Sunfire and base. But if Mundo has the most armor, MR, and health on that team and is acting in the front then he was the tank.
Ralanr2 votesI'm just arguing who is and who is not a tank in league. What you call someone in game I don't care about. But if you're going to complain about a champion, you need to understand how league defines them and that your perceptions may be incorrect.
TheHappyReaperz5 votesHe has no hard CC, his kit is designed to run people down, and he does more damage than a Tank. He's not a Tank, he's a Juggernaut.
DonnieDarkin3 votesWhenever, he is the champion that the team definitely should NOT focus in a team fight, he is the acting tank of that team.
LongHair Fox2 votesTanks by the traditional term is not useable in pvp games since all they had to do was, as their name suggest: tank damage. In pvp people just ignore them if they do nothing else so they compensate by doing one of two things: have utility and become what riot calls a wardens or vanguards or they have damage and become juggernauts. Juggernauts are meant force opponents to damage them because of their damage threats but balance that out by being easy to kite and peel. Also not that it is damage over the entire game and in lane mundo will trade a lot if he is against a tank so a lot of his damage probably comes from hitting another tank that shields or sustains it.
Also hate to be the bearer of bad news but if mundo is out damaging everyone then you are likely not playing at an elo where people play the game properly enough that peeling is a thing, thus making juggernauts very good.
Ralanr6 votesSoooooo many things....
Mundo isn't a tank, he's a juggernaut. He's suppose to hurt a lot.
On the topic of tanks doing a lot of damage in the charts, it's because they actually do not do that much generally.
This can be a typical fight with a tank. He hits his target, keeps hitting but doesn't kill them, the target retreats and heals up. Comes back, fight keeps going. The amount of damage done becomes actually higher than it would have been if the tank just killed that person before they backed.
Not to mention all the AoE tanks (and Mundo) have in teamfights, allowing their damage to add up a lot from different targets. Instead of dealing 35 damage to 1 target, he's dealing 35 damage to 5 targets, constantly. So it looks like he's actually dealing more damage at the end than he should.
Mundo being high on the damage charts probably means he was in a lot of teamfights.
DonnieDarkin4 votesI don't give a fuck what Riot calls him, he scales off of building HP, and builds all tank items. Hes a fucking tank. Swear to God its like no champion is ever considered a tank now. Go to the store and click tank, you will see 19 champions, and nearly all of them can be argued that they arent REALLY a tank. They are a bruiser, a juggernaut ,etc. Fuck that noise. When someone says, hey we need tank jungler, and you pick Voli bear, everyone is like okay cool. But you would be like....well guys, hes actually a figher. To that I say, stfu. No offense.
He also had the most kills, if that clarifies. So it wasn't just your example which I understand.
Ralanr6 votesI don't really give a fuck about what you call him in game. I'm not going to go into detail on who is a tank and what isn't in champion select (odds are I'm already playing a tank anyway). We just have more time to actually discuss that, and I'l tell you Mundo isn't a tank even if all he's building is HP. He's shit for Peel, can't engage more than a regular champion, and is incredibly selfish with his kit (not to mention the lack of hard CC).
If he had the most kills, why the hell is it surprising that he did the most damage then?
DonnieDarkin2 votesShit for peel? The dude has a FOUR second cool down on a cleaver that slows for 40% for 2 seconds. And no one just builds HP, there is armor and magic resist with his items. So, tank.
Ralanr3 votesA slow. A slow is rather poor for peeling (especially with all those dashes out there) and it mainly benefits him to act as a pseudo gapcloser.
Good peel would be something like a stun or a knock back, but even that alone doesn't make someone a tank. Nor does building defensive items, or else Riot would call 
a tank because their introductory program keeps telling new players to build 
on her.
DonnieDarkin3 votesOR how about something like if you ignore him and he stays on you as you try to get a carry, you are taking sunfire damage and his W damage every second getting drained of health.
The idea that a tank needs hard CC is just an arbitrary definition. In fact if we go a step further, in real life combat, no only are actual tanks highly mobile compared to other vehicles and soldiers, they also do way more damage than most ground based units and can take the most damage. So the concept of tank being a slow damage sponge with hard CC is just invention to begin with
Ralanr4 votesOR how about something like if you ignore him and he stays on you as you try to get a carry, you are taking sunfire damage and his W damage every second getting drained of health.
The idea that a tank needs hard CC is just an arbitrary definition. In fact if we go a step further, in real life combat, no only are actual tanks highly mobile compared to other vehicles and soldiers, they also do way more damage than most ground based units and can take the most damage. So the concept of tank being a slow damage sponge with hard CC is just invention to begin with
Ok, let's cut out real world comparisons right now because they don't really work well in league.
And to argue for your first point, that is a threat of a damage threat. Something that juggernauts provide. You're afraid of Mundo hurting you as he stays on you, that's basically his main job. Survive and hurt people. Tanks are more about controlling the fight against the enemy team with hard CC. Locking down primary targets or even whole teams.
Mundo doesn't do that.
If you want a list of tanks, I'll gladly give it to you.
(Was reclassified as one) 
There are some oddities, namely 
and 
. Riot classifies Nunu as a Warden, but he lacks hard CC in his kit. They may add that in the future. Singed is also listed under unique playstyle.
DonnieDarkin2 votesSo basically you are saying no matter how hard it is to kill a champion, no matter how much damage he can soak up, unless he has hard CC in his kit hes not a tank.
What a stupid distinction. The word tank is probably wrong to begin with.
Ralanr3 votesThe term holds over from long ago when all it really meant was a beefy guy to keep focus.
It isn't so simple in league.
DonnieDarkin2 votesIn that case, I am correct in ignoring Riots arbitrary definitions of classes. When someoen says we need a tanky top and I go Mundo, no one blinks. Because he is tanky. That is he has the qualities of tank. Anything past that is just made up classifications that do...what for the game exactly? You can call shit what you want all I see when I play league is TANK, FIGHTER, MAGE, SUPPORT and ASSASSIN. Those are the only classes I see and I don't try to classify deeper than that. Whats the point?
Ralanr2 votesYou don't need to classify deeper than that (though if I'm on a team with you and you lock in Mundo top when we have no CC and are all squishy, I'm dodging) in game. But if you're going to complain about the mechanics and balance of the game, it's expected that you try to have a better understanding of how the game is designed and how your perceptions may not fit with that design.
And people aren't going to normally complain about Mundo not being a tank in game because most people don't seem to actually care about the definitions of a tank. Riot is not amongst those people, hence the subclasses and the subclass updates.
LongHair Fox3 votesWe use riot's definitions because it makes the language we use to describe problems clearer. All people here are doing is trying to help you argue better and make it clearer what you want. Look at the downvotes this has gotten already, if you had put juggernaut in the title then I doubt you would have gotten even half of those downvotes. Can we argue that juggernauts deal too much damage? maybe, but write that up in another thread and people might start taking you seriously instead of explaining terminology.
MrHaZeYo5 votesI've had this conversation so many times.
Mundo isn't a Tank (Vanguard or Warden) Mundo is a Juggernaut (Fighter) meaning he is a Moderate Damage Threat while being able to soak up damage.
Juggernauts build tank to survive long enough to put their kits to use, but are also very "Me" centric champions (As their kits help only them in fights opposed to how tanks have CC to engage or peel to help the team) Mundo builds HP/tanky to be able to survive long enough to put out a shit ton of damage. Mao Kai builds tank in order to survive to peel or engage for his team.
On topic a bit more though, Tanks need to do damage or you'd walk right past them and they'd be somewhat useless.
Big Lincoln2 votesyou lost to a shit champion, that's your fault
FooDang2 votesTop lane gets boring real quick so top laners like to trade often. If they are tanky they also like to fight often with the enemy and do damage in long extended fights. Thats why Top laners might usually do the most damage in game. They dont do burst damage, they do tickle damage constantly throughout the game.
MysterQ1 votesI am sure the player base enjoys never being able to kill anyone. That is why everyone fights to fill in support roles like Janna.
You would need to give consistent examples. Is this just a superfed tank, a bruiser, did everyone else play poor.
DonnieDarkin1 votesTeam didnt group all that well it was just Mundo with 
It just bothers me. Its like having a fighter be able to build all damage and somehow end up taking the most damage as well as dealing the most. It just doesn't make any sense.
MysterQ1 votesOh yea, I don't know how to respond. And my opinions are from a bronze perspective.
Many champions just seem overloaded. Mundo's healing capabilities are insane. I can see why he would be a problem. But at the same time DrainTanks with a Bloodthirster who go from 10% to 50% in 2 seconds are just as ridiculous and problematic.
I can't say what the problem is. But when someone gets fed they always seem way more broken. Teams need to learn to give up fighting and just creepfarm until 6 items and level 18, but that is hard to do. Especially if the fed on plays well.
PhDs Nuts1 voteslol @ Gragas and Malphite not being damage threats.
Ralanr1 votesMalphite is honestly really dumb. And in terms of damage threats, I'm scared of someone like Darius more than Gragas.
That doesn't mean I'm not scared of that fat bastard.
Nik Nikerson1 votesTank is a general term that is divided up between Vangaurds, Wardens, and Juggernauts.
Vangaurds are offensive tanks that are meant to engage on the enemy team. Warderns are defensive tanks meant to peel and protect their team. Juggernauts are offensive tanks meant to deal damage. They have high base damage so they can build tanky and still fulfill their role as a damage dealer.
Mundo is a Juggernaut. He's designed to deal damage and provide a threat that is difficult to deal with. So yeah, that's not so much of a problem. You would have a valid complaint if a Warden like Braum were dealing the most damage on a team, but Mundo is literally just doing what he's supposed to do. If you made Mundo tankier and nerfed his damage, he would be an absolutely pointless champion (along with all the other juggernauts) because he would do similar damage to a Vangaurd or Warden, but would lack the tools to engage or peel. Without any of those things, you could just ignore Mundo through most of a fight, meaning he wouldn't be tanking anything. There would be literally NO reason to play him.
MysterQ1 votesBut we need to agree that he IS a tank. Regardless of further classification he is a tank.
LongHair Fox5 votesNo, juggernauts are not a subclass of tanks. Riot describes each class here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses
It is a quick read and almost necessary to discuss any kind of class. Going by original rpg PvE definitions it would be unfair for tanks to have cc or damage since all they should is being tanky, maybe using som aggro increasing effects. In PvP it does not work like that so there is a need for more classes. Since there is no generally agreed upon classification for different tanks, riot made their own, and since this is a forum made by riot we use their classes.
MysterQ1 votesProbably helpful.
DonnieDarkin1 votesOkay so what about when full tank build Malphite does the most damage. I have seen that many times.
FireDrizzle1 votesHecarim has more burst, 2 hard cc's, 9000 movespeed and a gapcloser that can't be interrupted, but you want to complain about one of the weakest champs in the game?
Basically every champ similar to Mundo is better.
DonnieDarkin1 votesHecarim doesnt have insane healing