Please Revert the Karma Mantra Changes from 5.10

Sugar Momma·Feb 7, 2017·14 votes·1,030 views

I've played hundreds of games as and I have come to the realization these changes were a mistake. At the time, all she needed was W targeting monsters, and the buff to her passive.

You may have made her more viable, but she is so BLAND and BORING to play now! It was so much better when she had dualistic nature to her kit (each ability had a defensive + offensive nature). Not only was it consistent with her lore/theme, it was a lot more fun. Now, her mantra is basically a power boost to any of her abilities, which basically makes her no different than , except she gets her ult at lvl 1.

18 Comments

Miror BFeb 7, 20178 votes

I forget when, but I remember Phreak saying that someone on a karma will literally never win "player of the game" honors in any competitive environment due to how simple her kit is. Kinda a shame, really.

h5LYF41LamFeb 7, 20171 votes

Nami Janna Soraka are these champions ever gonna get play of the game? at least with karma you ca go full ap as support and still be usefull with your shields. with the others if you dont go with those lame as hell support items your team treats you like hitler.

Miror BFeb 7, 20171 votes

{quoted}

are these champions ever gonna get play of the game? at least with karma you ca go full ap as support and still be usefull with your shields. with the others if you dont go with those lame as hell support items your team treats you like hitler.

Yeah, I've actually gone full-AP soraka in ranked games (often building liandrys as it works well with her poke and the heal), although it is super linear it's ridiculously effective assuming you don't get one of the thousands of potato adc's that seem to roam bronze.

And I'll check, but I'm pretty sure that barring one adrian soraka game (in which he went like 0-0-30) none of those characters won player of the game in 2016, at least in the west.

IxtaliKingFeb 7, 20171 votes

Soraka probably not, but Nami and Janna both have more depth to their kits and more play making potential than Karma, so I'd be more surprised if that statement was aimed at Nami or Janna . All Karma support does late game is RE, poke with Q to reduce Mantra CD, use item actives and then RE again. If you go full ap Karma support you're gonna have to take kills (or minions) so you can afford those ap items, otherwise you're gonna suck with that support budget.

h5LYF41LamFeb 7, 20171 votes

did you just put janna and in depth in the same sentence? janna is the most brainless support in the game. Completely NO interaction with the enemy team in the lanephase. Literaly the only support in the game that has such a generic and blant playstyle. "HURR DURR TRICK EVERYTIME I PLAY JANNA I INSEC THE ENEMY WITH FLASH R HURR DURR"

IxtaliKingFeb 7, 20172 votes

Lool this actually made me laugh. I did put Janna and depth in the same sentence... simply because she has more of it than Karma. I would rather play as Karma, but that's because I like mages and I like to deal damage. But in terms of options, and how they effect the game Janna has more to offer. You can also tell the difference between a 10 game Janna and a 100 game Janna, I don't think you could with Karma.

Now, I absolutely agree she's almost completely non-interactive and boring to play against, as is Soraka. If I had my way I'd rework all Enchanters to have more engaging offensive patterns, and give more of them healthy solo viability like Karma. After all, if damage focused mages can go bot, it's only fair more supports can go mid/top. I think it would make the game more interesting tbh.

IxtaliKingFeb 7, 20177 votes

The truth is, there are no Rioters who particularly like Karma (at least not in their gameplay department). To them Karma is just 1 of over 100 champs, so if they can make her more popular by simplifying her kit and changing her numbers, they will. That's why they say "Karma's in a good spot", because she's played. Whether or not the people who loved her before 5.10 enjoy her now isn't Riot's concern, they don't even dignify our grievances with a response; not even to give clarity.

If Riot were to respond to this thread (which they wouldn't) they'd tell you "there are a lot of people who like Karma as she is", even though there's also a lot of people who don't. They have objectively made her more bland, more generic, less cohesive and less thematic... but she's fine because LCS. Karma the go-to generalist support, how exciting.

SpârkyFeb 7, 20171 votes

K im a silver monkey here but i like to think that i have lots of good opinions on the game and i see all the valid points of why people dont like karma shes the only support i can play decently and yes her kit is bland but some champions have to be that way so newer players can pick them up. would i like it if all the bland champs were reworked into really in depth champs? yes. But i think their thought process was make karma more user friendly (bland) so more people can pick her up and play her with success. Thats all i think it is. When you are a company as big as riot you can't please everyone. Like me for example i think yasuo should be banned until you reach plat or higher.

Edit: Main point here is you can't please every person/group of people when making a video game thats as popular as league of legends

IxtaliKingFeb 7, 20172 votes

But i think their thought process was make karma more user friendly (bland) so more people can pick her up and play her with success.

Possibly, I just don't believe in removing depth from a character because now what we are stuck with is a character with an almost non-existent mastery curve. There is nothing to her anymore, they have taken everything that made her special. So yeah, while they may have made her more accessible, they also deleted her in the process.

WinterkillFeb 7, 20174 votes

They won't. I have posted so many threads asking for change, telling the community about old Karma and Riot Games treatment towards her. The old community that used to love old Karma is gone. The new players do not care about old Karma and they only want her the way she is now. The new players outnumber us. Riot is going to keep all of the changes and will probably do nothing more than a numbers buff again on something in her kit. Riot Games just doesn't care and they will find any excuse possible to do nothing on her. This is how Riot Games is.

Sugar MommaFeb 9, 20171 votes

I'm not asking for old Karma . I never played her. I'm asking for the Karma before they changed her R-W and R-E.

A little PeepoFeb 9, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sugar Momma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=73dbHGmH,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-02-09T18:22:41.173+0000)

I'm not asking for old . I never played her. I'm asking for the before they changed her R-W and R-E.

Riot has never gone back on their changes even if they are the solution. We may as well get used to the idea that karma will keep receiving nerfs until she is garbage tier.

MatakeFeb 7, 20171 votes

I doubt you've had the time to play thousands of games period. If so, you need a life.

Sugar MommaFeb 7, 20174 votes

It's more close to a thousand probably...And Karma is the only champion I play pretty much. That's over 4 seasons too.

h5LYF41LamFeb 7, 20171 votes

i would pick karma over janna soraka nami anyday.

QuephaFeb 7, 20171 votes

If you're using your experience with Karma from before 5.10 as evidence that your claims are valid, then you should probably at least post from the account you actually played with from that period.

Sugar MommaFeb 8, 20173 votes

I had 497 ranked Karma games in Season 5, as well as 20 in Season 4.

RaiokunFeb 9, 20171 votes

Riot just released that the old karma (enchantress mid) meta had too much wave clear and not enough interaction with the other laner, so they had to go. It's kinda BS to me, they already nerfed all the buffs they gave karma back in 5.10, along with making crystal specter a useless item on her. I honestly think she's gonna be the first champion to be removed from the game at this point.

I wouldn't even mind if they just came out and said 'Sorry, Karma was a mistake' without refunding all the skins I paid for her. It's kinda sad, because back at 5.10 they were talking about 'Champion diversity' and how they're fine with having different champions take different roles, but as you can see, a year an a half later, she's nothing more than a Soraka that doesn't have to spend HP to help their carry.

Take it this way, karma is the new most nerfed Ionian in the game? Better nerf karma, eh? Irelia