Thoughts of an Orianna main

DoktorKaiser··31 votes·2,863 views

Ok when I casually entered the forums couple of days ago I was stunned when I found out that people are complaining about my lovely main, my perfectly balanced main who was never called broken or toxic (at least by anyone who understands the game). For the first time in 7 years of maining her I see this, so naturally I go fucking full salt mode raging at everyone who dares talk shit about my lovely robot girl. But to be frank, I havent played much of Orianna recently, I spent so many years practicing her and learning every trick you can pull out, I got to high elo but all my friends already quit and nobody gave a fuck any more, so when my best friend finally got into league I decided to chill with him and play some new cool stuff.

Anyway I digress, so I havent played much Ori lately and I decided to see what the problem seems to be, is this just a bunch of bronzies complaining or is it a ciclejerk becuase Faker played her or is she really that good. Was my perfectly designed champion really toxic now?

And my conclusion is honestly no. She isnt inherently broken, she still fits the game perfectly, she has lots of counterplay and I dont see any single part of her kit as problematic. Then is she really as strong as people say she is? Maybe too strong? I am afraid I have to actually say yes. I was amazed when I walked into lane casually and tried to poke with my Q-W-auto , the damage was high (maybe a bit higher than I remember it being) but what really surprised me is my fucking mana. It was full in a blink of an eye. Uhmmm what the fuck? I proceeded to spam Q-W brainlessly as soon as it came of cooldown BEFORE EVEN GETTING LAST CHAPTER OR CATALYST and I NEVER WENT OOM. WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS ?!?!?!?!?! Late game is even bigger of a joke, I literally felt like playing with 6 Seraphs. I am pretty fucking sure that in season 2 a couple of rotations of my spells would drain my mana pretty easily, let alone early game when going for Q-W harass was a huge risk you had to take because missing it means you are now at half mana and did no damage to the enemy. Now with me being able to spam it off cooldown I can see why people complain about her zoning, hell I zoned off champions like Lux or Syndra simply because the game allowed me to. All this nonsence about shockwave's low cooldown and huge utility imo comes from the fact that you can abuse the items to always have 40% cdr and always have mana to do whatever the hell you want.

So is Orianna op broken lul RITO pls nerf?
No, she is still perfectly designed and has extremely clear and obvious counterplay.

Is she abusing the absurd amount of CDR and mana regen that other mages just cant utilize nearly as hard as well as her counters being shit-tier?
Yes, yes and yes again. Its not even funny how easy it is for me to carry games as a person who invested 4-5000 games in this champion, but I imagine that now even a person who has low experience on her (not first time players, you cant play Ori properly before at least 50-100 games on her which is why her win rate is never above 50%) would do pretty well.

Proposed nerfs?
Revert the Q buff that lowered its mana cost, its pathetic and feels like a Karthus Q spam. Its not how Ori is designed to be played. Maybe add 10-20 seconds on shockwave early game if people really have that much problem dodging it now (again due to the constant Q spam which was enabled). Nerf her early game if it is a must, some base damage on her W and R could be cut off. AND FINALLY NERF MANA REGEN ON ITEMS, THIS ISNT URF, I DONT WANT TO PLAY YASUO AND SPAM AROUND BECAUSE IF I DID I WOULD PLAY FUCKING YASUO AND DO THAT !!! Bring back the need to think before you just spam all your shit as a mage because hurrr durrr why not.

Nope.jpg nerfs? Do not , I REPEAT DO NOT push her into support with stupid damage nerfs and utility buffs, I wont lose yet another of my favorite champs to the support role (rip Morgana, Brand, old Karma) . It would seriously make me quit the game... Do not remove parts of her kit, her kit is not the problem, its the best kit you ever made in my honest opinion and with the amount of true damage, free mobility and other shit you stack on champs today, she is the best you will ever make (doe props to gems like aurelion or taliyah, I even like jhin and ivern). Do not nerf her late game, its when she is supposed to shine, not in the lane, but in the late game. Do not remove her safety in lane, she gets fucked by assassins as soon as they are meta, maybe not as hard as most other mages but she still does and she is supposed to be like Gangplank in the mid. Turtle it early, still possible to get a lead but only with hard outplays and outtrades. Monster late game with huge ulti that wins games, some nice utility and good DPS.

Also please do not pretend like she is that safe of a pick, she is easily gankable, she can be killed without much effort, dont make her into a Yasuo or Lee Sin or something that is actually a design problem just because you have a frustration and could never before say bad things about Ori's design because you (rightfully so) got flamed and downvoted to hell.

TLDR - I have a strong opinion that the main problem is the infinite mana pool in the current meta which Orianna benefits from greatly (maybe even more than any other champ) at all stages of the game and combined with the fact that all her hard counters are weak right now, she is pushed a bit over the edge. Nerf her mana early game, maybe even damage, dont touch the late game or utility since that is her identity, she wasnt a problem ever before in 7 years and she wont be now, soft nerfs or natural meta change will put her back in perfect position.

99 Comments

AmazoX16 votes

Problem with Orianna is she has way too much damage combined with safety and one of the best zoning's/cc in the game. The right thing is to nerf the damage because of how much utility she offers single handedly in a team.

Thefrostyviking6 votes

{quoted}

Problem with Orianna is she has way too much damage combined with safety and one of the best zoning's/cc in the game. The right thing is to nerf the damage because of how much utility she offers single handedly in a team.

But she trades it for her actions being more visible then a giant cinema screen, beating Ori has always been all about knowing what she does and when.

I have never personally had any issue with any Orianna unless the player was a damm lot better than me.

AmazoX3 votes

{quoted}

But she trades it for her actions being more visible then a giant cinema screen, beating Ori has always been all about knowing what she does and when.

I have never personally had any issue with any Orianna unless the player was a damm lot better than me.

Then I guess you never played against a High Elo Orianna player.

Thefrostyviking6 votes

{quoted}

Then I guess you never played against a High Elo Orianna player.

And you have the right to say writing from a smurf? ._.

The idea that you would know since that's a smurf account you're writing from? ._. Just the fact that you have one is pretty much proof that you are a toxic jerk that don't give a flying damm about the people you play with on that "casual" account.

And if you are not smurfing then you truly lack the qualification to speak of high elo, however seeing your history i am nearly certain that you are doing it ._.

If Orianna was truly so damm strong as you claim that she is then her winrate should be higher as should her pickrate.

Alas, her pickrate remains at 14% and her winrate at 49% according to OP,GG-

And i am too lazy to check elo by elo on lolking.

The two dominating picks for mid in terms of popularity and winrate are Ahri and Tf, both sitting at 15 and 19% playrate and over 52% winrate.

More players and higher winrates, how is ori an issue compared to either of those?

Ori has one real issue and a potential one, the confirmed one is that her ulti CD is rather short and it could use an increase.

The other is her mana cost on Q but that's debatable, her other mana costs are enough to keep her in line since she can't spam her Q all over and deal damage without her W that actually costs a lot unless the opponent keeps tripping over her ball.

And i have played against plenty of Ori mains and i have seen her in pro play too, she is far from exceptional in any regard except her ultimate.

AmazoX2 votes

If a champion is picked in Pro play it's because they are exceptional, Orianna is hard to play, Even the OP stated that so it makes sense for her not to hit 50%+ win-rate with such a pick rate.

Tahm Kench, Vladimir, Ryze, Rengar are one of the few characters that had the exact same situation as Orianna but were nerfed.

They were pick/ban in Diamond+ up to LC$. They had a lower win rate than Orianna currently does in SoloQ while having a high pick rate.

These have been cases where the champions were nerfed by Riot Games despite having a win rate lower than 50%

Please don't exaggerate with the mana costs, This item item 3165 solves majority of the mages including Orianna's mana problems for just 2900 G.

What's your argument?

DoktorKaiser5 votes

Lets see why:

  • Tahm Kench - was unkillable due to his shield and has a semi-global movement for him and other teammate, besides his W. Let me tell you something, those things are extremely broken in pro play and even now when he is trash tier in solo queue (at the time he was broken top and supp, hell even mid) he is still a high tier pick in LCS

  • Ryze - same shit as Tahm, after all the nerfs and getting to trash tier in solo queue he is still broken in LCS because of global movement and extremely strong targeted spell, in this case his W root

  • Rengar - are you fucking serious, I understand the other ones mentioned as they were OP in a short periods of time, Rengar is a problem since his release back in Season 2, I had years and years to build up my rage against this terribly designed champion that offers 0 counterplay, maybe least in the game when fed, but is utterly useless when behind. His rework did nothing to help that so he is nerfed to be trash tier untill he is worked on again, thank god for that.

  • Vladimir - unlike Tahm and Ryze, Vlad has another problem that has no counterplay and that is his endless healing on a manaless champion, he is also very safe, much safer than Orianna but offers 0 utility for the team and is hard countered by Executioners so I never really had problems with Vlad, but I think RIOT dont like his design so they nerfed him as soon as he popped off in competitive

As for the item 3165 argument, you are completely right, the item is overpowered as fuck and as I said, no other mage in the game can utilize both almost endless mana and huge CDR as well as Orianna. Morello needs a nerf and god I still dont understand why they pushed Athenes on to supports since now its an item that nobody buys and Morello is so strong that its built on 95% of mages (which was exactly why they reworked Athenes in the first place). Dumb decisions by RITO.

AmazoX2 votes

What does Orianna have in common with those champions?

  • The character is exception in High ELO and LC$ with a high pick rate and a lower than 50% win rate, Those were examples as to champions getting nerfed even though they were not 50% win rate at anytime or close to 50% win rate.

This was my argument to ''Not 50%+ win rate'' no need to nerf argument, You acknowledge it yourself that it did indeed happen.

DoktorKaiser5 votes

Can you sir fucking read?

Did you maybe, just maybe see things like NO COUNTERPLAY in my description of mentioned champions. Or true damage? Or % hp damage? Or global mobility?

Which of these does Orianna have again? Oh right she is an immobile, mid range mage that has a lot of damage, a good aoe ulti and a shield. Wooooooooooow such amaze, so little counterplay, totally not killable by any assassin or diver at all stages of the game, which of course is hard to pull in LCS due to good organisation, but rather easy at all ranks of solo queue. I really have no idea where you get your dumb opinions from... Certanly not from high elo players, I havent seen a single person make a statement "orianna us broken as fuck, RITO pls". She is meta now, she could use minuscule nerfs and she will never be a weak pick because she is designed so that with enough skill you can manage in any meta even though she doesnt have mobility or true damage or % hp damage or 3 hit passive or blinks or dashes or teleports or even fucking hard CC. THAT is a good fucking design, so you can deal with it or keep qq-ing on the forums...

Pathfinder Yasuo6 votes

I play orianna in d+

ahri instantly fucks me lux instantly fucks me xerath instantly fucks me then there's vel,fizz,veigar,lb,ziggs,kass can beat her I can play kat into ori and win

if ori beats you in lane, it's because she played better

DoktorKaiser6 votes

Ok things like Lux, Syndra and Xerath are skill matchups, but they are superior in lane, but god the other ones you mentioned, especially Fizz, Ahri, LeBlanc and Kassadin (the ones you cant rush Zhonyas against) are really hard matchups. Part of why Ori is strong - Fizz nerfed, LB nerfed, Ahri nerfed, Kassadin still going strong doe.

AmazoX2 votes

If her laning phase wasn't medicore, She would have been at the state of being hot-fixed, It's for balance.

DoktorKaiser5 votes

After reading all your shit, your brain is in a hotfix state honestly... And she is not mediocre in lane she is really powerfull and still only a few select tards spam on the forum, makes it look like people actually think there is a problem even though its like 15 bronzies spamming all day long. Smh...

AmazoX3 votes

your brain is in a hotfix state honestly

Coming from the same person with no argument who cannot control their emotions and proceeds to become toxic towards the person they disagree while having no argument.

Alright.

DoktorKaiser5 votes

I tried reason and to find a solution, but at this point all I can say to you is - fuck you bronze scrub, learn to play, ori will probably not even get nerfed hahahahahahhahahahah

DoktorKaiser5 votes

Early game yes, late game no. Also if you remove her early game stats and maybe damage she wont be as safe any more in lane which she also is because all assassins are nerfed with Fizz and Ahri being the latest victims. What is the problem with a champion being monster late game? Nasus does the same thing, so does Karthus, so does Gangplank or Vayne or any full late game champion. You try to play safe early and wait for 4+ items. Problem now is that Ori doesnt really have to wait to start dominating and if she wants to play safe nobody can touch her, if you delay her power spike she will be fine again. Dont forget that we are talking about an immobile mage with no hard CC to defend herself (unless she spends an ulti for that) that plays for late game when everyone can 1 shot her.

AmazoX4 votes

{quoted}

Dont forget that we are talking about an immobile mage with no hard CC to defend herself (unless she spends an ulti for that) that plays for late game when everyone can 1 shot her.

Her ability of Command: Protect, Also don't exaggerate, High Elo Orianna players know better than this to not ever be alone and take full advantage of their kits, She's way too safe, After the Assassin Rework, Not one Assassin can touch her except until level 9.

Problem now is that Ori doesnt really have to wait to start dominating and if she wants to play safe nobody can touch her, if you delay her power spike she will be fine again.

She's hella strong because she gets to hit like hard as hell after level 8-9 when she gets an item and some components.

Thefrostyviking8 votes

{quoted}

Her ability of Command: Protect, Also don't exaggerate, High Elo Orianna players know better than this to not ever be alone and take full advantage of their kits, She's way too safe, After the Assassin Rework, Not one Assassin can touch her except until level 9.

She's hella strong because she gets to hit like hard as hell after level 8-9 when she gets an item and some components.

Which mage does not hit hard after 9 with some items? Most mages are able to kill squishy targets in a single combo at that point if played well.

AmazoX3 votes

And which mage offers insane utility while having safety?

I'll give you a hint, A robotic girl with a ball.

Thefrostyviking7 votes

{quoted}

And which mage offers insane utility while having safety?

I'll give you a hint, A robotic girl with a ball.

And it's all conditional and obvious, and really, who actually cares a lot about Ori´s E? It's doesn't really do anything early on unless the ori goes for a cheese start with E and auto´s.

And later on its just a shield among many, she still dies to a strong all in, and so what if she can deny a bit of poke? Plenty of champs can do it,Or do you disagree, mr smurf?

Or are you saying lux is op too? She is nearly the same in a number of ways, shields, CC, even more burst and range. Just higher mana costs and base ability CD's.

And then...insane utility? She as 1 ability that acts as either a AOE slow or speedup for her team or damage.

1 barrier, and one AOE draw in.

So she has 2 forms of CC and 1 stat buff and one barrier ability.

Sure, it's a lot for a mage, but what of it? She trades damage for it.

Malz on the other hand has a AOE silence on a 3,6 seconds CD. in a clustered teamfights this is insanely powerful, something i´ve been abusing to a great deal of success and his ultimate just flat out shuts any rampaging melee down.

Syndra with a 7 sphere ultimate using a standard build deals a bit more than 2000 damage, to a target below 100 mr, even now it's common practice to just stack spheres at the edge of a fight then flash at a carry and ulti them or a instant kill. I´ve done it and it's ridiculous effective.

And it turns into a AOE stun following that, and she has true damage.

Viktor is a god of AOE and zone control, along with Zyra and Anivia.

Really, Ori has one good function that causes her to shine, it's her ultimate, and then she has the benefit of a low cost Q.

Both could stand to be increased now that all her counters have been nerfed and she´d be fine again.

DoktorKaiser6 votes

Truly well written man, I dont think he can present any reasonable arguments any more, he got rekt :)

Thefrostyviking6 votes

{quoted}

Truly well written man, I dont think he can present any reasonable arguments any more, he got rekt :)

I have no idea why people suddenly started hating on a really well balanced mage all of a sudden x)

I mean sure, the others have been nerfed, and she has a fairly short ulti cooldown but that´s it.

Any half decent Syndra is a damm terror in the midlane and for some reason no one seems to care all of a sudden, i myself play malz with banshee veil and his passive making it nearly impossible to beat 1v1 and the only reaction to this i ever got was that people wonder why cleanse doesn't work on his ultimate.

And no one has said a word about the stacking spheres and then flash ulti on Syndra to instakill carries either, most people just said something along the lines of "dumb champ" and then that was it.

Not a single word on it being stupid that Banshee works on malz.

And yet for some reason people have lost their shit about ori.

I am nearly speechless.

DoktorKaiser5 votes

Morons who never played her managed to E a Malphite and then press R after his and get a pentakill so they now think Ori is easy to play and abuse or something. I am sick of this 1 idiot spamming with his smurfs, I bet all the hate comments here are his. What a sick person...

Thefrostyviking2 votes

Not all of them are, some people are just inexperienced or simply don't know how to deal with unique mechanics such as Oris ball.

But that one guy really drives people nuts ._.

In his last comment he seriously called her E OP because of it dealing damage on the way back.

And it was supposedly better then the summoner spell barrier in the midgame.

As if people don't max E last leaving it at a barrier of 80 base+40% AP.

I am seriously thinking he's some mindless derp that just keeps walking into her ball and then get mad because whichever ori he plays against activates it.

Or get's mad because he can't dive in 1v3 and instakill ori because E+Barrier+zhonya+banshee.

Actually, the fact that he mentions Zhonya nearly makes me certain that he was playing some assassin since Ori doesn't really build it otherwise unless playing against lux i think.

AmazoX1 votes

You laid it out yourself on several comments and in the end you say you're speechless and state ''For some reason'' which is pathetic.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

Some people, refers to you and handful of others.

Nearly all the people saying it have been downvoted to oblivion, far more than the Ahri hater posts which are infamous for dispersing instantly.

You fail to understand that ori is balanced around a single mechanic and that she get's to have those strengths because of the giant glaring weakness that her ball brings.

And that is why nearly all your comments are downvoted.

Revali4 votes

My issue with orianna, while I agree with what you said, is the resistances the ball offers along with the shield

that makes trading with her very difficult even if you play around the ball well.

and with items like zhonyas and banshees giving resistances all of what orianna wants, she's actually very difficult to take down because of it.

Thefrostyviking6 votes

{quoted}

My issue with orianna, while I agree with what you said, is the resistances the ball offers along with the shield

that makes trading with her very difficult even if you play around the ball well.

and with items like zhonyas and banshees giving resistances all of what orianna wants, she's actually very difficult to take down because of it.

Most mages currently build banshee and also Zhonya if needed, not really any difference.

In my own opinion it's banshee that´s an issue by itself.

I´ve been abusing it while playing malz with having his passive+banshee making it impossible for others to fight me head on or just letting me drop a full combo barely taking any damage at all.

Most long range mages just use it to be super safe though.

And Orianna's Ball only offers 10+to both Magic resist and armor at rank 1. It's not a lot and is barely noticed.

oh and the barrier is only 80 base with a 40% ap scaling.

And since you max it last it kinda remains that way through the game.

If she uses CDR blues then her magic resist is the same as anyone else, sure it's a small advantage but she trades other things for it so its fine.

And if she doesn't then you just gotta poke more rather then try to huge 100-0 all ins.

AmazoX4 votes

{quoted}

And it's all conditional and obvious, and really, who actually cares a lot about Ori´s E? It's doesn't really do anything early on unless the ori goes for a cheese start with E and auto´s.

Except it will hurt away a good portion of a squishy enemy's health mid-game? & You bought up her ''early-game'' yourself while defending it with how her ''E is useless'' argument except even the OP stated that it's hella strong, Her Command: Dissonance has 250 base damage & 70% AP ratio, That is not ''nothing''.

And later on its just a shield among many, she still dies to a strong all in, and so what if she can deny a bit of poke? Plenty of champs can do it,Or do you disagree, mr smurf?

It is a problem, Her shield while travelling back to hurt, The ball can hurt you, It gives her a shield and bonus Armor And Magic resist when someone all in's combined with her E, She will outrun the Assassin without getting harmed much, This is a very nice defensive ability for a mage to have, It's a nice combination of kit and defense in her kit, Except when she has this good of a defense combined with her insane damage & one of the best cc's/zoning in the game, It's way too much, Which is what my argument was in the first place.

Or are you saying lux is op too? She is nearly the same in a number of ways, shields, CC, even more burst and range. Just higher mana costs and base ability CD's.

I never mentioned Lux, You bought her up yourself and here's my answer to you item 3140 item 3111 item 3157 are the most simple counters to her long-ranged damage.

And then...insane utility? She as 1 ability that acts as either a AOE slow or speedup for her team or damage.

Do not deny that, She has one of the best ultimates on the game with lots of damage that is a game changer along with safety. The main reason you would pick Orianna is because of her game changing ultimate cc/zoning A.K.A utility, The damage is just sweet bonus early-game/mid-game.

1 barrier, and one AOE draw in.

I do not know any other mage that has a barrier better than a summoner 21 early-game/mid-game with bonus resistances consisting of Armor & MR which is what is stopping an Assassin from doing their jobs early-game/mid-game, Even the OP stated that, Hence it meaning that we're in a agreement even though the person is an Orianna main.

So she has 2 forms of CC and 1 stat buff and one barrier ability.

Utility & defense^

Sure, it's a lot for a mage, but what of it? She trades damage for it.

The damage is too high for the utility and defense she has mid-game & late game.

Malz on the other hand has a AOE silence on a 3,6 seconds CD. in a clustered teamfights this is insanely powerful, something i´ve been abusing to a great deal of success and his ultimate just flat out shuts any rampaging melee down.

Single-targeted spell that immobilizes Malzahar as well it's when you want to nuke him, That's a great ability, But his damage is a joke, Each and every part of his kit was nerfed to oblivion to the point he could not lane at Mid without feeding the enemy tons of time, Malzahar is a support now.

Syndra with a 7 sphere ultimate using a standard build deals a bit more than 2000 damage, to a target below 100 mr, even now it's common practice to just stack spheres at the edge of a fight then flash at a carry and ulti them or a instant kill. I´ve done it and it's ridiculous effective.

What does this have anything to do with Orianna? Congratulations on using this tactic effectively.

Viktor is a god of AOE and zone control, along with Zyra and Anivia.

  • Zyra is a support, Not good enough early on to deal with Mid laners.

  • Viktor does not have safety, Also his cc & damage is delayed.

  • Anivia has safety & utility in exchange for abilities that are fairly avoidable and her damaging basic abilities are single target.

What does all this have anything to do with Orianna?

Really, Ori has one good function that causes her to shine, it's her ultimate, and then she has the benefit of a low cost Q.

''To shine'' <-- What? ''To Shine'' has nothing to do with balance, That's not how you view a champion's kit balance wise with what makes them ''Shine'', You view their Pros & Cons, Problem is, Orianna has very little cons.

Both could stand to be increased now that all her counters have been nerfed and she´d be fine again.

Then again, It depends on Riot Games whether which part do they want in her kit to be nerfed? Her safety, utility, damage?

If they touch her utility too much, I do not see a reason to pick Orianna anymore, Her damage is the problem when she has way too much of utility and safety.

Thefrostyviking6 votes

Are you seriously going on about her mid/lategame? Tell me one mage that can't oneshot or at least chunk 70% of a squishy target's health in 2 spells at the same point.

And who is crazy enough to stand still while trading with her? That's like asking to be ulted.

Her damage isn't anywhere near insane, where are you getting this from? Insane is Veigar or Syndra that both can straight up delete tanks. Ori can at most take 20-40% of their health.

And Ori can't threaten people if she wants to kill them, have you actually played her? Sure you can protect yourself and make it harder to engage on you but you can't both kill your opponent and defend at the same time.

Because her ball can't be everywhere, if she zones you from farm then she´s open to ganks, if she likes moving it around all over then you just buy boots and engage on her after she´s missed a round.

Counterplay to Ori ulti? item 3102 item 3157 ....same as lux really, it´s easy.

The reasons her ulti is great? Short cooldown for it's effectiveness. It's great but far from "insane"

And best CC in the game? That's not what she has, if it was unconditional and instant it would be but it's not, you can even flash the ability before it activates. Some like Fizz can dash ontop of her and then use his E to avoid her ulti completely if she tries to use it.

Really he is one of the best counters against ori just because of this.

And her barrier is single target. and how is better then the summoner spell?

She maxes her E dead last, meaning it´s a 80 base shield + 40% of her AP?

How is this OP? Even with two more points it's just 160+40%, that's like 2-3 autos from a damm mage.

You're screaming fire but there isn't even any smoke ._.

And i myself play malz mid, i have 7 games won out of 8. In ranked gold. He is far from bad if you actually know how to play him. He craps on most assassins and Ahri&TF.

Why did i mention Syndra?The other mages? For the sake of comparison, with how strong they are and how little you can do to stop them is it's even ridiculous to mention Ori on the same page in terms of damage.

And all of Ori´s abilities are easy to avoid if you are even half decent at this game as long as she doesn't stick her ball ontop of something like an ulting Hecarim .

And how is Ori safe? She can only deal damage if she stands on the same average range as any other mage, exception being her ultimate which can have more range if she sticks her E to someone and they dash into a clustered enemy team.

Unless you think Syndra or Ahri are super OP too? Syndra has even better damage and zoning and more range(safety?) while Ahri has the ability to kill most champions for the smallest mistakes while remaining super safe herself.

And the only way to accurately grasp a champion is looking at their performance and the pro´s and cons.

ori´s pro's are decent damage, good zoning, great ultimate and good utility.

Her cons are that everything she does is extremely obvious, mana costs, and mobility.

Really, Ori is absolutely nothing special when compared to the other mages in any regard except only her ultimate, because it has a short cooldown, that is all it has.

Her damage, range, CC, averages the same as everyone else, why are you whining over a champion that has been hailed as the best balanced mage in the entire damm game for years?

Her ability to kill things with some items? Which mage can't?

Her ability to shield some poke? Her slightly better than average AOE? Her slightly over average range?

What are you even mad about? Did you get utterly trashed or what? You probably played some Assassin and failed to kill her in lane because she kept the poking you when you wanted to go all in and then in teamfights she just protected herself or the ADC and the other then killed you.

Really, in all the posts in this thread you´ve done nothing but whine and present stuff that barely makes any sense.

Her damage for a mage is below average, her shield is weak until it's maxed and her range is average.

Compared to literally any other mage she has one good point, a solid teamfight ultimate on a short cooldown.

Please open your eyes.

AmazoX1 votes

{quoted}

Are you seriously going on about her mid/lategame? Tell me one mage that can't oneshot or at least chunk 70% of a squishy target's health in 2 spells at the same point.

You are changing the subject with this question, It has nothing to do with my argument about how she lacks cons but fits all three categories of Damage,Utility and lastly Safety.

And who is crazy enough to stand still while trading with her? That's like asking to be ulted.

Another question that has nothing to do with my argument.

Her damage isn't anywhere near insane, where are you getting this from? Insane is Veigar or Syndra that both can straight up delete tanks. Ori can at most take 20-40% of their health.

When combined with her safety & utility, It is, Besides her Command: Attack & Command: Dissonance would take 60-70% of a squishy target's health pool if you are going to talk about that point of the game.

And Ori can't threaten people if she wants to kill them, have you actually played her? Sure you can protect yourself and make it harder to engage on you but you can't both kill your opponent and defend at the same time.

If an assassin stays on her tail for more than two seconds, It's enough time for the Orianna player to out-damage the assassin to the point if the assassin stays any longer, The assassin would be eliminated, And an Orianna would never go alone, So you are not killing an Orianna late game as an Assassin.

Because her ball can't be everywhere, if she zones you from farm then she´s open to ganks, if she likes moving it around all over then you just buy boots and engage on her after she´s missed a round.

If she zones from farm, Orianna has Command: Protect.

  • ''Moves it around all over'' No orianna is going to do such a thing, If Orianna were to do that, She'd be dead long ago.

Counterplay to Ori ulti? item 3102 item 3157 ....same as lux really, it´s easy.

Wrong, It works as Darius's Pre-nerf Apprehend ability, If you walked out of it, You would still be pulled back to the ball.

The reasons her ulti is great? Short cooldown for it's effectiveness. It's great but far from "insane"

It's a game changing ultimate, It's what you mainly pick Orianna for in the first place.

And best CC in the game? That's not what she has, if it was unconditional and instant it would be but it's not, you can even flash the ability before it activates. Some like Fizz can dash ontop of her and then use his E to avoid her ulti completely if she tries to use it.

It's not a 1v1 the entire time on SR? No Orianna is going to stay alone, Orianna's team would prefer team-fights over any other strategy hence her zoning potential is one of the best in-game.

Really he is one of the best counters against ori just because of this.

Only in laning phase for the first 12 minutes until Orianna get's item 3157

And her barrier is single target. and how is better then the summoner spell?

I just explained how it's better in my previous comment.

She maxes her E dead last, meaning it´s a 80 base shield + 40% of her AP?

If Orianna is maxing her shield last when enemy composition consists of burst then there is a problem with the player.

How is this OP? Even with two more points it's just 160+40%, that's like 2-3 autos from a damm mage.

Please don't be clueless, No Orianna is going to use Command: Protect to negate some AA off an enemy mage, You would want to use Command: Protect to negate enemy abilities.

You're screaming fire but there isn't even any smoke ._.

This has nothing to do with anything at all.

And i myself play malz mid, i have 7 games won out of 8. In ranked gold. He is far from bad if you actually know how to play him. He craps on most assassins and Ahri&TF.

In Gold. Please come to higher divisions of platinum or reach diamond, It will be a whole different game.

Why did i mention Syndra?The other mages? For the sake of comparison, with how strong they are and how little you can do to stop them is it's even ridiculous to mention Ori on the same page in terms of damage.

First of all, The comparison you are doing isn't fair, It's like saying a kindred with 100 stacks is going to outdamage Orianna.

  • You have to compare their whole kit in every situation with potential level's varying. The most simple comparsion would be how Syndra lacks safety while Orianna lacks nothing.

And all of Ori´s abilities are easy to avoid if you are even half decent at this game as long as she doesn't stick her ball ontop of something like an ulting Hecarim .

So you are saying that the players at Diamond+ up to LC$ are worse than half decent at the game.

And how is Ori safe? She can only deal damage if she stands on the same average range as any other mage, exception being her ultimate which can have more range if she sticks her E to someone and they dash into a clustered enemy team.

Her defensive capabilities and utility are safety indulged in her kit.

Unless you think Syndra or Ahri are super OP too? Syndra has even better damage and zoning and more range(safety?) while Ahri has the ability to kill most champions for the smallest mistakes while remaining super safe herself.

Once again, Those champion's have nothing to do with my argument and are changing the subject but here are my words:

  • Syndra has better damage but lacks Orianna's zoning potential because she doesn't match Orianna's level of utility in kind. When Syndra wants to output her extreme burst damage, Syndra is risking herself into a zone where Syndra would be easily finished off because Syndra has no defensive capabilities to utilize from certain death

  • Ahri lacks utility, Simple as that.

And the only way to accurately grasp a champion is looking at their performance and the pro´s and cons.

ori´s pro's are decent damage, good zoning, great ultimate and good utility.

Her cons are that everything she does is extremely obvious, mana costs, and mobility.

''Extremely obvious'' That varies and applies to every single champion, Mana costs are none-existent and you laid it out yourself several times & like DoktorKaiser stated, Is an Orianna main.

Really, Ori is absolutely nothing special when compared to the other mages in any regard except only her ultimate, because it has a short cooldown, that is all it has.

You laid Orianna's supposedly pros and cons, Comparing to the other mages, Orianna lacks things that other mages do not at the cons category.

Her damage, range, CC, averages the same as everyone else, why are you whining over a champion that has been hailed as the best balanced mage in the entire damm game for years?

Prove it.

Her ability to kill things with some items? Which mage can't?

A few statements ago you stated that Orianna's damage was decent And Orianna's ability to utilize the best zoning/cc thanks to Orianna's Command: Shockwave & Command: Dissonance combined with quoting you ''Her ability to kill things with some items? Which mage can't?'' combined is what makes Orianna's zoning singlehandedly overpowered.

Her ability to shield some poke? Her slightly better than average AOE? Her slightly over average range?

It's very easy to state abilities seem weak without evidence.

What are you even mad about? Did you get utterly trashed or what? You probably played some Assassin and failed to kill her in lane because she kept the poking you when you wanted to go all in and then in teamfights she just protected herself or the ADC and the other then killed you.

Another thing that has nothing to do with the argument.

Really, in all the posts in this thread you´ve done nothing but whine and present stuff that barely makes any sense.

Coming from the same person that no argument.

Her damage for a mage is below average, her shield is weak until it's maxed and her range is average.

Compared to literally any other mage she has one good point, a solid teamfight ultimate on a short cooldown.

Easy to state abilities while making them seem weak without evidence.

Please open your eyes.

Coming from the same person who has yet to provide an argument after 4 comments that have no meaning & evidence against my argument about Orianna except changing subjects while supposedly ''comparing'' to other champions.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

{quoted}

You are changing the subject with this question, It has nothing to do with my argument about how she lacks cons but fits all three categories of Damage,Utility and lastly Safety.

No i am not, i´ve been trying to say this for a while but she trades something really damn important for this.

The fact that you are ignoring this is utterly ridicoulus and you´ve been ignoring this too.

Another question that has nothing to do with my argument.

And it does, for it ties in with the fact that her actions are telegraphed, she get's to be strong because its easy to outplay all but one of her possible actions.

When combined with her safety & utility, It is, Besides her Command: Attack & Command: Dissonance would take 60-70% of a squishy target's health pool if you are going to talk about that point of the game.

And your lack of experience shines through, Syndra and veig can both delete tanks if played well from a extremely early point, Syndra can do it starting at lvl 7 and veig at 9.

Ori with her W alone at lvl 10 and 300 AP (being generous) deals 370 damage....Ashe at the same lvl has 1,1 k hp so i don´t see your math work out really well here.

If an assassin stays on her tail for more than two seconds, It's enough time for the Orianna player to out-damage the assassin to the point if the assassin stays any longer, The assassin would be eliminated, And an Orianna would never go alone, So you are not killing an Orianna late game as an Assassin.

like....this argument......first you state that an assassin cant stay near ori for more than 2 seconds then you reinforce with her never being alone.

But dude, no mage will ever give you more than 2 seconds, if you stick around for longer in a teamfight against a protected backline then you´ve already failed.

If she zones from farm, Orianna has Command: Protect.

And how is that supposed to protect her from a gank? Any jungler can just go ontop of her, CC her and then she will have to flash because the opponent will kill her otherwise.

Her E is far from OP,,,,which you would know if you ever bothered to check her numbers.

  • ''Moves it around all over'' No orianna is going to do such a thing, If Orianna were to do that, She'd be death long ago.

Most Ori players will move their ball in respons to enemy movement, the fact that you state that that would be weird is like stating that you're getting zoned out by a stationary ball ._.

Wrong, It works as Darius's Apprehend ability, If you walked out of it, You would still be pulled back to the ball.

Except unless you´ve been CC'ed first then you can still avoid or flash her ulti.

And for zhonya, WHICH YOU CONVENIENTLY IGNORED, you can just activate it whenever you see her start the ultimate and it will never work. She can't outplay that because of how slowly it activates.

It's a game changing ultimate, It's what you mainly pick Orianna for in the first place.

Oh and here is the very thing that you should have thought about from the start, the answer to all your questions.

The reason she is popular in pro play.

Ori is one of the very few teamfighting specialized mages in league of legends, while average in pretty much every other regard she has instead been polished to be a good teamfighter.

This is why the pro´s adore her, for even if they give up on winning lane phase they won't lose out too badly and her strengths in a coordinated team are more then good enough to make up for a lost tower or two.

Glad you understand.

It's not a 1v1 the entire time on SR? No Orianna is going to stay alone, Orianna's team would prefer team-fights over any other strategy hence her zoning potential is one of the best in-game.

And how can she zone a tank? Because that is the only thing she will ever be close enough to zone, nope.

Ori excels when her team engages or when someone on her team manages to jump into a clustered enemy team, otherwise she is far less effective.

But since the pro´s are good at setting that up, it's easy to understand why they like her. For her ultimate is indeed great when proper setups are done.

Only in laning phase for the first 12 minutes until Orianna get's item 3157

Dude, ori won't rush a frigging zhonya.

Or she will have mana issue's for the coming 15 minutes, only exception is when against Zed. But no one would ever pick Ori into zed.

I just explained how it's better in my previous comment.

What you did, is to claim that her E is better than barrier in the midgame.

Which is pretty much bullshit since no orianna ever maxes E second, it never happens because she loses too much damage and barely gains anything.

Even with 700 AP and a max rank E that barrier will at most be 520 something,by the time she gains 700 AP that's nothing.

If Orianna is maxing her shield last when enemy composition consists of burst then there is a problem with the player.

Except it won't actually save her from a burst that would kill her anyway unless it was a poor combo to start with.

And no self respecting Orianna would ever be caught out so badly so often as to thinking that such a weak ability would be a good idea.

The reason her barrier is even half decent is because of her damage, but if she maxes barrier then she won't have damage.

one can't eat cake and save cake at the same time.

Please don't be clueless, No Orianna is going to use Command: Protect to negate some AA off an enemy mage, You would want to use Command: Protect to negate enemy abilities.

What difference does it make between ability and autos? damage is damage and as long as the barrier is used up then there is no loss.

This has nothing to do with anything at all.

The fact that you don't understand this saying is utterly pitiful ._.

In Gold. Please come to higher divisions of platinum or reach diamond, It will be a whole different game.

The fact that even Diamonds in this thread are saying the same things as me ought to let you understand.

Syndra has more range than ori, more damage and she has the ability to kill tanks, short of a malphite or Hecarim, who would ever go near her? Her safety comes from the fact that no one wants to threaten her unless prepared to die for it.

So you are saying that the players at Diamond+ up to LC$ are worse than half decent at the game.

No, i am saying that you fail to understand the reason she is strong.

Her defensive capabilities and utility are safety indulged in her kit.

mhm, and how is she to deal damage if giving herself a speedboost? How can her E hurt someone if it's ontop of her? You mentioned that being stupid or something earlier.

You fail to understand that she can't do everything at once, she cant do damage and attack at the same time.

Once again, Those champion's have nothing to do with my argument and are changing the subject but here are my words:

The reason i and so many others keep comparing Ori to other mages is so simple, and it sad that you can't even understand so i shall attempt to explain.

If a champion is average would you pick it over one that is super strong?

Orianna, compared to other mages, has 1 strength.Her ultimate,her damage is average, her range is either the same or less and her laning is also average.

But her ultimate get's to be good if used very damn carefully instead. Because of how easy it is to outplay the ultimate it's mainly good in coordinated teamplay.

It's a tool that shines in good hands working together while remaining subpar for everyone else, but that is fine because it's a ability made for teamplay in the first place.

  • Syndra has better damage but lacks Orianna's zoning potential because she doesn't match Orianna's level of utility in kind. When Syndra wants to output her extreme burst damage, Syndra is risking herself into a zone where Syndra would be easily finished off because Syndra has no defensive capabilities to utilize from certain death

Lacks zoning? Syndra can near instantly kill anything that intrudes on her zone. From a greater range than Ori too.

I have no idea where you got the impression that Syndra is harder then ori then ori, because she is not.

''Extremely obvious'' That varies and applies to every single champion, Mana costs are none-existent and you laid it out yourself several times & like DoktorKaiser stated, Is an Orianna main.

And here you sweep my arguments aside because you´ve got no answer and give a vague statement instead, this is why no one is taking you seriously.

You laid Orianna's supposedly pros and cons, Comparing to the other mages, Orianna lacks things that other mages do not at the cons category.

Because Ori´s con is massive for anyone except pro players in clusterfked teamfights. No other mage has such a weakness.

A few statements ago you stated that Orianna's damage was decent

Indeed, decent but far from amazing, her damage is below any other mage.

And Orianna's ability to utilize the best zoning/cc thanks to Orianna's Command: Shockwave & Command: Dissonance combined with quoting you ''Her ability to kill things with some items? Which mage can't?'' combined is what makes Orianna's zoning singlehandedly overpowered.

And this assumes that she actually hits things, but due to the added difficulty that ori faces has its fine that she does this.

So to summarize, Ori gets to be good at teamfighting because her moves are easily spotted and easily avoided unless she gets external help. There is absolutely nothing you can argue argue against this because it's the truth.

You can ignore this as much as you want but no one will listen to you, not a single person which is seen on how many downvotes your comments have. Go back to smurfing you toxic and disagreeable person.

TheSingularity8 votes

Velkoz. Not as much as ori but enough

AmazoX2 votes

Vel Koz can easily be jumped on because his one CC ability is delayed, So he does not have safety.

TheSingularity7 votes

and? so it oriana's ult. Both have a slow and a displacement spell. ori's slow has situational travel time as does her ult if the ball is re positioned.

Any squishy mage can be easily jumped on because many CC spells have some form of delay, and then QSS exists.

If ori panics and fucks up ball placement she dies. If vel'koz panics and misses his really big E point blank, he dies. Brand Cassiopeia Karthus Lux Swain Taliyah Ziggs They all operate at a similar range, have delayed CC or lack a decent safety net altogether (karthus).

Cass, ziggs, taliyah and lux offer utility and obscene damage at and depending on the game before level 9

Frightning6 votes

Hello: Lux Zilean Are definitely Orianna tier in that regard.

ZapMyHeart8 votes

Rito's nerf flowchart.

  1. Nerf something that is totally irrelevant to Orianna's "brokeness".
  2. Repeat #1 for following patch
  3. Finally address the problematic point in the following patch
  4. Leave her in the trashcan for a few months
  5. Buff something totally irrelevant that wouldn't make Ori okay again
  6. See #4
  7. Buff her to a decent level because LC$$$$

Am I doing it right?

Divewing13 votes

You missed reworking Ryze and buffing Lee and Graves

TheGoomyGamer7 votes

{quoted}

You missed reworking Ryze and buffing Lee and Graves but removing 5 ad and 5 ms from them both so the community doesn't complain about favoritism

Fixed that for u there bud

Banana Nations7 votes

I think one of the reasons ori is good right now is not a stat problem. I believe its more that she is good into meta mid laners. Its more a meta shift and shes likely to fade back out into A/B tier again later on

Sexy Jack Rabbit7 votes

I feel like all the posts saying Orianna is OP is just another redundant boards circle jerk. She's really no worse then a lot of other mages right now. Annie Syndra Ahri and Lux all present the same issues. I don't understand in what area she's any worse then the above.

HaIlMonitor1 votes

To be Fair though Her and annie are the only two that do really well when they go even or slightly behind. Where the other 3 can be worthless if they don't get ahead by in lane.

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

A champion being behind means they are not going to be as good as when they're ahead yes. That's a pretty redundant argument. That being said, Syndra Stun and Lux picks are always relevant.

Thefrostyviking6 votes

I as someone who has played Ori a bit buy mainly play other mages will add my opinion to this.

Ori isn't broken.

This because while her zoning and all in's are both good she does trade it for her actions being more visible then fireworks on new years in a capital.

Sure, she can be a pain and difficult to deal with very early on thanks to her barrier and passive but with boots and a bit more mana most mages should have little issue trading with an Ori on equal terms.

All one gotta do is to be careful or her all in potential at 6 and then that should be fine.

If feeling confident one can move in while making sure to dodge or flash past a Q to avoid her main damage and try to kill her before she runs of, for unless you're already low on hp she won't be able to kill you with just E-R-Q-AA before you can kill her with a full rotation of your own.

(I've done that a lot and it does work quite well with practice. )

Zoning you from farm? She can do it but she becomes open to ganks if that happens, her range is not that huge because she can't actually move the orb well if she stands too far away.

The only thing that could stand to be nerfed is ulti cooldown but that's it.

Shadòw6 votes

exactly.

not her kit is the problem, but that she can spam her stuff on lane way too often thus being too much of a lane bully for the amount of late game power she has.

she just needs the mana cost buffs on her Q from a couple patches ago reverted and she is fine again.

DoktorKaiser6 votes

Thanks man, finally someone agrees with me :)

Theorex6 votes

Go to www.reddit.com/r/OriannaMains KThxBye, there is a whole reddit subgroup for champion mains. Other than shit tier champions that no one wants to admit that they main.

sardiniii6 votes

Well writen

DoktorKaiser6 votes

Thanks, I really wanted to have a discussion and try to persuade people who call for bad kind of nerfs that I am right, but then again its only my opinion, BUT I think that at least for Ori I can state my opinion proudly as I invested years into learning this champ :)

sardiniii6 votes

<3

Shahamut3 votes

I proceeded to spam Q-W brainlessly as soon as it came of cooldown BEFORE EVEN GETTING LAST CHAPTER OR CATALYST and I NEVER WENT OOM.

stopped reading right here... If you are spamming it off cooldown, you will go oom... quickly...

Level 2, that combo costs 100 mana... You have 370 mana at level 2... That is 4 rotations with your mana regen... So no. You were not spamming it brainlessly off cooldown.

Your Mana regen is only like 6 at level 2... so unless you are also perfect cs (+24 mana per wave with Dorans Ring) you won't get more than 5 rotations by spamming it mindlessly. and its up every 9 seconds. Thats 45 seconds, less than one minute, you are oom.

Im not even an Orianna main. Ive played her a few times, since I have just recently switched to mid lane. Her damage isn't off the charts, especially if you compare to other mages. All of her skills are skill shots except E, which grants a shield. She is near completely immobile.

I will agree if your assessment is there is a lot of damage in league, because there is. Damage is so friggin high atm. But Orianna is not anywhere near the top of offenders in this regard. I mean, look at Syndra? Miss, miss, miss, press R with max spheres, they die. :P

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