As annoying as Leona hitting like a Mack truck is.....

Eedat··130 votes·6,266 views

It's still 1000 times better than the Enchanter support meta of hiding in the back spamming 3k worth of heals and shields while point and click hard CCing anything that attempts to get to the backline.

Aggressive play-making supports like Leona, Ali, Braum, etc feel so much better to play with and against than Soraka, Lulu, Janna, etc.

So as much as we bitch about what's strong right now, thank you Riot for shifting the meta. Leona being a bit overtuned still feels 100 times better than when Janna was overtuned.

142 Comments

Kythers42 votes

enchanters are broken cause they stop baddie damage kiddos from 1v1ing the ADC

ªTeemo7 votes

{quoted}

enchanters are broken cause they stop baddie damage kiddos from 1v1ing the ADC

they stop anything from 1v1ing the adc even as an adc player i hated that shit, it made no sense

Thefrostyviking20 votes

It's not a 1v1 with a damn enchanter there x)

Chances of a Rengar killing an ashe with a alistar sitting on her are just as bad as a Rengar killing a kog with a janna.

Pretty much 0.

Salson3 votes

Until the Alistar uses Flash+W+Q on the enemy Jinx, leaving Ashe unprotected.

The catch is that the entire team can benefit from Ali's engage, instead of only Marksman benefiting from Janna's peel.

Thiadel16 votes

If you're playing Janna right, it's not just your Marksman getting peel. Hell, if you're playing any of the Enchanters right, it's NOT ONLY your Marksman getting peel. Q off one way, W the complete opposite, hit the very end of your E range to shield that Rengar, ult away the Kha'zix and heal your almost dead Rengar.

INB4 enchanters take no skill to play. No, they don't. They take skill to play WELL.

Koutetsujô2 votes

Every godamn champ needs skill to be Well played... Exept pantheon and udyr kappa

Salson2 votes

INB4 enchanters take no skill to play. No, they don't. ~~They ~~ All champs take skill to play WELL.

ftfy

It's not about the skill though, some members of the team benefit more from Enchanter Meta than others, those being primarily Marksman, and secondarily Mages. Assassins and Bruisers are hurt the most.

Add here that champs like Leona and Blic are playmakers and turn the Marksman into some sort of 'damage-support', it's easy to see why people like this meta.

Disembark2 votes

They take a lot of game understanding (at least teamfight dynamics) to play well.

I think people mistake if a champion is “hard to play” vs what a good/bad player will do with them.

Like if I’m a Plat player and fist time Janna, I’ll probably do a high Gold level Janna (even if I’m not a support main).

However if I’m doing first time lee Sin (and not a jungle main), you’re probably going to be useless.

LordGeovanni15 votes

Wow enchanters had a role in the game but got punished for it because adcs do too much damage and do it too fast. seems legit

Faceroll Tactics8 votes

Terminal diseases have a role in nature but it doesn’t mean anyone likes it or that they should be there

dunder kill6 votes

Probably because Enchanters pumped a fuck ton of damage onto them and removed the counterplay of them being super squishy. Its a pretty well known fact that the enchanter supports and their itemization were a huge factor of ADC's strength last season but hey just try to throw all of the blame onto the big meanie damage dealer.

Winterwings6 votes

Enchanters are out of meta atm, and yet somehow all of the damage dealers are actually doing EVEN MORE damage now by themselves, without having it "pumped onto them" (Especially ADC's lol)

Where is your god now?

Winterwings28 votes

...And what exactly is the point of posting this thread other than to attempt to bait angry Enchanter mains into hate-posting here to "prove your point"... ?

ªTeemo6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azure Northwing,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7EkAZtMh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-11T19:26:07.348+0000)

...And what exactly is the point of posting this thread other than to attempt to bait angry Enchanter mains into hate-posting here to "prove your point"... ?

Here's the first angry enchanter ( more like i spam e/w and r champion ) main

Winterwings10 votes

OOOH, yeah... totally angry... you can really see me flippin tables and stuff over some random's bait-thread... Get real...

Too bad you don't have the same amount of guts to post from your main account...

ªTeemo6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azure Northwing,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7EkAZtMh,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-11T20:19:02.620+0000)

OOOH, yeah... totally angry... you can really see me flippin tables and stuff over some random's bait-thread... Get real...

Too bad you don't have the same amount of guts to post from your main account...

Yeah not angry at all : ^) Main account is banned on boards btw Edit: Oh shit I just realized that you play sona soraka and janna BEGONE THOT Not even trying to talk to you anymore

Succubús GF8 votes

I wonder why [sg-miss-fortune]

Main account is banned on boards btw

Eedat13 votes

To express my opinion that this support meta is much more enjoyable than the last one. I thought that was pretty obvious.

ShaolinToilet23 votes

I'd rather have enchanters op than leona

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

I dunno, I love it when Leona is meta because then I just pick Alistar and laugh at her every time she tries to engage.

THE RlVER KlNG20 votes

it really isn't

getting permastunned in melee range by a leo while vayne kills you in 3 autos and you're never allowed to touch her is just as frustrating and unfair as raka or janna keeping the latter safe from dives

it makes games snowball way faster anyway because lane is decided by who picks a strong aftershock abuser / press the attack abuser

fucking sick of vayne / xayah / trist in every game just blowing everyone up with three autos and even more cc than before, you'd think the bruiser circlejerk wouldn't like league of leona/ali/blitz either

leo is still overtuned and needs more nerfs. i don't like playing against her anymore than i like playing against lulu nowadays

Disembark4 votes

What I hate about Leona is that if you're an immobile squishy - you're fucked. If you don't have flash you have no choice but to just sit super far back. She is just so god damn tanky so towers don't effect her.

If she snowballs you just feel so helpless - cause at least before she might've "not had the damage" but in this high damage meta her CC is more than enough time for you to get blown up.

PhearBunny14 votes

The funny thing is, Leona is substantially weaker than she was pre-runes reforged.

I mean shes tankier and is a better diver now, but pre-runes reforged you could go 15AD or 9AD+attackspeed with either Thunderlords or Fervor and just solo delete any ADC for all of early game.

Unless there was a Morgana or Thresh around ofc.

Zero Skill Tank2 votes

Nah. MR being lower all around made her much better.

PhearBunny4 votes

Not true. Pre-RunesReforged all her damage came from runes, now youd have to walk into lane with a Long sword just to activate your adaptive AD. And by doing so, youd be taking runes that don't really work as well as Aftershock does anyways, so theres no point.

Shes better at her role now, but her damage is waaaay lower. The MR is irrelevant, her damage doesn't come from AP(some of it does). The majority of her damage comes from her Q being a short CD AA reset. so she essentially has capped out attack speed. AA>Q>AA is a instant 3 autoattacks, which benefitted hugely from things like 15AD runepage, Thunderlords, and Fervor.

Clementine11 votes

"Aggressive play-making supports like Leona, Ali, Braum"

Braum

What elo are we win that we like playing against Braum

Eedat10 votes

You could have just said "I dont like playing against Braum" instead of going full douche ELO snob. I wasn't aware that you speak on behalf of every D5 players' opinion on Braum either.

Abibyama8 votes

At least when we don’t have Twitch, Tristana and Kog killing people in 3 AA

Instead we have MF, Jhin and Varus half healthing squishes in 1 ability and doing 1/4 of a tank’s health with 1 ability

Athenes Lulu8 votes

At least we let you guys do anything in lane, though the end result may not be what you guys wanted.

By the time Leona hits level 2 say goodbye to doing anything in lane that isn't inting.

SSShutTheDuckUp2 votes

Well, not much to do versus a well played enchanter either. They can nullify whatever harass I throw at their ADC, so I end up just looking good in the lane. At least Leona does not cover her ADC mistakes this effectively

Athenes Lulu5 votes

You can still farm and even try to poke. The poke does get nullified (and as someone who loves poking I find that bullshit), but you get to keep the farm.

Leona doesn't even let you do that and you just straight up die if you get into her range.

PePsiLemoNN7 votes

''I miss the good old Janna/Lulu days'' threads inc lmao.

FourVsFive7 votes

Reason why you will never see Soraka much in competitive league is that 1 item pretty much counters her whole kit, and she has no real good CC that can stop adc from attacking either. Soraka still needs some love.

Eedat3 votes

Reason why you will never see Soraka much in competitive league

What are you talking about? Soraka was played at Worlds quite a few times. Or does the biggest LoL tournament of the year not count as competitive league for some reason?

As far as the rest of us go, Soraka still has a 51% WR with an 8% play rate. So she's played quite a bit and still has a fine winrate.

She is in no need of buffs what-so-ever

Radiant Wukong6 votes

I agree with what you're saying... until Leona ends up being a top lane boss melee champion like Nautilus.

Reformedfindlay8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7EkAZtMh,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-12-11T19:30:35.931+0000)

I agree with what you're saying... until Leona ends up being a top lane boss melee champion like Nautilus.

She can never be that because she has no waveclear. Nautilus top worked because not only was he a god, but he can clear waves incredibly fast.

Leona when she's strong still has shit waveclear. Her ability to put pressure is incredibly limited, and if I recall, her passive is non-existent without a teammate.

PhearBunny9 votes

She was actually solid pre-runes reforged as a top laner and even a jungler.

Her only downside was her early game wave clear, which wasn't horrible, it just wasn't good.

She could duel basically everything if you ran Fervor since AA+Q+AAreset was an instant max stacks.

But those days are over, as a former off-meta Leona main, she is no longer Top/Jungle viable.

Linna Excel4 votes

item 3748 leona now has waveclear.

Linna Excel2 votes

Part of me would prefer it if Leona was reworked into a top/jungle bruiser.

Fisher No Chains6 votes

This so fucking much.

I’m an assassin/mage main and I stopped enjoying the game when Ardent was broken because it had no counterplay at all.

At least Leona puts herself in danger and 3 of her 4 spells can be dodged. Snowball or not, I love the current botlane meta because there are champions like Leona and Jhin.

Jet Sett3 votes

Enchanter supports generally lack full-on counterplay to prevent their kits from feeling bad. But of course that means when they're strong you just don't get to do anything without killing them.

Karfuss6 votes

Agreed. The support meta has, after countless seasons, returned to a balance where hyper aggressive beats sustain, sustain beats poke, poke beats hyper aggressive.

This trinity was the ethos behind the support role design as a whole. While they ALL may be over-performing, they're at least over-performing against champions they should be doing well against.

Professor Ward5 votes

ive been playing electrocute naut botlane, and i wouldnt exactly call it "better than enchanter meta", ive never had an easier, or higher, first blood potential.

TonyTonyMordecai5 votes

Lulu's polymorph is one of the few point and click hard CC ability amongst the enchanter supports, and it has a travel time and allows the enemy to still move. Unless you want to count her ult as well, and that can only be used on allies and doesn't knock up enemies unless they're in range. Her E being the shield and on-hit modifier and her ult being a sort of heal. Sona's only targeted CC is her empowered E auto, and I suppose her empowered W auto if you want to add that as well. Her ult is a skillshot. Her W is her heal and shield 2-in-1, with both values being incredibly low at rank 1 but gaining effectiveness as you level up since the cooldown goes down by a large margin. Janna has a targeted slow (which is annoying in any situation given how fast she can be), and then her Q which is a knockup gaining range and speed the longer you hold it, with the knock up duration having a max of 1.25 seconds. Her E being her shield and her ult being a heal per second with a knock-back on activation. Then Soraka has her silence, which can be categorized as a skillshot, which also has a delayed root if you stay in the circle. Obviously her heals being W and R, with her W costing her own health. Bard has a stun only if he hits two enemies or an enemy and a wall, and then his ult. His heal gains more effectiveness if it charges for the full 10 seconds. Karma has a delayed root, probably the only point and click hard CC ability of the group that stops movement. It's reliability goes up when she speeds herself up and uses her empowered Q. Of course, her shield is her E which can also be empowered to shield everyone with the main target getting more shielding. Similar case with Rakan, where his W's reliability increases when used in combination with his ult. Even then, that's his combo, and he can't CC you again until his W comes off cooldown, which then depends on if the enemies don't move fast enough to get out of the circle, or they flash away. His E is a short dash and his Q heal depends on you hitting a champion or epic monster. I suppose you can also throw Zilean in here, and since his targeted slow at max rank is 99% for 2.5 seconds, which can also be refreshed with his W, and then giving him easy access to land his bomb stun for 1.5 seconds. His only heal is his ult, and that's situational where his targeted ally needs to fall in combat.

So for the future, don't go around complaining about enchanter supports having point and click hard CC with shields/heals, because that's not true.

Attticus Finch5 votes

"This enchanter support has a point and click CC ability BUT it doesn't count because..."

"This enchanter support has a point and click CC ability BUT it doesn't count because..."

"This enchanter support has a point and click CC ability BUT it doesn't count because..."

"This enchanter support has a point and click CC ability BUT it doesn't count because..."

The amount of desperate apologist nonsense in your post is hilarious.

TonyTonyMordecai3 votes

Where was I desperate or apologist? I never discounted any of their point and click cc, I just listed the healing/shielding abilities alongside their abilities that counted as CC, saying that a lot of them were skillshots when they had hard cc and the point and click were more of the soft cc (slows and whatnot). However, I'm glad you find humor in this. I certainly wasn't trying to cause conflict or anything, all for the purpose of discussion.

PaladinNO4 votes

Meh, I still ain't swapping my Lulu and Nami anytime soon...

Ahri Baka4 votes

Not really , having a support such as leona to 1 vs 1 any adc or mage is unlikable tbh

Funkin Dunkin3 votes

I agree. And the difference on top is Leona leaves her self wide open to a untimely counter attack if the dive goes awry.

ChuShoe2 votes

at least you can just ban leona and be done with it, remember when you had to ban: Lulu Janna Karma Sona Taric Soraka AND anyone who pretty much had any type of sustainability.

Then, if you banned all those, you'd have to make sure to ban Kalista Kog'maw Twitch Vayne (but at least she didn't have the range advantage)

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