1 More minor buff for Sion

Spoofghoul··25 votes·1,610 views

While the recent Sion buffs have been much appreciated and a step in the right direction. Making him more rewarding for playing him properly by being able to get more hp for good cs numbers or landing full charged ultimate's, i kind of miss one more thing

This is one thing which has always bugged when playing Sion And i have been maining him ever since his rework, so it's been a while now

His Q dealing reduced damage vs minions & monsters

It's 33.4% lower vs monsters And 67% lower vs minions

I can understand the need for this in the early game, one shotting minion waves and monster camps by maxing Q first would not be really fun to play against.

So i am not asking for the reduced damage to be removed entirely

What i am asking for is for it to go away at later stages of the game

This can be done by decreasing this per level and make it go away gradually, for example roughly 2/4 % more damage per level

Or Have this effect diminshed per ult rank/max level

Which could be something like 40% at 6 60% at 11 80% at 16 100% at 18

Also a bit gradual but more in spikes with full damage at max level unlocked

It's should not be tied to the Q ability's rank because that would cause issues when you rank it up first

The benefits to doing this are simple

Sion can actually farm later in the game without spending half his mana to charge up 10 Q's to kill a caster minion Or being forced to build sunfire cape or be stuck tickling minions and monsters for an eternity

This would be such a massive convenience buff, i wouldn't have to build full damage or be forced to build tank waveclear items in order to farm properly once the game goes longer then 20 minutes

Other tanks don't have to do this either their abilties function properly vs minions so they can actually opt into building other tank items that are not sunfire cape Personally i just stick with Cinderhulk, or i build damage items and just auto attack the minions instead

I can guarantee you that this is one of the main reason why Sion has been struggling so much since Sunfire had been nerfed. Sunfire got worse at everything it did, it even got worse for waveclear with the range reduction because you can no longer use it on the whole minion wave effectively.

With a kit that screams go farm a ton of minions & monsters (and champions ofc) Being handicapped in doing so just seems wrong

It also makes it all too easy to just shut him down, Not being able to farm properly late game or having to opt into sub optimal items to be able to sort of band aid this sucks.

If you shut him down early, you essentially take away his health pool because all he has left is the mid game to farm, and you are ahead by them three times over because he can't really scale off of his shitty base stats nor does he have the farm(hp) to do so safely nor the items. And he can't really catch up by farming later as it would take ages to do so since his damage vs minions is handicapped.

I don't care about the handicap vs minions in the early game, that is only balanced, what i ask for is to have it gradually go away towards the late game in a balanced way.

It would open up item slots to build other tank items earlier in the game if you do not necessarily want to have strong pushing power earlier. And leaves you with the possibility of not relying on the wave clear items later in the game to farm either so you can get a different item if you want too. It also leaves a comeback option if you get behind early by allowing you to farm in a more reasonable time frame late into the game so it will be up to your opponents to take advantage while they are ahead. Delaying you rather then simply stopping you then and there.

21 Comments

King of Demons7 votes

He doesn't really need that. His fully charged Q is enough to kill casters already or at least get them very low so an E or W finishes the rest of the wave. It's good enough and buffing it would probably make his laning oppressive. There's a reason the damage is reduced after all.

Just look at it. It's a 200 base damage at level 1.

zepdrix5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Taku of Rivia,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7PtkE116,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-23T11:28:23.117+0000)

It's good enough and buffing it would probably make his laning oppressive.

Hmm, I have a feeling you didn't read the entire post...

King of Demons2 votes

Yes I did read it, but the point stands. Any buff makes him too strong.

Kloqdq4 votes

The post is legit talking about lower the damage cap as the game goes on into late game. It would have no effect on early game and may even be less.

SpecterVonBaren2 votes

And he's saying that's way to strong. It has that high base damage so that managing to land a fully charged Q on an enemy champion is highly rewarding. The reduced damage to minions and monsters is so he can have that without being a monster wave clearer. It doesn't matter that he wouldn't have this completely gone until late game, it would be a problem at any point in the game.

Kloqdq3 votes

But if it's managed properly via balancing, it would be a nice way to make him be able to clear a wave. It isn't even that great since you will almost never be able to get a fully charged Q unless you CC'd locked the enemy hard. 67% less is quite painful and I don't see why he can't have it get reduced to say 33.4% like monsters at level 18 where the game is so fast pace that it would just bring him in line.

Spoofghoul4 votes

pretty much this ^

Takes ages to clear a wave compared to other tanks

Often you simply cannot clear the wave or the camp because it takes too long and you have to join your team

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Taku of Rivia,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7PtkE116,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-23T13:40:22.292+0000)

Any buff makes him too strong.

Hahahahaha but you know lmfao, Zed could be a bit stronger right now lolll

Spoofghoul5 votes

180 base damage With 15 ad it be 210

At level 18 rank 5 Q it would be 550 or 580 Roughly

But reduce that by 67% and you are left with about 190 damage if you run AD runes or about 180 if you don't

Now compare that to the damage other tanks have on their abilities

Let's take Maokai for example, his Q would deal 250 damage, has similar range slightly shorter max, but also a lot shorter cooldown and doesn't require you to stand there channeling for 2 seconds either.

By the time you can use your Q just once maokai has used it twice dealing about 500 damage vs your 180 all with much more safety because he never has to channel the thing

See where this is going

And it's no different compared vs other tanks

zepdrix2 votes

I really like this idea.

Sion feels incredibly underwhelming in the late game. Anything that balances out his power would be a welcome change.

zepdrix4 votes

Heck, I would even settle for less minion damage during laning phase if we could remove the penalty later!

-75% to minions at level 1 -0% to minions at level 15

Maybe I'm just dreaming though :d

Kendrick Leemar2 votes

Some people are never fucking happy.

Play someone who never gets any positive attention and learn to be grateful for the slight glances the devs make in your direction.

ZeroAgainst1 votes

ive played yorick shaco old sion old olaf,rengar and others who never got attention so im gonna gladly to tell you no this is the only way there ever get critisim they need and not do a another old olaf which gutted him as a champ for 3 seasons and had the lowest win rate in the game to this day still.

ganggoink1 votes

Why boards upvote anything with sion and Morde?

Jerry Temporary1 votes

I love this idea. This exact problem is why I rarely take my Sion to the toplane. Also, your post is well thought out, insightful, and logical.

Good post my dude.

kasfas1 votes

I know what you mean, but at the point we stand right now I don't think sion needs any buffs. His wave clear is good as it is right now, even with this fall off because by lategame he shouldn't be clearing waves on his own anyway.

Plus, due to the massive buff to his w passive (which is basically just his passive), all he really needs to build is resistances and his passive will make up for the rest. This makes thornmail a much better purchase on sion than most, and sunfire, while by itself is a bad item, is no longer absolute ass on him.

Magical Zoe1 votes

He doesn't need another goddamn buff, he's breaking bot lane right now as it is.

http://www.op.gg/champion/sion/statistics/support

An Enemy Sutando2 votes

"Breaking" botlane when he's in less than 1% of games as support

nice meme he he x d

Dengeden1 votes

You wouldn't be saying that about an ADC with the same stats.

MooooooooreDakka2 votes

I don't think more q damage to minions would be immensely useful to sion support.

JSTIN81 votes

Ever look back at Sion pre tank "Update" and realize if he got the buffs he got he would be busted, but thanks to the Tank fuck up Update hes doing terrible? Despite 2 strings of buffs that previously would have been bonkers on him? I do, and my distaste for ADCs grows.

More from Gameplay

More by Spoofghoul