So Meteos just went up against TSM with 4 other solo que players

WadeWilson1337·Feb 20, 2016·89 votes·4,670 views

...Again. Seriously, Meteos solo ques almost all the time and every few days, sometimes 2-3 times a week, he just goes up against a 5/5 LCS team. This time it was TSM, theres been Fox and many many others. Everyone knows about how it happened with TL and C9 a few times already. The fact this is even possible is one thing, but to make matters worst, he lost 17 LP. Honestly, i think Riot's "2%" chance about solo players going against full premades is an absolute load crap. But regardless of this, this is something that HAS to be fixed. If solo que is going to be put off for this long, then dynamic que needs some fixes, now. This is not something that should happen, and Riot should be ashamed of themselves for letting it go on this long. Edit: For those of you who do not know who he is, Meteos is a former C9 jungler who is a very popular streamer on Twitch.

89 Comments

Rain NTFeb 20, 201648 votes

the problem is high elo doesnt have time to find other premades cause there isnt many that are up there in challenger

WadeWilson1337Feb 20, 201622 votes

that doesnt make this excusable

KitsuneTricksterFeb 20, 201650 votes

Yeah it does, otherwise he would not find a match ever

WadeWilson1337Feb 20, 20165 votes

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thats niceFeb 21, 20163 votes

I actually guarantee 100% he would say this... I watch streamers and they ALL hate the hour long que times... I saw Valkrin go against TSM, then CLG, then Immortals.... all back to back in a row. he didnt mind. He actually preferred it because he likes the harder competition. I really dont think Meteos cares either. It's not like they are in danger of dropping out of challenger and most of them like the hard competition.

WadeWilson1337Feb 21, 20162 votes

Go to Twitch and look at his broadcast from last night and find the game. He was playing Udyr. You can go hear exactly what he says, trust me, its nothing like what Valkrin says.

OneSmoothDudeFeb 21, 20161 votes

Oh, Meteos minded a great deal. He perceives it as unfair and bullshit, compared to Valkrin who saw it as a challenge. Perspective is important.

ChaoticPineconeFeb 20, 20163 votes

I wonder - does Meteos care? We should ask if he thinks its such a big deal and if he is willing to wait 30-45 minute queue times to not queue with 5v5s.

and the 2% can be true. You have to remember, there are 10,5 million ranked players, but only 6,000 in Master/Challenger. So in Challenger it can happen every game, but if it doesnt happen anytime else, then the 2% can be an accurate statistic.

WadeWilson1337Feb 20, 20161 votes

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Templar2k7Feb 20, 20162 votes

You know a when C9 first formed they were almost undefeated in the LCS, and then when they were about to lose a game I think 2 of them just quit out of it ON the tournament stream. So just from me watching them it seems they if something doesn't their way they seems to not care about anything else

ChaoticPineconeFeb 20, 20163 votes

So he gives up before even playing it out? Then how do you know if you can win? Its lower chances, sure, but many factors can lead to your lower chance in winning. And you have to wonder if this is just a statement in the heat of the moment or if it was thought out.

High Elo players are already making smurfs because of delayed queue times. It seems to me that they have two conflicting interests, both which cant be resolved without opening "challenger" to a lot more accounts.

WadeWilson1337Feb 21, 20162 votes

Uh...do you honestly, even in some other parallel dimension, believe that a group of 5, granted challenger, solo que players can defeat an LCS team, on voice comms, on their main roles, while there is solo quers on off roles. An LCS team that is 2nd place in the entire region at the time of this post, and has played together probably hundreds of times over the last couple months? Its not unlikely the solo quers will lose, it is simply implausible that they would win. This is also the same game people forfeit at 20 minutes for being 10 kills behind.

ChaoticPineconeFeb 21, 20162 votes

So you throw in the towel before you try? Its a self fulfilling prophecy - "Oh, they are a 5 man queue? OK - they have better teamwork, and we will lose, so we wont even try". Of course youll have a horrible record agasint 5 mans if you open up mid at the sight of them.

And if you have a solution to both keep the current queue times (or if its a particularly amazing idea, even lower them!) while taking away the possibility of solo queuers to run into 5 mans, I think we would all like to hear it.

WadeWilson1337Feb 21, 20162 votes

How are you not getting this...TSM. is. an. LCS. team. A group of people who do this for a living. People who play on a professional level. People who have faced world championship teams. People who have played solo que for so long even some challenger players couldnt touch their experience. Its not fair in any stretch of the imagination. There is no arguing that, you are at a severe disadvantage. Even on an individual level, they will win. Once you put in group coordination and plays, they will slaughter. I dont know a single person who invites the idea of 5 man ques being paired against whoever if it means faster que times. In fact, IT WAS PROBABLY THE BIGGEST GRIPE WHEN DYNAMIC QUE CAME OUT. Riot had to instantly fix it to throw out that 2% statistic to calm people down, yet it still happens from time to time. No one wants 5vsolo players. And if they do, they are in a very small minority.

ChaoticPineconeFeb 21, 20162 votes

Do you know what a self-fulfilling prophecy is? Its giving up before you try, because you think you cant.

On an individual level, its not a guaranteed win. I dont even know whyd you would think that - its just ignorant. Even as a TEAM they have lost games. This season. in the NA LCS. Some pretty horribly. Lets not even talk about international competition. And all pro players have losses. If they have losses, its possible to win agasint them - its not like they go 10-0 in lane with no help agasint other Challenger players. If they are, then they deserve the win, dont you think?

And though it might be the biggest gripe WHEN DYNAMIC QUEUE CAME OUT, what has been the biggest gripe of the high-elo players for the past 5 seasons? Its the long queue times. Long enough so high-tier players switch to a plat smurf so they can actually play a game, which screws with people in Plat who are legitimately trying to improve at their level.

Again, if you have a solution to keep or lower the queue times and eliminate solos versus 5's, please, let us know. We will all appreciate a solution. If not, youre attempt to eliminate problems is just creating other problems.

OneSmoothDudeFeb 21, 20161 votes

I agree with the idea of trying in a game, no matter what...in the beginning of a match.

But I saw the game against TSM, and after a certain point (less than 12 minutes in), it was just clear. TSM rotated almost perfectly, took every advantage, denied farm, caught people out, and just plain eliminated options. I'm an optimistic guy...but man, at that point it was just over.

People always say that it's always worth playing a game out in solo queue because people throw, etc. But this wasn't solo queue. It's Dynamic Queue.

Meteos said something to the effect of: the lowest Worlds-level teams would demolish the highest-level LCS teams. The lowest-level LCS teams would destroy the highest-level Challenger teams. And the lowest-level Challenger teams would obliterate the highest-level solo queue teams. This is a Worlds-level team with voice chat, against 5 solo queue players. :/

There is no perfect solution to this. If there were, you'd be foolish to think that some guy named WadeWilson1337 would think it up before the entirety of Riot.

The best that can be done is just for Riot to implement a true Solo Queue, which they are doing. Once that hits, this issue will never happen unless the solo players let it. The queue times will be enormous for LCS teams, and that's unfortunate for them, but it's for the greater good. Once teams get to that level it will probably be in their best interest to organize scrims outside the ranked ladder.

Penta PenguinFeb 21, 20163 votes

Well then your friend Meteos is a toxic shitter and is probably not on a team anymore for a good reason.

WadeWilson1337Feb 21, 20161 votes

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Penta PenguinFeb 21, 20164 votes

hey friend "open mid" is toxicity, no excuses.

WadeWilson1337Feb 21, 20161 votes

didnt know surrendering before the 20 minute mark makes you toxic. By the same logic, surrendering at all makes you toxic, which is downright idiotic to think about it.

ValyrianBladeFeb 20, 20163 votes

So the reasonable solution would be to make high-elo either go entirely in to ranked teams, or to only have old solo queue. Not to let a solo queue team play against a premade 5, and then lose 17 points when these guys only gain like 3-8LP for wins most of the time (I think..?)

Why is a 5-man team going in to dynamic queue instead of ranked teams? Huh?

And why should the majority of players, solo queue players, need to play against premade 5s, especially at that elo?

My Waifu VanillaFeb 21, 20162 votes

Because ranked teams isn't a thing anymore??

43161549_DELFeb 21, 20161 votes

yeah with the removal of ranked teams....thats kinda impossible

AwesomeChadFeb 20, 201615 votes

he doesn't have a choice.......how many players do you think plays at his elo/mmr? The system will try to find you players with similar mmr values. He really doesn't have a choice because its either the system matches him against premade of similar mmrs or they find players of a much lower mmr (which is unlikely).

WadeWilson1337Feb 20, 20169 votes

You think thats an excuse to pair 5 solo que players against a premade? Under no circumstance is that fair. Your chances of winning that game are abyssmal to begin with, but you wont beat an LCS team with a group of solo que players, it just wont happen. If nothing else, make the mmr loss like..1 or 2. But the system should in some way shape or form say "Hey, we gotta pair em against someone, we just will make sure you lose 2 lp at the most." those games are almost always open mids by the 8 minute mark because there is just no reason, and high elo players know it.

JQKAndreiFeb 20, 20165 votes

Dyamic just doesn't fit high elo and Riot said it. They'll release solo que. They are already working on stuff so complaining is pointless.

XonraFeb 21, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Dyamic just doesn't fit high elo and Riot said it. They'll release solo que. They are already working on stuff so complaining is pointless.

There is a problem NOW. Riot created a problem knowing it was a problem without a solution in sight (saying eventually doesn't cut it). Just because they said there would be a solution eventually (they said 2 weeks for solo queue but that has come and gone) but there is a problem still.

There is plenty of reason to complain because Riot admits there is an issue, but hasn't fixed it, and leaving it to stagnate and frustrate people, especially their higher elo players.

63536895_DELFeb 20, 20162 votes

It never seemed to have a problem making high elo matches for soloQ before the champion select update.

atomicwitFeb 20, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Death LoL,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6uvhvmBN,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-02-20T14:13:51.519+0000)

It never seemed to have a problem making high elo matches for soloQ before the champion select update.

That's because you could only at max duo queue before. Thus, instead of getting shit on by the full TSM roster, it could take half of the players and put them on each team. Since the system tried to get similar queue configurations, it makes que times far longer than would be for solo que.

Serika ZeroFeb 20, 201612 votes

Tbh, I don't feel like playing ranked until they fix their shitty queue system to at most 3 premades. They also promised a "soloq" in January, I think it will be released "soon tm", that means by 2021

TonsOfGainsFeb 20, 20163 votes

If you weren't aware, you get queued with matching numbers.

If there is a premade of 2 on one team, there will be a premade of 2 on the other. If there is a premade of 4 on one team, there will be 4 on the other. This is true for all cases, except at higher elos where a compromise is made to have acceptable queue times.

Serika ZeroFeb 20, 20164 votes

if you weren't aware, this game is compromised of teams with 5 members each so, if 4 dudes go premade, who do you think will become their "fifth" member? The duo queues? The trio team? The other 4 man premades? The 5 awesome full premade? No no, its me. The solo player.

And I don't want that, thx. Its bad enough with 3 premades that make calls on voice chat and expect you to magically follow them. Usually I'm left with WTF???

Cenobite AzazielFeb 20, 201610 votes

"but but but it is hard to find a 4/1 comp because of high elo!"

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/C-zCzM5qPec/maxresdefault.jpg

Sure thing. Riot created a problem with dynamic queue. Unfair games. Games with 4/1 Vs 5 or even worse situations.

Bring back the old queue. The solo queue. Hell, remove duo queue.

AbyssphereFeb 20, 20166 votes

" i think Riot's "2%" chance about solo players going against full premades is an absolute load crap"

Yeah because players in Meteos's ELO is totally relatable to the game in general. Just because players in the highest ELOs get unfair matchmaking more often than is ideal doesn't mean the rest of us do. Get a grip.

Mysticman89Feb 20, 20165 votes

I'm unfamiliar with what sort of LP gains/losses challenger players typically deal in.

WadeWilson1337Feb 20, 20168 votes

its the same as usual elos, however 17 is a pretty sizable game considering youre in a game you just wont win. Also TSM were all playing their main roles

DrCyanideFeb 20, 20164 votes

#ChallengerRankProblems

Lets combine all Challenger, Master, and Diamond 1, shall we? That's 0.21% of the community (numbers from http://na.op.gg/statistics/tier/). For reference, Dominion had 0.5% of people playing, these upper tiers don't come close to that.

Rito, close down Diamond 1 and up, there's not enough people play that game mode to make it worth balancing for and maintaining. /s

As part of the other 99.79% of the community, the system works fine. There are enough people playing to not be in a 5v1+1+1+1+1 situation, 5v3+1+1 being the worst most of us will ever see, and even then only rarely.

WadeWilson1337Feb 20, 20161 votes

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DrCyanideFeb 20, 20164 votes

{quoted}

What incentive is there to get high elo?

The same incentives there have always been - harder opponents, a feeling of self worth, and a shiny border at the end of the season. There's never been anything more or less than that. Stop at Gold if you want a skin.

This is a MASSIVE flaw and needs to be dealt with in some way shape or form.

OK, so let's assume for a second that Solo Queue exists. Riot's already mentioned that it will use a different rank than Dynamic Queue, so everyone does placements all over again, LCS players climb to Challenger again, etc. They only go to Dynamic Queue of they want to play with someone else. But this 0.21% of the community is being split really small with this two Queue system, with anyone who doesn't want to go against full LCS teams going Solo. So the queue times are even longer than they are now, 4 man teams never find a 5th man, and you get 2 man premades + 3 man premades going against 5 man LCS premades.

So what do you do? Tell Challenger players they've got an hour long wait for an unbalanced game if they want to play with anyone else? Keep the current system and tell them that they might have an unbalanced game every once in a while? What's the solution when your player base is that small?

Honestly, the solution Riot will come up with will likely be unfair to Challenger players one way or another. That's what happens when you climb that high.

DedriusFeb 20, 20163 votes

I think he would rather play some 5 man premades rather than have 3 hour queue times waiting to find another 5 man solo

WadeWilson1337Feb 20, 20163 votes

You are actually completely wrong. 100%. Everytime this happens he says "What is the point?" "No one gains anything from this game." "This isnt even fun, i am garunteed to lose." "These professional players on their main roles and we have 2 people on off roles, how in the fuck are they expected to win this?". And Meteos doesnt get 3 hour que times, though they do exist in high elo. His are mostly in the 15-30 range. He also asks team to open mid each time because its a waste of his and the other players on his teams time.

warpenguin555Feb 20, 20163 votes

all i can say here is lol wtf.

JasiwelFeb 20, 20162 votes

I wonder if Riot is delaying Ranked SoloQ purely for this reason. Because Dynamic Queue is allows Solo Play with the potential for more premades, they might see SoloQ has greatly harming Queue times for high ELO players. Their statistics might be yielding that there aren't enough Diamond/Masters/Challenger solo players to satisfy decent Queue times for SoloQ yet.

Penta PenguinFeb 21, 20162 votes

Okay I'm sick of everyone going "But look at Challenger!" and applying that to the rest of the game.

Challenger is a waste-land of only the best players in the country queueing up. Watching QTPie the other day, he had hour long queues and only played 3 games in one day. So those are literally the only people who are in queue wanting to play League. Or do you want to watch NOTHING as your stupid complaints force Meteos to wait 5 hours for a "fair" match?

For the rest of us the 2% statistic applies, as the pool of players increases exponentially below Challenger.

I'm afraid 'fixing' Challenger queue is not something that will happen, it doesn't matter if it's excusable or not, how are you goign to fix there not being enough people playing?

XonraFeb 21, 20162 votes

The joys of Riot allowing any more than 3 people to queue on top of removing ranked team queues with no replacement.

I'm completely lost on how ranked teams are supposed to climb the ladder now and get into the CS tournament in the future if they aren't already an "established" challenger team.

The Bearded BardFeb 21, 20161 votes

Why do you care? It's not happening nor will it ever happen to you.

WadeWilson1337Feb 21, 20162 votes

Because i refuse to play dynamic que when bullshit like this happens all the time, the 4 man premade nightmare would happen to me eventually and i just dont want to deal with that. I want my fucking solo que and im tired of Riot adding it to their "Soon" list. This system is garbage with its role distribution, forcing you to lock in, the premade vs premade waste of time games, and then shit like this shows how incompetent these people are.