PBE thornmail changes are not the solution

Saixos·6/29/2017, 1:11:56 AM·2 votes·667 views

I put this on Reddit since I wanted thoughts from the community, figured I'd put it on here in hopes of grabbing Riot's attention and getting some of their thoughts too.

Quick recap for anyone who hasn't read PBE:

2900g [Bramble Vest + Ruby Crystal + Warden's Mail + G]

250HP, 75 armor

Upon being hit by a basic attack, reflects magic damage equal to 10% of your bonus armor plus 25, inflicting Grievous Wounds on the attacker for 1 second. When hit by basic attacks, reduce attacker's attack speed by 15% for 1 second.


This version of thornmail seems to be intended to help manage lifesteal and autoattackers which, in the current meta, run quite rampant. There is definitely a need for thornmail or a different item to help manage these kind of champions. However, the changes that have been put on PBE are not the solution.

The problem with thornmail is that it constantly returns damage to anyone who autoattacks the champion. This essentially forces ADCs and certain other champions to buy lifesteal in order to avoid killing themselves on thornmail. Even with lifesteal these champions can still kill themselves on thornmail.

  • Thornmail implies that it is a bad idea for ADCs to be autoattacking the tank. ADCs are generally the primary tank killing force in most teamcomps, and discouraging them to autoattack the enemy frontline will prove problematic.

  • Thornmail offers absolutely no counterplay to itself. While you can itemise to deal with thornmail through lifesteal and MR, mercurial as an item is far from enough and it is unreasonable to expect champions to purchase multiple items merely to be able to deal with thornmail.

I'm disappointed because this seems like an opportunity to finally make thornmail a good and interesting item for all players involved. There are a number of good alternatives, such as tying the reflection to an active and making it stronger, or limit the reflection to autoattacks from a certain direction like braum's shield, or removing the damage reflection and having thornmail remove all self-healing for a few seconds instead of grievous wounds.

Thornmail with no proper counterplay which encourages bad play patterns and forces players to itemise against it cannot be a good item, it can only be frustrating to play against and dull to play with.

9 Comments

Critkeeper6/29/2017, 10:34:59 PM2 votes

If you run the actual numbers, the PBE thornmail is objectively worse at countering lifesteal than the live thornmail is, as hard as that is to believe. You can check my math:

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/gE7AtJLM-the-actual-math-behind-new-thornmail