Why are you doing this to yuumi?

JuiceBoxP·Jul 10, 2019·53 votes·15,655 views

Why would you encourage an uninteractive champion to be even more uninteractive?

Buffing her E and nerfing her passive in such a way that gives no logical reason to ever detach from her ally.

Fact is, this champ sticks to the most fed member of her team, gives them a ton of healing and sustain while there is nothing the enemy can do about it.

Champions like soraka and nami which give huge healing can be focused down in a fight and be taken out to prevent healing. Yuumi can't be focused and will output huge amounts of healing/shield/movement speed/cc

A perfect example is a yuumi attaches to a fed master yi. She basically fills every single weakness he has(being squishy, having no cc) and there is NOTHING you can do about it.

And to be honest some adcs with her on bot lane make them literally untouchable in lane.

29 Comments

EleshakaiJul 10, 201918 votes

Here's the reasoning:

Yuumi is REALLY strong in pro but not so strong at lower ELOs. Since she meets their criteria for a nerf based off of her pro presence, she needs a nerf. But they don't want to hit her in ways that make low-skill Yuumis weaker. So they took a look at the difference between a really good Yuumi and a mediocre Yuumi... and yup! You guessed it. The main difference is that top tier Yuumis get full value out of their passive, while mediocre Yuumis don't. So.... by reducing the power of the passive, they can make top tier Yuumis a bit weaker without having a huge impact on the less skilled ones.

JuiceBoxPJul 10, 201911 votes

{quoted}

Here's the reasoning:

Yuumi is REALLY strong in pro but not so strong at lower ELOs. Since she meets their criteria for a nerf based off of her pro presence, she needs a nerf. But they don't want to hit her in ways that make low-skill Yuumis weaker. So they took a look at the difference between a really good Yuumi and a mediocre Yuumi... and yup! You guessed it. The main difference is that top tier Yuumis get full value out of their passive, while mediocre Yuumis don't. So.... by reducing the power of the passive, they can make top tier Yuumis a bit weaker without having a huge impact on the less skilled ones.

That's actually a very logical explanation. i still hate it though.

It is essentially a buff to low elo and nerf to pro, by this theory...

Chromatic EagleJul 10, 20191 votes

It is. That’s probably their intention.

EleshakaiJul 10, 20191 votes

Exactly. It's the same thing they did to Akali a few patches back. They nerfed the part of her kit that pros were able to abuse hard so that they could reduce presence in pro a bit but not make Joe Gold-player or Sally Platinum-player feel worse about the champ.

JuiceBoxPJul 10, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Exactly. It's the same thing they did to Akali a few patches back. They nerfed the part of her kit that pros were able to abuse hard so that they could reduce presence in pro a bit but not make Joe Gold-player or Sally Platinum-player feel worse about the champ.

But at the same time intensifying what is frustrating when fighting this champ - the fact she is untargetable.. I do not believe this is a very healthy change for her. maybe healthy for pro play, definitely not healthy for low elo.

EleshakaiJul 10, 20191 votes

Not saying it's a perfect change, but the intent is right, and it's hard to judge the actual impact until we see it in action.

Tuition FeeJul 10, 20193 votes

Cassiopeia AurelionSol Ryze Azir Taliyah Rito plox Think of us commoners

BestPudgeNAJul 10, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Here's the reasoning:

Yuumi is REALLY strong in pro but not so strong at lower ELOs. Since she meets their criteria for a nerf based off of her pro presence, she needs a nerf. But they don't want to hit her in ways that make low-skill Yuumis weaker. So they took a look at the difference between a really good Yuumi and a mediocre Yuumi... and yup! You guessed it. The main difference is that top tier Yuumis get full value out of their passive, while mediocre Yuumis don't. So.... by reducing the power of the passive, they can make top tier Yuumis a bit weaker without having a huge impact on the less skilled ones.

Yuumi is really strong in lower elo, don't let the new champ WR fool you. These changes won't really nerf her in pro play either, she still has OP mobility, a broken teamfight ulti and lacks any real counterplay.

PartholonianJul 10, 20192 votes

From the pro games I've seen (which I admit is not all of them), when she actually gets through bans she gets destroyed more often than not, since the last few rounds of nerfs. It's not just about her skill level, but her opponents' too; pros can literally hook her out of her W animation before she goes untargetable, which she has basically no chance of surviving.

Although I suppose that raises the question "then why do pros keep banning her" implying a different outcome in scrims...

Anyway, as I posted upthread, outright removing her ability to risk her life for mana while also increasing her mana costs seems like a hypernerf that will make her worthless in all elos.

At the very least they ought to buff her base and/or per level mana regen to compensate for the passive's removal (which has constant value regardless of how good you are at using her passive, so it still serves the objective of countering her Azir syndrome, if you're right that that's what they're trying to do).

IllabetheJul 10, 201911 votes

The nerfs just look wow to me.

It's like Riot has a completely different set of rules for old reliable champions and new ones as to what needs adjusted and what state they can be left in.

Like..... Nami.... Nami's been a good old reliable 53% champion all her days.

But Yuumi gets near 48% and needs to be hit with about four different bricks?

And then there's the old reliables that are performing 60% in Grandmasters/Masters because the champs really ARE broken when in the hands of the right computers/mice/players, that never really get nerfed (Katarina/Talon)

But yea.... kitty whose usually dead as a double whammy if her adc misplays totally deserves every skill nerfed.

JuiceBoxPJul 10, 20198 votes

{quoted}

The nerfs just look wow to me.

It's like Riot has a completely different set of rules for old reliable champions and new ones as to what needs adjusted and what state they can be left in.

Like..... Nami.... Nami's been a good old reliable 53% champion all her days.

But Yuumi gets near 48% and needs to be hit with about four different bricks?

And then there's the old reliables that are performing 60% in Grandmasters/Masters because the champs really ARE broken when in the hands of the right computers/mice/players, that never really get nerfed (Katarina/Talon)

But yea.... kitty whose usually dead as a double whammy if her adc misplays totally deserves every skill nerfed.

I don't think she should be weak. I think in her current state, being strong is not healthy for the sake of balance.

She is a crazy win-more champion. Put her in a team that's feeding, she's useless.

But because she is a win-more champion it can be extremely hard to capitalize on the weaknesses of the fed carries, because she practically covers them up with heals and shields.

This is imo a bad champion by design, which can never be balanced.

They should rework her into something that allows more counterplay when a head and more comeback potential when behind.

DarthArchonJul 10, 20191 votes

True, i play aggro support and laning against a Yumi is plain dull and easy, basicly a free lane with a adc that won't farm. But if she attach to a fed tham kench they become a wrecking machine that need 3-4 player to kill.

The guys who thought that champ was a good idea need to have a meeting with the boss

MiracleMorg94Jul 10, 20193 votes

FYI, Nami was nerfed a few months ago for no fault of her own but just being at that 53% win rate. She didn't need it but Riot decided to nerf her instead of the others that you mention that need it more than she does.

IllabetheJul 10, 20191 votes

Nami's last nerf was 8.20, and all they did was take 5-15 damage off her Q.

She has been basically untouched since Season 7, where they buffed her cooldown to Q (along with Morg/Lux/Jinx)

MiracleMorg94Jul 10, 20193 votes

They took off 5-25 damage off her W, not her Q, and she had been untouched before then and was doing fine. She didn't need a nerf.

ΝamiJul 10, 20192 votes

{quoted}

They took off 5-25 damage off her W, not her Q, and she had been untouched before then and was doing fine. She didn't need a nerf.

If I remember correctly, it was a reduction to healing done on the W for the last nerf.

The damage stayed the same as Nami's damage and scalings aren't exactly high, but the W gives quite reliable poke so the damage adds up if people don't respect Nami.

Of course that's all match up dependent as it depends on the enemy support and ADCs, too ;-)

I haven't been playing top much recently so if there was another nerf since the one I'm thinking of, I could be wrong.

MiracleMorg94Jul 11, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If I remember correctly, it was a reduction to healing done on the W for the last nerf.

The damage stayed the same as Nami's damage and scalings aren't exactly high, but the W gives quite reliable poke so the damage adds up if people don't respect Nami.

Of course that's all match up dependent as it depends on the enemy support and ADCs, too ;-)

I haven't been playing top much recently so if there was another nerf since the one I'm thinking of, I could be wrong.

Yea that's the one. She hasn't been nerfed since then though.

14daysuspensionkJul 10, 20192 votes

To her lore though, her kit is pretty much disappointing. If you read the story you'lll know that she searches around for her owner by teleporting in a book. In game, she doesn't even resemble what her lore tells us. Ult should've atleast been something like a portal (I know Ryze already has it, but still).

preternaturalJul 10, 20192 votes

quite frankly yuumi should be disabled and go back to the drawing board. refund anyone who bought a skin, no one minds if they lost no money.

SoujiJul 10, 20191 votes

This change leaves much to be desire imo. I really enjoy playing her and imo her passive is one of the most fun parts of her kit and feels really good to get a clutch shield to turn an unfavorable fight in our favor. They are essentially just lowering her skillfloor. I feel like her average WR might go up because the people who cant play her correctly will be rewarded for afking on their ally with heals. 50 health shield early isn't much of an incentive to ever hop out early in lane which gives enemies less windows to go on her. Plus no mana return. Why hop out when hopping out heavily is skewered in being an unfavorable risk early when a single auto can be enough to break said shield lol. May or may not be a big of an exaggeration but you get the point.

invisiblecat1Jul 10, 20191 votes

I think the only nerf she needs is that she should detach from the ally if that ally is under hard cc That way she has to press W a few more times, and can't be guaranteed invincibility in a fight if she attaches herself to a fed carry This, I feel like, will also encourage her to build boots early and take flash, which will also play a part in decreasing her power

PartholonianJul 10, 20191 votes

Even assuming for the sake of argument that she NEEDS to be nerfed more, I don't think removing passive mana restore is a good way to do it. That just removes an incentive to detach.

Because her passive can only be procced while detached, investing MORE of her power in her passive (e.g. by lowering its CD to compensate for some of the other nerfs and mana increases) would force her to take more risk more often.

Maybe it's a bug? Increasing mana costs while also removing a mana regain mechanic (for the low, low price of risking instant death) would be a pretty obliterating hypernerf to someone who is a useless sack of bonus gold+exp when OOM. The other nerfs seem like more than enough already.

AlterMordredJul 11, 20191 votes

Idk, Q mana cost increased while E mana cost nerfed, E heals more, you have less mana regen cause no passive mana restore.

In essence, every Q you use you couldve healed twice, they are encouraging Yuumi mains to play with E and R attached to a small 2x2 keyboard

GotauiaGamesBrJul 11, 20191 votes

DESTROY THE E-GIRLS

The KombinatorJul 11, 20191 votes

It's not like you should focus any support though. Beside Soraka. She remains exception for pretty much everything.

Tanky supports are ignored, because they are tanky, and beating the ADC is more important. They still has their uses, but since tank nerf they are worthless in later stages. Unless enemy is seriously stupid.

Poker supports are just another laner. In lane phase they should only be focused for all-in, because you aren't able to stop their combo in most cases, and once that's over their damage will be drastically reduced. ADC on the other hand will do it's damage constantly. After midgame they should get the attention depending on how fed they are, and in lategame you focus them the same way you focus any DPS.

Protectors can also be ignored in most cases. Lulu, Nami, and Janna can defend themselves the same way they defend their ADC, and while they sacrifice some buffs in doing so they make you use your time and CD on them instead of the guy who destroys you. Yuumi can be ignored, because you don't have a choice.

And there is Soraka. If not countered, then easily the most powerful support since rework. And if enemy can focus, and buy heal reduction, then nothing special. Even better counterplay is to focus her directly. Since her self heal is much less, than her heal to others.

Now think about it for a second. If Yuumi were a usual protector with usual health, and being targetable. Would it worth focusing her? The answer is no. Her healing is not so ridicilously big as Soraka, and she can heal herself for the same value. If Yuumi stands close to the ADC, then getting the ADC first would be still better.

Now here comes Yuumi's "power". The ability to heal frontliners without being targeted. Well there are 2 type of them.

Pure tanks should be ignored at all times. With or without supports. Unless you fight against them only this isn't really a problem since you should focus someone else. If tank takes no damage, then there is nothing to heal. You gona beat it when teammates are gone in 2v4.

Damage dealers stands above priority over supports. They kick your ass while you kill the support. Just like an ADC.

Yuumi has 2 big problem in my view.

Extreme sustain. This part gets solved, but here mana gain from passive made her able to heal the carry, and poke forever. Something other supports couldn't do. Well maybe except Bard, but he has other strong weaknesses.
Her ult has way too low CD compared to it's power.

To be honest supports in general are too weak since forever compared to other roles. The only support who is strong enough to get any attention is Soraka. All other can be neglected.