We really need to increase base resistances

Nhifu·Jul 13, 2018·100 votes·17,434 views

Ever wonder why Wukong / Quinn back in the day weren't so strong.. but now they literally 3 shot you? We don't have our base armor seals anymore. Mundo cleavers doing an insane amount of damage? No MR glyphs. Karthus suddenly became meta again? Really wish you had those glyphs now when Karthus has Why is Garen so strong right now? 40 armor and mr bonus on top of no enemy players have base Armor or MR for his ult either.

Please raise base resistances

109 Comments

YuGiHoJul 13, 201818 votes

Meanwhile talon has 39mr at lv 1

ktjnkkJul 13, 201817 votes

+9 armor +12 mr for rioters who already forgot how much they actually gave since ''being good at the game and balancing the game is 2 different skills and you don't have to play the game to know what's right and what's not''

NhifuJul 13, 20182 votes

Over-buffing the resistances would make a few tanks (unplayable now) actually SOMEWHAT viable.

BestPudgeNAJul 13, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Over-buffing the resistances would make a few tanks (unplayable now) actually SOMEWHAT viable.

Buffing resist actually makes tanks worse. See the thing is resistance have diminishing returns. So if you give everyone a free Cloth armor, ADC/mage ect types end up getting like 5% damage reduction, Bruiser/fighter types get like 2.5% more and tanks end up getting like 1% more.

RouwhorstJul 14, 20182 votes

Resistance has no diminishing returns. Don't think that less an increase in % means diminishing returns. Take it to the extreme: 1%? nothing right? well add 1% to 99% and you will be completely immune to physical damage. Every 1 armor adds 1% effective health

If this isn't enough to convince you then read another post I made or read the wiki.

But you are somewhat right, buffing the base values of all champions tankyness (health & res) lowers the contribution of resistances or health of other sources. Again take it to the extreme, if base resistances and health were very influential and items almost not, then buying defensive items isn't really worth it as you only increase your survivability a little. On the flip side are all other champions almost equal tanky and picking a meat shield simply is not worth it as you don't bring anything unique (everybody is as tanky as you).

Keep in mind that only increasing base resistances increases the value of health, which work together to create tankyness. Adding global resists has to be done careful so not the lower the viability of resistance items too much.

BestPudgeNAJul 14, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Resistance has no diminishing returns. Don't thing that less an increase in % means diminishing returns.

Yes, it does it's. You get less DR% per armor you get. For example getting 50 armor and going 10-60 armor takes you from 9% to 38% damage reduction or 29% damage reduction from 50 armor. Now if you have 210 armor and you gain 50 armor going to 260, you go from 68% to 72% damage reduction or 4% from 50 armor.

29% for 50 armor 4% for 50 armor That's called diminishing returns bud please learn how the game works before calling me out.

RouwhorstJul 14, 20182 votes

The calculation for the damage multiplier from armor (above 0 armor) is: 100/(100+armor) So 10 armor has a damage multiplier of 100/110 = ~0.909

Let's calculate the physical damage needed to bring down a 1000 health unit. If the unit has 10 armor he would only take 0.909 (90.9%) of the damage. The damage needed would be: 1000/~0.909 = 1100 60 armor: 1600 health; 210 armor: 3100 health; 260 armor: 3600 health. As you can see the required damage increase from both applications of +50 armor is equal.

The percentages might look like they have diminishing returns but they don't. The effect of damage reduction becomes much greater the higher percentage it is. An increase in 25 percentage points reduction is not that big of a deal if you go from 0% to 25%, but an increase from 75% to 100% is. 0% to 25% means you can take 1/3th (33%) more damage (as 1/0.75 = 1.333). 75% means 3 times more damage (1/0.25 = 4) and 100% means immunity (1/0 = )

BestPudgeNAJul 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

The calculation for the damage multiplier from armor (above 0 armor) is: 100/(100+armor) So 10 armor has a damage multiplier of 100/110 = ~0.909

Let's calculate the physical damage needed to bring down a 1000 health unit. If the unit has 10 armor he would only take 0.909 (90.9%) of the damage. The damage needed would be: 1000/~0.909 = 1100 60 armor: 1600 health; 210 armor: 3100 health; 260 armor: 3600 health. As you can see the required damage increase from both applications of +50 armor is equal.

Now lets say the opposing player does 100 dps. It would take 11 seconds to do 1100, 16 for 16 ect.

11 seconds vs 16 seconds = 1.45 longer to kill for having 50 armor 31 seconds vs 36 seconds = 1.16 longer to kill for having 50 armor

No really armor has diminishing returns

RouwhorstJul 14, 20181 votes

Same can be said of increasing health

BestPudgeNAJul 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Same can be said of increasing health

Yes and what does that have to do with what i'm saying?

RouwhorstJul 14, 20181 votes

It means that all stats have diminishing returns according to you. If that is the case it's pointless to point it out, especially for resistances only. It's obvious that any value that is increased multiple times by the same amount has every consecutive application of said value a lower percentage contribution to the total sum.

And even more so, if this was what you were getting at then you should have talked about that from the start, not all that stuff about resistances and damage reduction.

BestPudgeNAJul 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

It means that all stats have diminishing returns according to you. If that is the case it's pointless to point it out, especially for resistances only.

No it isn't. The person i was talking to was stating that raising base resistance was good for people with high base resistances. When in fact because stats have diminishing returns it's actually the opposite. Increase base resistance is bad for those with already high base resistance and really good for those that have low ones.

remakoroJul 13, 20185 votes

another proof of superiority of the old system. I had 27 scaling MR on every champion + some from masteries. On some champions i took 20+ flat armor and some more scaling armor. For Taric for example.

But who the fuck cares. Rito does not believe that people have enough brain capacity to choose shit for themselves. (remember removal of boots enchantments)

StillHittinLicksJul 13, 20187 votes

yoooooo bro i actually forgot about boot enchantments... that goes way back for real..

1cec0ldJul 14, 20184 votes

My roommate is new to the game. I almost told him to buy Alacrity Boots. Then remembered that's not a thing anymore.

LeetriJul 14, 20181 votes

They removed boot enchantments because there was no real choice to be made, everyone bought Homeguards and sometimes maybe Alacrity. They just added Homeguards as a mechanic instead since that's basically all people bought.

remakoroJul 14, 20181 votes

Funny cuz i bought homeguards almost NEVER. I always went with captain or Alacrity. And rarely with that thing for 12% movespeed when you hit enemy.

Bronze7MainJul 13, 201812 votes

3 shot? ok early game it could be right but otherwise 1-2 is enough ^^

KelgJul 13, 201812 votes

Meanwhile a walking suit of armor Mordekaiser has 25 base armor vs naked lady Janna at 28. [sg-lux-2]

Spicy RiceJul 13, 20187 votes

Why do you think he cover's up himself with all that armor? It represents his emotional fragility, and is shown in his base stats

IamgeyerJul 14, 20184 votes

Wouldn't that affect magic resistance, not armor?

Nea104Jul 13, 20185 votes

Damage is out of control.

Better take a look at it, eventually (remember, November 2017, everyone noticed that back there? and still...).

Violet FieldsJul 13, 20185 votes

Yeah, Mordekaiser having 7 less base armor than a Zed is kind of ridiculous.

LeetriJul 14, 20181 votes

That's cause of Mordekaiser's passive.

D4M2X0Jul 13, 20184 votes

i still laugh at how they gave vlad scaling HP but gave fiddle +9 armor during preseason loL

vlad already has 4k HP and fiddle could survive the jungle even with 3 armor

RainXBladeJul 13, 20184 votes

There was always a golden rule in any MOBA where building HP alone does not help you survive damage if you didn't stack resistances alongside it. I'm still wondering up to this day as to why Riot decided to make armor and magic resist virtually worthless when the game actually needed it to counter the high damage everyone has.

Seer of MindJul 14, 20182 votes

Oh they built a bunch of armor? item 3147 item 3142 item 3814 Oh they have 5k health? item 3153 Oh they have a good amount of health and armor? item 3087 item 3094 item 3031 See no problem here at all!

NhifuJul 14, 20182 votes

Also with too much access to armor penetration and magic penetration.

VelasanJul 13, 20184 votes

Well, originally they had runes for it: Iron skin & Mirror Shell.

Then they said something about them not being unique enough and we have Chrysalis and Bone Plating. While the new runes are better at mitigating all types of damage they didn't give any runes that give armor before 10 minutes waiting on conditioning.

So... maybe everyone needs to take conditioning? Like... on every page.

Zone of EndlessJul 13, 20184 votes

They'll increase base resistances for one patch then on the next patch they'll raise the base damage too :^)

Fízz v2Jul 13, 20183 votes

start with Fizz 22 base armor pls ty item 3070

NyarlathοtepJul 13, 201826 votes

He is an assassin. He has to be squishy. Also he has his e and his passive to help mitigate damage.

Fízz v2Jul 13, 20187 votes

But why does Zed and pretty much all other assassins have like 10 more base armor than him? :[

wildfox99Jul 13, 20182 votes

because they don't have a passive that reduce the damage from autoattacks

Baron of BreadJul 13, 201816 votes

Because Fizz has a passive that reduces damage from auto attacks.

Fízz v2Jul 13, 20184 votes

Thats so useless tho. Doesnt help vs spells, vs Electrocute, even vs Yasuo Qs that go through minions and Duskblade.

AmazoXJul 13, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fízz v2,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6rVsWl8a,comment-id=00020000000000020000,timestamp=2018-07-13T16:19:55.440+0000)

Thats so useless tho. Doesnt help vs spells, vs Electrocute, even vs Yasuo Qs that go through minions and Duskblade.

Has invulnerability as a basic ability that works as a dash & does damage & maybe because when combined with his passive, he'd make a lot players uninstall the game.

Praetor NotoriasJul 13, 20183 votes

They buffed resistances to make up for that at the beginning of the season. I don't remember what the values were exactly, but everyone does in effect have those runes still.

remakoroJul 13, 20184 votes

You kiddin me? What do you mean "they BUFFED"? I had at least 30 scaling MR from runes + masteries on EVERY champion i played. "Buffs" They gave mean absolutely nothing.

Gramps69Jul 13, 20183 votes

I used to run scaling MR Glyphs on almost all rune pages (+27 at level 18), or flat MRs, (+12 I believe), plus the armor seals for +9 Armor. Now champs like Orianna have a base of 17 armor or something ridiculous

heroikcJul 13, 20183 votes

If you ask me, their might be no real point to increasing resistances against two champs.

Don't get me wrong; I understand they are annoying and bursty, but how will buffing base resistances help? Riot can't go overboard and there are some subjects that aren't worth giving additional resistances too. Assassins are too annoying to give free durability to, and most fighters have innate defenses anyway. Tanks already have a bad rep because of durability and it would pain me to see them nerfed later on because of it. Maybe marksmen and mages, but I don't think it would matter.

Alternatively, it might be better to nerf a few items that grant Kong and Quinn such burst, like item 3147 and item 3095 , but that's just hearsay from me.

Seer of MindJul 14, 20181 votes

Tbh, item 3143 needs a buff or a rework right now, even though its passive is great, too much damage is making the item useless.

NhifuJul 15, 20181 votes

There's no benefit of combining the item.

Would be better to see more health from combining the item (Kind of like how Frozen Mallet or Warmogs give 700 800 health respectively)

But the health bonus from combination pales in comparison to damage items that are combined.

item 3147 200 bonus damage from combining item 3078 450 damage auto attacks

NhifuJul 14, 20181 votes

Did you really only read the first sentence of the post?

The current meta is based solely on high damage, because champions that are overbearing previously were negated by good runes. Now they are overbearing and toxic to play against, with literally no counter-play.

You will see plenty of games where players abuse this.

Heimer top and Quinn top are also one of the most cancerous picks in the game right now, they literally shut down EVERY SINGLE MELEE CHAMP IN THE GAME.

Ever ran into Malzahar Zyra Morgana Lux Brand duo bot? They can literally 2v5 your team if they position correctly.

heroikcJul 14, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Did you really only read the first sentence of the post?

The current meta is based solely on high damage, because champions that are overbearing previously were negated by good runes. Now they are overbearing and toxic to play against, with literally no counter-play.

You will see plenty of games where players abuse this.

Heimer top and Quinn top are also one of the most cancerous picks in the game right now, they literally shut down EVERY SINGLE MELEE CHAMP IN THE GAME.

Ever ran into Malzahar Zyra Morgana Lux Brand duo bot? They can literally 2v5 your team if they position correctly.

Eeyeah, did you forget some of the most dangerous damage dealers right have access to true damage? Either Conqueror or Stormrazor+IE?

It's not like the meta has changed and either forced or allowed people to become "creative".

NhifuJul 15, 20181 votes

Conqueror is only used from 5 of the 20 top 20 champions in the top lane. source; Hashinshin

Miss fortune and Kai'sa two of the best ADC's right now, do not use Stormrazor + IE

Honestly you only see this in lower elo's where people run 5 electrocutes lmao

RealDsyJul 13, 20183 votes

You mean grabbing item 3020 + item 3916 op since they give you 33 magic pen for 2600 gold? I tell you item 1057 gives you 40 magic resist for 720 gold...

If these clueless posts are uprated i can have a feeling why riot just dont care about posts. I mean its not personal, but i see lot of posts crying something OP when these items actually easily counterable. Its just you lack of game mechanics which is fine. Everyone was beginner once. We just passed the time when everyone start post even without knowledge of the game and people upvote each other. Which is leads to riot wont care about community for a good reason.

Stróc DúnmharúJul 13, 20183 votes

As an alternative to raising everyone's base resistances, what if we just lower the damage of the runes?

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

AmazoXJul 13, 20182 votes

I think WuKong, Quinn & Quinn are strong because their burst pattern has no breathing for counterplay.