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So can we address Darius

Jefftiffy··2 votes·609 views

I don't understand. Is he a lane bully or is he late game. Because right now basically he is both. He doesn't fall off and bullys hard in lane. I mean you literally have to play perfectly as Gnar who is considered one of the best picks in top lane to win against him.

I feel like his power needs to be shifted out of his passive. Maybe change his bonus damage on 5 stacks from 40-200 AD -> 20->150AD. I mean instantly applying max stacks even if it goes off 1 time is stupid powerful when it adds 50-135 base damage and then also amps his ult and benefits from the bonus AD from itself. And it doesn't even turn off if he stays in long enough because of the way it procs on applying max stacks. You could even bump his crippling strike back up to an extra 50% damage instead of his current 40% to make up for it.

Right now there isn't a solution to building against him. He has free armor pen and builds extra and gets free AD. So building HP doesn't really stop him. The only solution is to never get in his range which is kind of bad for the health of Darius's kit.

I mean I could even see his 340 MS being changed to 335 just make him easier to kite since he synergizes so well with item 3742 and item 3071.

I feel like Darius literally shapes the meta top so much, yet he sees very little play because he doesn't get spotlighted much in the LCS due to better team coordination destroying his kit.

17 Comments

Slythion1 votes

I don't have much to say on the Darius part, but the reason Gnar has a rough time is because the "kite" part of his kit needs a little more extra range to be impactful. Darius's pull is longer than Gnar's auto range so it's difficult to poke Darius out without losing a forced trade

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

I don't have much to say on the Darius part, but the reason Gnar has a rough time is because the "kite" part of his kit needs a little more extra range to be impactful. Darius's pull is longer than Gnar's auto range so it's difficult to poke Darius out without losing a forced trade

The aa range buffs to him did help, but its literally like skirting life and death with every AA if Darius knows how to use his pull. And it feels that way with other ranged top laners as well. It's literally just so much risk to deal with him early game that I don't know how Riot has never addressed it and still let him have a late game.

asamu2 votes

Gnar can disengage immediately with his E and then kite Darius while his E is on CD, and darius won't get in melee range unless he can pull gnar. As mega-gnar, you can R Darius away/into a wall, stun him, and burst a huge portion of his HP.

Slythion2 votes

Gnar will still recieve 2 autos (Darius auto + w) before he lands safely away with a grasp proc and the slow applied Darius can walk up and Q (and if he has phage he can extend trades further with proper positioning).

As for kiting, a good Darius will simply hide behind minions and threaten him with Q. 15ish seconds really isn't a lot of time to trade back considering how close Gnar has to get to Darius's Q and his only other poke stops at minions.

As for his Mega form, assuming they are both full health, it isn't hard for Darius to fight a Mega Gnar as long as he avoids getting ulted into a wall which is fairly easy in the top lane, especially once Phage is completed. Outside that, Gnar can't dish out enough damage in Mega Gnar form to kill a Darius and lacks an escape where he can't be pulled back in. Trying to 1v1 a Darius as Mega Gnar simply isn't a good idea unless you've got a jungler coming top to gank as well.

Besides, I'm not trying to point out that Gnar is helpless against Darius. Far from it actually, but he walks a fine line between dominating and being dominated and there isn't much of an inbetween

I have experience on both sides of the matchup, but I won't pretend I know it all. It's possible that I just simply haven't faced and am personally quite a bad Gnar player but from my experience it's not as simple as "kite Darius out of lane" as Gnar, despite how Gnar's kit is advertised as the counter to Darius.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Gnar can disengage immediately with his E and then kite Darius while his E is on CD, and darius won't get in melee range unless he can pull gnar. As mega-gnar, you can R Darius away/into a wall, stun him, and burst a huge portion of his HP.

His pull is on a shorter CD than your E as Gnar. His burst is enough to make you have to back. Also his pull causes Gnars E to bug out sometimes and it will kind of stop short even if you hop after the pull is over. And Darius is just going to sit and heal on mega ganr because his hitbox is too big to dodge the Q outer ring. Its literally if you can magically live the entire lane and somehow kill him 3 times to make sure he can't come back. But if he gets even 1 kill the lane is over. You act like simply playing Gnar and using his abilities correctly makes you win lane. It doesn't because Darius just has to win the game of sustain and he out sustains Gnar if he plays aggressively and at least attempts to juke your boomerangs.

Joseph Gladstone1 votes

hi

Kaioko1 votes

I play Fiora and honestly it's usually a cake walk against Darius. Getting vitals early is easy and you get out of his range before he can use Decimate then you've got riposte to stun him if you're fast enough for the pull or just to block his Q pre 6 (he will still heal though). After 6 if you just save Riposte to block his ultimate he's not going to win fights. Then late game you scale better with around 10% max health true damage while being tanky with lifesteal.

Kayle is another one where Darius was always a cake walk but she's no longer as popular now. I will occasional pick her as a counter though just like I pick Teemo if I know it's a Tryn top.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

I play Fiora and honestly it's usually a cake walk against Darius. Getting vitals early is easy and you get out of his range before he can use Decimate then you've got riposte to stun him if you're fast enough for the pull or just to block his Q pre 6 (he will still heal though). After 6 if you just save Riposte to block his ultimate he's not going to win fights. Then late game you scale better with around 10% max health true damage while being tanky with lifesteal.

Kayle is another one where Darius was always a cake walk but she's no longer as popular now. I will occasional pick her as a counter though just like I pick Teemo if I know it's a Tryn top.

The thing is no matter who you play. You may "counter" Darius. But you are sitting there play Sudoku while he is playing Tetris. His kit is so much simpler to do well with than the people that counter him which basically helps cancel out part of the counter factor.

Kaioko1 votes

{quoted}

The thing is no matter who you play. You may "counter" Darius. But you are sitting there play Sudoku while he is playing Tetris. His kit is so much simpler to do well with than the people that counter him which basically helps cancel out part of the counter factor.

I've always been of the mindset that a simple kit should not mean that the champion gets less damage. Simple kits means the champion is predictable and that's exactly what you get with Darius (another example would be Annie). You know how he's going approach and when he's planning on using his ultimate. It becomes easier to predict the more experience you have. I don't typical refer to rankings in forums but if you like at his win rate by rank you'll actually see that it decreases the higher he's played.

TheOvermind1 votes

People need to stop saying he is a late game champ. His "scaling " stops at lv18. Lv18 == lategame

Yes his lategame isn't as irrelevant as it once was, but that doesn't make him a late game chAmp. Late game is darius' weakness. , when everyone gets those 6 items, he ain't gonna stand a chance in fights vs all that cc , kite , 6 item vaynes , Kogmaws velkoz's and cassiopeias out there

paperbIade2 votes

he beats all melee champs 1v1 is that not good enough?

TheOvermind1 votes

As a darius main, darius beats only tanks lategame or immobile champions. You know why ? Not because armor pen and true damage ( it's certainly a reason but not it ) Because they can't dodge his q heal if darius leads with w. He out sustains them that way. Late game he beats any tank or other juggernaut. Nasus , ww, illaoi , yorick , shen , trundle etc.

He gets rekt by Jax , yi, irelia , fiora, tryndamere, crit shaco etc All of those lategame champs outdamage him toe to toe and have tools to dodge all of his q heals by the time they 100 - 0 him.

paperbIade1 votes

irelia doesn't beat him he builds randuins and destroys her

TheOvermind1 votes

Triforce Into full tank irelia, no she gets rekt. Rageblade Bork high dps irelia shits on him.

Bladerunner77771 votes

You don't have to play perfect at all to beat Darius with Gnar

If you can't kill Darius when you have item 3022 item 3009 as Gnar then you're bad at the game (you can always play passive in lane until you get to this point as Gnar)

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

You don't have to play perfect at all to beat Darius with Gnar

If you can't kill Darius when you have item 3022 item 3009 as Gnar then you're bad at the game (you can always play passive in lane until you get to this point as Gnar)

You do realize building 4k worth of items is already past the point where the lane is decided. If you don't shut him down before his 4k then he is going to roll your team if you are the only CC. Rushing Frozen Mallet also leaves Gnar lacking in damage, CDR, and armor pen. You sacrifice a huge amount rushing an item that only really effects Darius. Let's also pretend that building no resists is also a good thing on Gnar and forget that he has the lowest base stats in the game except for maybe Thresh.

Bladerunner77771 votes

Gnar doesn't need damage, CDR, or armor pen at all. His W + fervor is all the damage he needs as long as he can stack it, and to stack it means not dying, and being able to kite every champion that doesn't have tons of mobility is not dying.

One of the most important stats for Gnar iirc is health, and Frozen Mallet gives plenty of that.

Lowest base stats in the game

You think I don't know how Gnar works? At level 6 Gnar's mega form gives him something like 2.6k gold worth of stats, at level 6. The efficiency only grows with his level.

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