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Caitlyn DPS Math (Tragic)

SteelMankind··1 votes·1,105 views

So Caitlyn has one of the lowest base attack speeds in the game (0.568). Ever since her rework, I've been saying how poorly she scales with attack speed because her base is so low, and taking AD marks & qunits and building ER 3rd instead of RFC.

Turns out that even on Caitlyn, attack speed runes and RFC 3rd is higher DPS than the flat AD setups and builds I was running. It''s not that much higher until you get to 3 items, but even so, it's just so... disappointing. This entire time, I thought I had an advantage over other ADC players because I, with my mathematical intuition, had believed that the choices every Caitlyn player makes (AS quints and a 2nd zeal item) were inferior to my own (AD quints and ER instead of RFC). I figured Riot intentionally gave Caitlyn a low base attack speed to facilitate higher burst with a single auto attack builds which is consistent with Caitlyn being a sniper, but I was wrong.

Done in practice tool with practice dummies. In each case I let Caitlyn autoattack the dummy for a long time to normalize DPS.

Build with AD page: IE->Runaan's->ER DPS with the AD page: Lvl 1: 30 Lvl 9, 3600g: 110 Lvl 14, 6200g: 200 group/180 single target Lvl 18, 9800g: 340 group/320 single target

Build with standard AS page: components of IE/Runaans->IE+Runaan's->RFC+Vamp scepter DPS with AS page: Lvl 1: 30 Lvl 9, 3600g: 111 Lvl 14, 6200g: 212 group/194 single target Lvl 18, 9800g: 440 group/400 single target

13 Comments

Maximum Morde1 votes

However, long term DPS isn't that important if your burst kills them outright.

SteelMankind1 votes

That's true. The numbers you see above are from the total damage dealt by autoattacks over a long period of time, and the difference between the two builds would be much larger for most (every?) other ADC. The fact that the difference is so small in early levels means that you might want to just take AD quints for better auto pokes, but still build into AS items.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

her advantage is that she outranges every champion in the game as far as basic attacks go (except jinx using her rockets at max level and tristana at level 18)

you have to attack from inside of a bush while using items like runaans.

Hethalean1 votes

KogMaw as well with his W on I believe.

BLACK REALM GOD1 votes

i cant remember what kogmaws w is. if it's a basic attack enhancement then maybe.

edit

but anyway attack speed is the way to go on caitlyn when building her for early game. specifically rushing runaans. you just need enough damage to scare you opponent into retreating instead of rushing you down with their abilities.

i played against a miss fortune and a jayce earlier. it was a steamroller fest.

Sasogwa1 votes

AS quints are busted af to be honest, it's no wonder.

Salron1 votes

Her only damage steroid(her passive) needs attack speed to function well Why do you think people go double zeal item after ie

SteelMankind1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7dZw3wwA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-03-27T13:36:20.825+0000)

Her only damage steroid(her passive) needs attack speed to function well

It's not that simple. The damage of the passive scales off of AD, crit chance, crit damage, and armor pen - the frequency of it that scales with AS. A hypothetical base attack speed of 0.1 would absolutely mean that it would be better to avoid building AS, so the question becomes, "is Caitlyn's base attack speed of 0.568 low enough that it's better to improve the damage of every headshot than the frequency of them?" and the answer is apparently no.

Why do you think people go double zeal item after ie

Confirmation bias. Turns out they were right the whole time feelsbadman

Ravenhale1 votes

Has anyone checked if Lethality is worthwhile on Caitlyn? With her being so single target, burst oriented, I was curious if it was worth building a couple Lethality items to boost the Movespeed of this ridiculously slow marksmen.

Mysticman891 votes

I don't consider cait to be burst oriented, at least as shes traditionally played/built.

I've heard of people going lethality and doing some rediculous ults/trap headshots, but her q is easy to dodge, her ult isn't up that much, and people can avoid traps, so lethality is somewhat lacking for her most of the time.

SteelMankind1 votes

It's lower autoattack DPS for sure. You will do more damage with Q's, bonus damage from traps, and ults, though. Probably not worth since other ADCs are more reliable with a caster playstyle.

Mysticman891 votes

Yeah theres situational benefits to raw AD (or lethality) over AS, but AS is certainly better DPS. That said, in short trades you may only get one shot off anyway, and people may find csing easier with more AD compared to AS.

For the most part, people have really dug down with spreadsheets and mathematically shown that X runes are objectively the best for dps, Y build order is the best possible DPS/gold at a given point in the game (dear adcs, get a zeal item before you finish your IE), and Z masteries are the way to go.

Pro players often are using those builds (which they may or may not have mathematically verified themselves, or it may have been trial and error, or maybe coaches/analysts told them, whichever), and then the masses see the pros using builds so they copy them, and then almost everyone ends up using those optimised builds, despite the majority not having ever done the math directly. It's part of why people tend to get very uncomfortable when people deviate from the 'norm', since even without doing the math for every individual champs normal build theres a pretty good chance that the 'normal' build is optimal and the build being 'tested' doesn't need to be, as it long since has and been shown to be inferior.

KoggyStyle1 votes

starting to find as easier for last hitting, ill get more over time even if i mess up my last hits sometimes.

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