@Riot - You know the reason why you have no idea how to change Sona to be a better feeling champ?

RedCyclone·Nov 10, 2015·29 votes·2,117 views

I'll say it SHE HAS WAY TOO MUCH IN HER KIT

way too much little shit, so using it all feels like you do nothing

okay, we got Q active damage Q on hit damage + Allies Q passive damage W self heal W allied heal W shield + Allies W passive damage reduction E speedup + Allies E passive slow R aoe stun R giving her skills more potency when ranked up

She just has too much shit in her kit to work with, really baffles me as to why this mechanically retarded champion has so much little shit to keep track of that paying attention to it is pointless Hike her skill ceiling up to the fucking sky, give her a reason to be played outside of getting to level 30 or playing while drunk, so many reworks fly by giving so much more depth to champions, yet with Sona you made her feel even worse to play and didn't touch a thing about her feeling crappy to play

You want to do away with auras altogether? okay, I am literally OKAY with that, Sona is a MUSIC champion, many other themes can easily be explored to give her a real support kit, and not one where half of her power budget has to be spent on power not in your hands because you could potentially tag 4 other people with it Autotarget? oppressive, okay, it deals like no damage anymore but if it's a problem, get rid of it, there is easily other options for supports to be able to harass over minions

At this point Sona could be reworked from the ground up, I feel that is probably the best option, as long as she has a music theme and is a support, unless I am completely wrong about other Sona players, I would not care if you re-rolled her entire kit for something waaaaaaaay more satisfying

40 Comments

qetzelNov 10, 20157 votes

In a way you are right - that is quite a lot in your list, but you could rewrite it in a different way. Sona has one spell for damage, one for a heal/team shield, one for team movement speed, an occasional added effect on her auto attacks and an AOE stun on her ultimate.

Said like that, it isn't a lot.

You touched on the more obvious point. Excluding the level one, at which a good Sona who was not counter-picked can win the lane, Sona is team reliant. With her team she is good, without it she is practically useless. While her theme is music champion, her gameplay theme is supporting the team with latent effects similar to the last ability she cast. You can't remove that in a rework.

An (at this stage) less important issue with Sona is that because she has always healed, people associate her with healing. Riot does not like lots of healing (see Soraka), so even if there were no latent effects, part of her kit will feel bad. One low impact skill can make a champion feel bad to play.

So what can Riot do? They can't revert her. They reworked her for a reason, to remove power that Sona's enemies and allies could not see. This was a good intention, and I believe that changes in this vein should be kept.

What they will need to do is another rework. They will need to find out why people play or played Sona and try to keep as much of that as possible. However, this is a two way street. The few rude vocal Sona mains will have to calm down if they want a meaningful discussion with a Rioter. Nobody will want to jump into those threads until they are more... reasonable. Sona players will also have to accept what Riot perceives as issues and, for want of a better word, red lines. They can't just ignore what they are told. Discussion needs both sides to be open to the other.

Tik115Nov 10, 20157 votes

As a person who mained Sona back in Season 3 and only ditched her after the nerfs they threw on her post-rework I think I can say a few problems with Sona (Keep in mind I'll be comparing her to traditional supports, not ones which were shoehorned into support (Sorry Karma, Zyra, Annie and Morg)

How you play Sona now doesn't match up to her stats Pre-rework Sona would switch Auras depending on the situation, she was essentially a buff bot occasionally dipping in when she has 3 stacks and poking this is why back in the day Cait/Sona was such a strong combo, Sona was about staying back giving the ADC stats while occasionally poking but still having means to escape, this was balenced out by her stats making it so if you so much as looked at her weird she would explode, The rework turned her into a mid/close range cast spammer, yet her stats didn't change, her mana costs went up and basically made her the most risky support in the game, for little reward mind you.
The other supports/new supports now do an assortment of her jobs but better

Damaging poke? Bard Braum Lulu Nami TahmKench Thresh
Heal and shield? Bard Braum (literally) Janna Lulu Nami Soraka Taric Movement speed? Bard Janna Nami Zilean Lulu Engage? Alistar Bard Blitzcrank Braum Leona Nami Taric Thresh Peel/Protecting VIPs? Alistar Bard Braum Janna Leona Lulu Nami Soraka (Don't mind me ima hang back and use ALL THE HEALS) TahmKench (Nom) Thresh Buffing allies? Lulu Nami Taric Braum

So a large amount of supports do her job but better, Hell Nami does ALL HER JOBS better, if you wanna play a champion like Sona you don't pick Sona, you pick Nami. Theres a saying "Jack of all trades and master of none" well Nami sidesteps the last half and Sona smashes right into it

she depends on items

Shut down a Bard? he still has his E and his ult, Braum? Shield? Thresh? Screw you he's Thresh, Janna? She justs shields damage dealers, Sona? Well now she'll just have her ult which given she hasn't afforded T2 boots yet and her flash is down means we won't be seeing it before we blow her up again.

Sona's base damage is low, really low, low enough that outside of the first 4 levels unless she gets some AP going she'll be dealing no damage to anyone, this again goes to point 1, she has the stats of a hang back support but was changed to an aggressive poke support without any of the stats changing where as any other support even shut down has something in their kit to ether help them hang on or just make then say "Who needs items?"

Lack of mobility

Ah Mobility creep, a problem that Riot achknowledged but refused to fix, how it shows up now Sona has 325 move speed, lowest base you can get the only other support that has that is Soraka, y'know the support who's job it is is to just hang back and heal? yeah that one, then we get to the aggresive supports like Alistar and Leona, oh hey 330 for Ali 335 for Leo, and I bet they're packing movespeed runes as well.

Again points to the whole changing her playstyle to another one without changing the stats

At the end of the day the real problem with Sona is:

Her playstyle and stats don't match She is now outshone by every support (and Nami is Sona 2.0)

no level of buffing will solve the problem with Sona, she needs one of 2 things

Revert her rework Ok lets be real here, Riot doesn't like hidden power but when they reworked Darius they kept his hidden power of his Armour pen, Zed still has his Additional AD per point via his W, Kindreds passive is essentially hidden power, Azirs W IS HIDDEN POWE- Notice summat here? Riot CLEARLY don't hate hidden power to the point where they stop giving it, Sure Sona might not of been the healthiest of supports back in S3 but we're about to hit S6, stuffs changed Sona could fit in nicly if she was Pre-rework

Unfortunatly Riot would rather panic attack and swing the buff/nerf hammer around then EVER revert anything pushed to live, it went to live so it was and always will be the right choice is Riots logic I guess

Re-Rework her I nominate CertainlyT for it, while I hate the guys champions the uniqueness and (unfortunately) Overtuned overpowered kits he gives to champions would mean Sona would (should) be able to compete with the recent supports and i some cases win (Honestly I'd love to see how he'd make Sona without every ability being an engage tool )
NERFS FOR EVERYONE No

Lets not kid ourselves here though ANY change Riot makes it's very doubtful they will care much about her identity, they haven't in the past. We'd just have to choose between keeping her incredibly weak and keep her identity or bring her back and HOPE her identity hasn't been changed too much.

qetzelNov 10, 20153 votes

Thanks for the reply. It was nice to get an insight into the mind of the Sona player. I will have to think about the points you raise, although I have immediate issue with one of them.

Take your example of Zed. When Zed jumps on you, you know you were defeated because of his auto attacks and abilities. It doesn't matter that he gets extra AD, because what you need to know is that Zed had the damage to kill you. It doesn't matter that Azir's W gives him extra attack speed. You know that what lost you the close fight was that he got an extra auto attack off. It doesn't matter that Darius has armour penetration on his E. When you are in a fight with him, you know he hurts.

Sona's power was considered invisible because the aura bonus was large enough to make a difference to a fight but not large enough that you noticed she was doing it. You knew that their ADC was dealing a lot of damage, but there was no indication that it came from the Sona hanging out 1000 range away. You saw their team moving quickly but you don't know that it is because Sona had her E on at that time. The effects were powerful, but you didn't really see much different. For the most part her teammates didn't realise that the reason they survived their last dive was the extra armour Sona was giving them.

It wasn't appreciable power.

only zhuleNov 11, 20153 votes

I think a big issue is that they tried to fix to many things at once. The general complaints about Sona before her rework were 1) She was too safe. 2) Invisible power. 3) in certain situations she did to much damage while also having good sustain. There are probably more but lets start there.

If they had addressed any one of these issues it would have been big and likely would have had effects on her as a whole. But instead they choose to try and "fix" all 3 at once. "We need the buffs to be more visable" make some part of the champion glow from each buff (like the hands/weapons do now for the damage buff). "She is too safe", so lower the range of her abilities a bit so she can't sit almost a screen away and still provide a bunch of free power. "So much damage AND sustain" either tone them both down a little or one down a bit more. Instead of just doing one of these, they decided ALL of them needed to be done at once. This provided no way to see how each would effect her, instead the combination just left her much weaker without being able to pinpoint what exactly was the thing that did her in.

Fastforward a bit and the meta game begins to shift. Utility mages stop being the go to choice for supports, new characters are introduced, with them comes a level of power creep. Tank supports are no longer just there to soak up damage, now they begin to have more and more stun/utility. As we progress we start seeing tank supports that not only can take a beating, but can also dish it out without having to build a lot of damage for it. All the while Riot still doesn't want to risk utility supports spreeding to other lanes so they do their best to keep them limited to the support role.

Tik115Nov 11, 20151 votes

The thing is to say all of those mean nothing because you know they hurt

A level 2 Zed gains an extra 4 AD JUST putting a point into his W With a Dorans, even more if you include Runes and Masteries

Level 18? going by typical Zed builds item 3153 item 3117 item 3036 (odds are they'll take this now over Mortal reminder) item 3142 item 3072 item 3026 he gains 41 bonus AD (A gold value of 1.4K) from NOTHING but putting his point in his W so he gets a free 41 damage per AA for nothing

Azir? well he can hit you twice with that attack speed buff (AS gives a gold value of 1.8K)

Darius? Theres a reason he only needs to build Cleaver and thats that, his armour pen gives him a free last wisper passive (Gold value of 860 gold)

Now lets compare what Sona gave pre-rework Her Q at rank 1 gave 140+87 gold (Both AD and AP) meaning 227 gold total Rank 1 700+435 at rank 5 = 1135 total Rank 5 Her W 120+108 (228 total) Rank 1 200+180 (380 total) Rank 5 Her E, 52 Rank 1 325 Rank 5

So in total all rank 1 she gains an invisible power gold value of 500 and all Rank 5 a gold value of 1800

So Pre-rework Sona had the hidden gold value equal to Azirs hidden power, Equal to is basically a AP hypercarry, and lets not forget while that is her TOTAL gold value she is only able to choose between the 3 Rank 5 gold values so technically at best her hidden power gold value is 1.1k, in the middle of both Zeds invisible power gold value and Darius's

Thing is as the reworked shows, she NEEDED that hidden power, they took it away and..well...look at her

Also by your logic of it not being Appreciated power, well as you say

When Zed jumps on you, you know you were defeated because of his auto attacks and abilities. It doesn't matter that he gets extra AD, because what you need to know is that Zed had the damage to kill you. It doesn't matter that Azir's W gives him extra attack speed. You know that what lost you the close fight was that he got an extra auto attack off. It doesn't matter that Darius has armour penetration on his E. When you are in a fight with him, you know he hurts.

Well if Sona is around you know she is giving champions near her a boost and you just need to pay attention to what aura it is if a champion is hurting more/slightly more tanky/slightly faster then you thought you know that if Sona was nearby she had a part in that.

Just because it isn't appreciated power doesn't make it any bad then appreciated invisible power.

The thing is as well is with her snuggle zone buffs even IF you don't see Sona you can see the buff on the carry, just like how you can see Jannas MS buff now, I'd argue Riot can revert Sonas Rework and keep those buff indicators on the other champions, that was a carry knows "Ok that champion is getting buffed by Sona"

I mean that alone would be a simple enough reason to revert Sona, keep the Aura buff indicators, revert Sona to the way she was, then she gets back in that Niche but effective spot while giving an indication to enemy teammates

ShowMeTheBootyNov 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

As a person who mained Sona back in Season 3 and only ditched her after the nerfs they threw on her post-rework I think I can say a few problems with Sona (Keep in mind I'll be comparing her to traditional supports, not ones which were shoehorned into support (Sorry Karma, Zyra, Annie and Morg)

How you play Sona now doesn't match up to her stats Pre-rework Sona would switch Auras depending on the situation, she was essentially a buff bot occasionally dipping in when she has 3 stacks and poking this is why back in the day Cait/Sona was such a strong combo, Sona was about staying back giving the ADC stats while occasionally poking but still having means to escape, this was balenced out by her stats making it so if you so much as looked at her weird she would explode, The rework turned her into a mid/close range cast spammer, yet her stats didn't change, her mana costs went up and basically made her the most risky support in the game, for little reward mind you.

The other supports/new supports now do an assortment of her jobs but better

Damaging poke?
Heal and shield? (literally) Movement speed? Engage? Peel/Protecting VIPs? (Don't mind me ima hang back and use ALL THE HEALS) (Nom) Buffing allies?

So a large amount of supports do her job but better, Hell Nami does ALL HER JOBS better, if you wanna play a champion like Sona you don't pick Sona, you pick Nami. Theres a saying "Jack of all trades and master of none" well Nami sidesteps the last half and Sona smashes right into it

she depends on items

Shut down a Bard? he still has his E and his ult, Braum? Shield? Thresh? Screw you he's Thresh, Janna? She justs shields damage dealers, Sona? Well now she'll just have her ult which given she hasn't afforded T2 boots yet and her flash is down means we won't be seeing it before we blow her up again.

Sona's base damage is low, really low, low enough that outside of the first 4 levels unless she gets some AP going she'll be dealing no damage to anyone, this again goes to point 1, she has the stats of a hang back support but was changed to an aggressive poke support without any of the stats changing where as any other support even shut down has something in their kit to ether help them hang on or just make then say "Who needs items?"

Lack of mobility

Ah Mobility creep, a problem that Riot achknowledged but refused to fix, how it shows up now Sona has 325 move speed, lowest base you can get the only other support that has that is Soraka, y'know the support who's job it is is to just hang back and heal? yeah that one, then we get to the aggresive supports like Alistar and Leona, oh hey 330 for Ali 335 for Leo, and I bet they're packing movespeed runes as well.

Again points to the whole changing her playstyle to another one without changing the stats

At the end of the day the real problem with Sona is:

Her playstyle and stats don't match She is now outshone by every support (and Nami is Sona 2.0)

no level of buffing will solve the problem with Sona, she needs one of 2 things

Revert her rework Ok lets be real here, Riot doesn't like hidden power but when they reworked Darius they kept his hidden power of his Armour pen, Zed still has his Additional AD per point via his W, Kindreds passive is essentially hidden power, Azirs W IS HIDDEN POWE- Notice summat here? Riot CLEARLY don't hate hidden power to the point where they stop giving it, Sure Sona might not of been the healthiest of supports back in S3 but we're about to hit S6, stuffs changed Sona could fit in nicly if she was Pre-rework

Unfortunatly Riot would rather panic attack and swing the buff/nerf hammer around then EVER revert anything pushed to live, it went to live so it was and always will be the right choice is Riots logic I guess

Re-Rework her I nominate CertainlyT for it, while I hate the guys champions the uniqueness and (unfortunately) Overtuned overpowered kits he gives to champions would mean Sona would (should) be able to compete with the recent supports and i some cases win (Honestly I'd love to see how he'd make Sona without every ability being an engage tool )

NERFS FOR EVERYONE No

Lets not kid ourselves here though ANY change Riot makes it's very doubtful they will care much about her identity, they haven't in the past. We'd just have to choose between keeping her incredibly weak and keep her identity or bring her back and HOPE her identity hasn't been changed too much.

Are you seriously comparing Bard to Sona? Bard's skillcap is a lot higher than Sona's, and you can't just say "Shut down a Bard? he still has his E and his ult" because you need to learn how to use it and it might even f*ck you up or your allies.

only zhuleNov 11, 20153 votes

I really don't see what people are talking about with a lack of skill floor for Sona. She's not the hardest champion to learn but most of peoples complaints are basically "i let the champion keep slapping me, why does it hurt when she slaps me in the same place for the 10th time.... IT'S NOT FAIR"

Sona's damage is a lot like an ADC's it's really high if you just let them keep hitting you with all they got over and over. But if you play smart they do very little damage and have serious risk.

only zhuleNov 11, 20153 votes

The revert idea isn't really as hard as people make it out to be. Q buff= glowing blue hands; W buff= glowing green chest. E buff= glowing purple feet. Sure there are a small small amount of champions that might have issues seeing some of these Velkoz for example. And yes there is an issue with how well it reads in color blind mode. Those issues aside it's basically a super quick and easy fix.

qetzelNov 11, 20151 votes

It isn't quite that easy. That is a large amount of visual noise for what is a relatively small effect per champion. It will cause a lot of visual clutter and distract from gameplay.

To add to that, each individual instance of the auras was fairly weak. Even if the auras have visuals the power gained will still go unnoticed.

only zhuleNov 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

It isn't quite that easy. That is a large amount of visual noise for what is a relatively small effect per champion. It will cause a lot of visual clutter and distract from gameplay.

To add to that, each individual instance of the auras was fairly weak. Even if the auras have visuals the power gained will still go unnoticed.

I know. I'd much rather see a slip between the two versions. Where you get a more impressive buff from each aura, that stays on while in the aura range, BUT only lasts a few seconds. That way it is very clear what is giving the power boost, but you don't have this super awkward one time buff thing going on.

I'd also love a slight revert in the range. Sona was designed as a back line support and the rework really moved her up to a front line poke champion, but no changes were really made to make that play style change more viable (she still lacks hard CC outside of ultimate, is still super slow, still fragile as can be, and still no gap closers). Even if it's a change to the aura range so it's 525 range, i think that would make a huge difference in making her more playable in high ELO because she gets a little less risky when trying to help her allies.

It Is I EmotoNov 10, 20156 votes

Using terms like "retarted" pretty much bring downvotes, since it's kinda a ableist term, but let's be honest: Sona is currently way too focused on poke, while her pre-work was a nice passive support pick with alot of strenghts, wich were 'invisible', and rito really dislike invisible power, cause of whatever reason. Sooner or later, Aegis will be reworked too, removing the nice aura that gives everyone abit mr.

Anyways, I'm still wondering how rito is managing to extend this silence, Sona is still depending on ability power and her beloved Lich Bane, Cause her current W and E actives and buffs literally are extremly weak. I'd be grateful if they'd just update the utility of her other spells, as example a stronger shield, or that the movement speed buff duration for allies is as long Sonas aura lasts, that's literally a small improvement for me. I mean, why increasing duration of the Aura, when the buff duration does not get increased or anything?

RedCycloneNov 10, 201511 votes

But she is a mechanically retarded champion Her mechanics boil down to pressing buttons and standing in a safe spot as a full support

I would love more utility to work with too, or atleast a more potent E slow to actually have a form of peel early But i would just really love for her to get all the stuff that Riot considers "oppressive and anti-pattern" out of her kit and stuff it with something more "healthy"

It Is I EmotoNov 10, 20153 votes

{quoted}

But she is a mechanically retarded champion Her mechanics boil down to pressing buttons and standing in a safe spot as a full support

Ok, I gotta agree with this :P She's way too fragile to be close to an teamfight, and that's really a problem. Her ultimate is kinda a ability where you need to stand in the front row, and the best way to position yourself to do an nice ult, is using flash, wich can be always a hit or miss. I feel like, that she needs new utility and a new kit that's about buffing allies and de-buffing enemies, her current kit kinda does that with her Buff-Auras and Passive, but I feel like rito could pull that off better.

I personally had a kit like that as wip, but I feel like that noone would really care for it lmao.

It Hertz When IPNov 11, 20153 votes

In this context I took "retarded" at its literal meaning, to have one's progess forward hindered. With so many features in her kit her numbers (progress) cannot be moved up.

Astrael EventideNov 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But she is a mechanically retarded champion Her mechanics boil down to pressing buttons and standing in a safe spot as a full support

I would love more utility to work with too, or atleast a more potent E slow to actually have a form of peel early But i would just really love for her to get all the stuff that Riot considers "oppressive and anti-pattern" out of her kit and stuff it with something more "healthy"

....I feel like you just don't like Sona. She is my main support, and I build her full ap every time. She has impressive poke so I can keep enemy champions off of my adc, and in my opinion she has the most effective heal. Also late game she does massive AP damage if you build her right. Take a look at some builds and try out some new ones.

RedCycloneNov 11, 20153 votes

You main Sona and you build her full AP every time I do too

Once I could actually get support items on her, but you know

Miku Hime samaNov 18, 20151 votes

You claim he doesn't like Sona, yet he continuously advocates for buffs. You claim the opposite, yet you want her to remain unplayable trash. You seem to have your sentiments backwards, YOU are the one that hates Sona. This is proven by your actions.

Astrael EventideDec 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miku Hime sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7E02VZiL,comment-id=0000000000020001,timestamp=2015-11-18T22:42:24.278+0000)

You claim he doesn't like Sona, yet he continuously advocates for buffs. You claim the opposite, yet you want her to remain unplayable trash. You seem to have your sentiments backwards, YOU are the one that hates Sona. This is proven by your actions.

That makes no sense at all since in my post I commented about how much I like her powers and abilities, you are just trying to instigate sir. Good day.

DalthineNov 10, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Anyways, I'm still wondering how rito is managing to extend this silence

Meddler responded to a thread on Sona the other day.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EkxbfyvO-so-lemme-get-this-straight?comment=0008

It was off the front page by the time he answered, so it was hard to see without the red tracker. The main gist is that her reliability is so good that they can't make her feel rewarding. They will be looking at her after preseason settles, but I get the strong feeling nothing is going to help short of another rework, based on what he said.

Personally, I'd rather go back to the original of permanent weak auras, maybe with a better visual indication of their effect so it's less invisible.

It Is I EmotoNov 10, 20152 votes

Honestly, she's so strong because she's only effective if you play her as offensive poke support. That's what I'm doing, and I have a much better time at that, instead of playing her purley utility. Banner of Command, Lich Bane, maybe a morellos if you don't need somekind of defensive option (I'd pick frozen heart against hyper carries tbh) Abyssals, because why not having not just some more ap and mr, but also free 20 magic pen?

I honestly want to play her again with an mikaels, locket, and maybe a iceborn gauntlet, but her rework kinda ruined that, including these continues nerfs for literally a ruined rework.

It Hertz When IPNov 11, 20152 votes

That was what I liked about original Sona (playing alongside, never actually picked her up back then). If you want traditional poke/sustain/utility, there were options for that. Sona was for when you wanted to trade that active power for a more passive type of play. Of course, this was back when LoL was more strategy-based and less CoD wannabe.

Miku Hime samaNov 18, 20151 votes

The problem with Meddler's post in that thread was that it was completely false and dishonest, as was pointed out in several replies. He stated nothing that hasn't already been propagandized by at least 3 other Ritoers. At this point, every logically-thinking player has already realized that Rito has an anti-Sona hatred agenda and they've already planned to some day remove her from the game completely. It's not a matter of "if," but rather "when" they choose to pull the plug on her. She's already a vegetable in her current state, so I doubt it'll be too far off.

Dominick DestineNov 10, 20156 votes

She had 'way too much in her kit' before the rework and she felt great.

Remlap1223Nov 10, 20153 votes

And she was nothing but nerfed. You actually want her to be usable? Take some of that shit out of her kit so she can truly be meaningful.

Of course, the hivemind on the boards probably thinks its OK because she's not Thresh.

I await the sheeple to downvote me by taking what I said out of context and attack a straw man.

TransgressorNov 10, 20155 votes

Take a breath, and jump off your high horse, see things from a level perspective. You have a downvote from this sheep right here, who is this sheep to take away your self fulfillment.

Remlap1223Nov 10, 20151 votes

No, you see, the reason I'm on my high horse is so I don't stoop down to the level of the troglodytes that feel they have to bury differing opinions. So until you can have a rational debate with someone without the need to downvote someone with a differing opinion, I'll ride this high horse into the sunset.

TransgressorNov 10, 20156 votes

Hi there, daily Sona thread. Running out of novelty I see. Well don't fret!

-Passive that removes the cost of ANY ability at set intervals. -Ranged skillshot with great flight speed, slows first enemy hit, expodes to hit units further behind the initial target. Incredibely spammable. Reduce's passive's - cooldown. Provides immense waveclear -Massive AoE damaging root. Incredibly spammable, reduce's the passive's cooldown. Provides immense waveclear. -Long range damaging skillshot with very high base damage. Can be used as mobility. The mobility it provides is in the form of a blink, not a dash, which means it can be used as untargetability. The skillshot can also be used to juke, bait, and set up teamfights. Provides immense waveclear. -Massive AoE nuke that slows all nearby enemies. Damages the target in itself, and does damage with the AoE portion. Can be targeted on an enemy for a huge CC lockdown while still bursting the AoE damaging slow and damaging the CC'd target at the same time. Can be self cast to heal the champion instead, and still do the massive AoE damaging burst while slowing all nearby enemies. Can win games, can swing the pace around, can create/enable amazing wombo combos, has ridiculous utility. Reduces passive's cooldown. Lissandra

-No resource. Abilities cost health instead, a % of which is stored to give extra attack speed. Stored health can be then absorbed on fatal damage while putting you on stasis, only to revive you with the health absorbed. -High damaging gap closer, that does AoE physical damage on impact, knocks enemies hit up. Great waveclear tool, great gank settup tool, great gap closer. Has short range, relatively high coodlown without items. No practical resource cost. -Long range skillshot, does magic damage which is a mixture of his AP and AD along with the spells base damage, slows all targets hit. Offers great chasing/escaping, has great waveclear. No practical resource cost. -Autoattack based passive: increases physical damage dealt at the cost of health per 3 autoattacks, has a 1/1 ratio. Immense single target damage. Heals for a set amount of health per 3 autoattacks, tripples the heal when under 50% MAXIMUM health. Offers the single greatest itemless sustain in the game. Needs targets to make the best off of the heal, needs you to go into melee range to make the most out of the damage enhance, which is pretty dangerous given how weak your current state is. -Instant AoE nuke, that gives you passive based on enemy champions hit. Increases your attack range and attack speed for its active duration. Does magic damage. Has a 1/1 ratio. -A naturally hybrid kit that is hard to itemize against, sustain that will make all enemies frustrated to the point of disgust, great 1v1 potential, crazy sustained DPS. Aatrox

I can make any champion sound OP when I state their stats like a god damn shopping list. Among your sensless bitching, you forgot to mention a bunch of things about Sona. She is god damn paper thin, she'll fucking die with so much as someone blows on her. She is ridiculously item dependant, and she's a fucking support. Good lucking finding the gold to buy all the items you need. She has possibly the single biggest mana issues in the game as of right now. To make her auras work, given the fact that they are all so low ranged, you have to walk in harms way many many times, which doesn't help given she's paper thin.

Thank you Sona-QQ-thread-of-the-day for keeping it spicy nonetheless. [slayer-jinx-wink]

WheatloafNov 11, 201517 votes

This isn't a thread calling her OP, this is a thread saying her problem is that her kit does so many things, so reliably, that even when she's balanced she feels kinda shitty to play due to each individual thing being so weak.

RedCycloneNov 11, 20158 votes

At this point I think it's just meta for people to completely miss the point of a Sona thread and shitstir the thread with their inability to read I think it's a meme or something

It Hertz When IPNov 11, 20152 votes

So we went from the Sona-OP meta, to the buff-Sona meta, to now the QQ-about-Buff-Sona-threads meta?

Side note, these sticker things are getting more annoying by the day.

LankPantsNov 11, 20151 votes

So we went from the Sona-OP meta,

Even the patch after her rework she wasn't particularly OP out of bronze, she was strong but not OP. She then took 27 (I believe) nerfs in a single patch and has been utterly trash ever since.

It Hertz When IPNov 11, 20151 votes

I meant before that. I remember waaaaaay back a time where, in Silver-esque ELO at least, she was the Lee Sin of supports.

LankPantsNov 11, 20152 votes

She's received a rework since then and isn't really the same champ.

This iteration of Sona has never been better than not garbage, and for most of the time since her rework she's just been utterly garbage.

Ulquiorra995Nov 10, 20153 votes

Because LeeSin champions with lots of things Orianna in their kit obviously Thresh always get nerfed Irelia into the ground Lulu and aren't allowed to be viable Nidalee in this game.

Honestly, just give her to CertainlyT. He may make her into an unholy abomination of balance, but he will reinforce her theme and make her more interesting.

WheatloafNov 11, 20153 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EkxbfyvO-so-lemme-get-this-straight?comment=0008

Riot's said about this much just recently.

Red RyuNov 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'll say it SHE HAS WAY TOO MUCH IN HER KIT

way too much little shit, so using it all feels like you do nothing

okay, we got Q active damage Q on hit damage + Allies Q passive damage W self heal W allied heal W shield + Allies W passive damage reduction E speedup + Allies E passive slow R aoe stun R giving her skills more potency when ranked up

She just has too much shit in her kit to work with, really baffles me as to why this mechanically retarded champion has so much little shit to keep track of that paying attention to it is pointless Hike her skill ceiling up to the fucking sky, give her a reason to be played outside of getting to level 30 or playing while drunk, so many reworks fly by giving so much more depth to champions, yet with Sona you made her feel even worse to play and didn't touch a thing about her feeling crappy to play

You want to do away with auras altogether? okay, I am literally OKAY with that, Sona is a MUSIC champion, many other themes can easily be explored to give her a real support kit, and not one where half of her power budget has to be spent on power not in your hands because you could potentially tag 4 other people with it Autotarget? oppressive, okay, it deals like no damage anymore but if it's a problem, get rid of it, there is easily other options for supports to be able to harass over minions

At this point Sona could be reworked from the ground up, I feel that is probably the best option, as long as she has a music theme and is a support, unless I am completely wrong about other Sona players, I would not care if you re-rolled her entire kit for something waaaaaaaay more satisfying

Well daily Sona thread, but this one I agree with.

She does a lot, which is fine for a jack of all trades champion, but even then it's so small nothing sticks out too much.

But oh well I'll keep trying with her.

ThatHeartillyThoNov 11, 20152 votes

NO. Keep Sona as she is she's absolutely fine.

Daedalus871Nov 10, 20151 votes

Idea for reworking Sona.

KoKobotoNov 11, 20151 votes

I completely agree with OP can we just nerf Sona some more I hate how she can 100-0 me with Q alone... [slayer-jinx-unamused]

only zhuleNov 11, 20151 votes

You comment about passive damage, passive damage reduction, and a passive slow. Are you referring to her actual passive ability and its differing effects? OR suggesting she has these things in her active kit?