camille is just a mobile juggernaut, change my mind

Critmaster Garen·Oct 9, 2018·47 votes·14,374 views

1.) her shield scales with 20% max health. high health scalings on fighters are juggernaut scalings

2.) her base ad is decently high to make her synergize with together with the second proc of her q which converts up to 80% of all the damage it deals (including on hits) to true damage, she gains massive value just off her base ad together with sheen. a juggernaut trait.

3.) her ult grants her % max health damage on auto attacks. even more base damage without building offense

her item builds usually boil down to a into a buch of jugger items like into defense (or )

nerf her base health
make her shield scale with bonus ad instead of health
remove the shield procs from auto attacks, but give it to her on her second q, outer w, e stun, and r activation

this means if she fucks up and basically misses all of her abilities, she most certainly loses the fight due to low base health. if she hits all of her shit, shes rewarded with refreshing shields.

the bonus ad scaling on her passive incentivizes her to go for squishier and aggressive builds instead of stacking a bunch of health off jugger items and relying on her base damage

she has one of the longest engage ranges in the game for a fighter, and for some reason shes geared to build as tanky as juggers and rely on similar high base damage. why is this a thing?

if shes gonna be as mobile as a diver or skirmisher, give her actual skirmisher scalings and situational defense. might make the champion reasonable for a change.

83 Comments

Done25Oct 9, 201849 votes

A "mobile Juggernaut" has a name. It's called a Diver. Irelia, Warwick, Xin Xaoi, Nocturne, Vi, etc.

Critmaster GarenOct 9, 20186 votes

{quoted}

A "mobile Juggernaut" has a name. It's called a Diver. Irelia, Warwick, Xin Xaoi, Nocturne, Vi, etc.

divers are still supposed to be a bit squishier and less powerful in head on fights than juggers. they usually have team engage (irelia, xin, wukong) and/or high pick potential in return (warwick, noc, vi).

for a lot of them this is true, but some of them are a bit tankier than they should be while dealing similar levels of damage as a jugger. what is ever the point of a juggernaut when you can just pick a mobile version of it with team engage?

the only way divers should win against juggers is by outplaying them. but camille doesnt need to do that in a lot of cases. she just wins head on fights off her base damage/defenses and her shield.

changing her passive and its scaling to incentivise higher risk/reward in item builds and play could fix the champions overloaded design imo.

Hexs FortuneOct 9, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6h7M6EuA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-10-09T20:14:34.536+0000)

divers are still supposed to be a bit squishier and less powerful in head on fights than juggers. they usually have team engage (irelia, xin, wukong) and/or high pick potential in return (warwick, noc, vi).

for a lot of them this is true, but some of them are a bit tankier than they should be while dealing similar levels of damage as a jugger. what is ever the point of a juggernaut when you can just pick a mobile version of it with team engage?

the only way divers should win against juggers is by outplaying them. but camille doesnt need to do that in a lot of cases. she just wins head on fights off her base damage/defenses and her shield.

changing her passive and its scaling to incentivise higher risk/reward in item builds and play could fix the champions overloaded design imo.

It's pretty annoying how some champs get to have their cake and eat it.

gabetheguyOct 10, 20186 votes

cam isn't nearly as tanky as other juggernauts get and you know it.

Automated RivenOct 10, 20183 votes

Camille is like vi 2.0 whom are both divers. Also vi has a shield which scales on percent max HP only it blocks all damage rather then a specific type so it gives up value to be more all purpose. Also you can literally out both kits next to each other and find the same shit.

Vi q is a dash with cc at the end. Same with Camille e.

Vi w does percent max HP damage, same with Camille w. Vi also gets attack speed buff on w whereas Camille gets it on e.

Vi e gives an aa reset with bonus damage. Camille has that on her q. Both have two charges. It's just that Camille gets true damage.

Camille has single target fuck you on ulti that knocks enemies back. Guess what, so does vi. If one is a dive then so is the other. It's just that Camille also has a heal on her w and true damage to make her a bit more stupid then vi.

However, vi is way stronger early game then Camille and vice versa.

PB4UAMEOct 9, 20188 votes

Except, compare Cam to those. She's a fucking juggernaut, with the mobility and easy of target access of an assassin or diver. The one blancing lever that allows Juugernauts to be as strong as they are and to be able to have most of their damage level scaling, and heavily based off of base stats and base damage, is that they are the most unreliable class in the game, with the least mobility, and the least access to priority targets.

She gets all the bonuses of being a juggernaut with all the bonuses of being a diver, while not paying the cost for either, and having a completely busted and overloaded kit with 2 forms of % HP damage and the largest true damage nuke in the game (except Garen ulting a villain) as her bread and butter damage/trade skill. She has a juggernauts cake, a divers cake, and is eating them both at the same time.

Z3SleeperOct 10, 201818 votes

A "mobile Fighter" is called a Diver.

A "mobile Juggernaut" is called a over-tuned Diver.

Critmaster GarenOct 10, 20182 votes

{quoted}

A "mobile Fighter" is called a Diver.

A "mobile Juggernaut" is called a over-tuned Diver.

so is a tank juggernaut for that matter

but Chogath is a different beast. i just hate how they added the % damage to his e instead of making his cc more reliable and making him a better tank.

NemeBroOct 10, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6h7M6EuA,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2018-10-10T01:50:39.731+0000)

so is a tank juggernaut for that matter

but is a different beast. i just hate how they added the % damage to his e instead of making his cc more reliable and making him a better tank.

No one who plays Cho plays him to be a shitty CC tank.

Cho should be a juggernaut.

Irelia BotOct 10, 20183 votes

I just want him to lose stacks again on death.

Critmaster GarenOct 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6h7M6EuA,comment-id=00010002000000000001,timestamp=2018-10-10T01:56:07.981+0000)

I just want him to lose stacks again on death.

that made him too feast or famine.

honestly just removing the % damage from his e would make him a balanced tank, if the rest of his kit is adjusted around it.

otherwise hed have to lose the kockup on his q and have his w reshaped, and that would change his identity. changing iconic abilities like that never goes over well.

NemeBroOct 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6h7M6EuA,comment-id=000100020000000000010000,timestamp=2018-10-10T01:57:44.110+0000)

that made him too feast or famine.

honestly just removing the % damage from his e would make him a balanced tank, if the rest of his kit is adjusted around it.

otherwise hed have to lose the kockup on his q and have his w reshaped, and that would change his identity.

His identity isn't based around his stomp or his silence. It is based around eating other champions whole and getting fucking huge and tanky off of it.

He can't be a good pure tank with an ult like that without being overbearing. If he has the reliable CC and peel of a real tank then the fact that he can take off half the health of the assassin coming to kill your carry is going to always be overbearing.

Cho is the late game AP Juggernaut we deserve.

Critmaster GarenOct 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

His identity isn't based around his stomp or his silence. It is based around eating other champions whole and getting fucking huge and tanky off of it.

He can't be a good pure tank with an ult like that without being overbearing. If he has the reliable CC and peel of a real tank then the fact that he can take off half the health of the assassin coming to kill your carry is going to always be overbearing.

Cho is the late game AP Juggernaut we deserve.

even with his ult, cho always used to be a tank. riot stated, that sometimes champion ultimates can break the rules of their class.

like how Olaf ult makes him pretty much unkitable for 8 seconds despite being a juggernaut, or how Shyvana counts as a juggernaut with a gapcloser on her ult.

but it was the addition of the scaling % damage on his e that turned cho into a tank juggernaut. just having this much damage on a short cooldown base ability, in addition to the aoe cc on the rest of his kit.

Jerry SeinfeIdOct 10, 20181 votes

do you want garen to be a tank? People have said he's a tank before ya know.

Cho should always be an ap offtank, which is pretty much an ap juggernaut in current classes. I used to play cho bunch and i never went full tank, never went full ap either tho. that was season 5 or 6 tho.

I honestly hate the fact that they gave him hp scaling on his ult. it makes buiding ap less attractive which makes cho less fun.

Weren't juggs supposed to feel like dungeon bosses? well if cho ain't the definition of a dungeon boss, idk who else is.

Critmaster GarenOct 10, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6h7M6EuA,comment-id=000100020000000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2018-10-10T18:37:22.982+0000)

do you want garen to be a tank?

no?

but cho always had the utlility and cc of a tank and thats why he was considered a tank. then they gave him the mini rework that added scaling % health damage to his e and turned him into a tank with juggernaut damage and scaling.

it would be the equivalent of adding aoe cc to garens kit. does that that sound like fair design?

as long as cho exists there isnt really a reason to ever pick garen for example, since he has the same melee power, while he has the aoe cc of a tank.

why would i pick one champion over another who has the same strengths and additional strengths of another class on top of it?

Jerry SeinfeIdOct 10, 20181 votes

afaik to most people cho has always been somwhat of ann ap tank, ap offtank, ap bruiser or however you may call it. Forcing him to become a tank would take away from his identity.

like poppy for example, full tank poppy isn't really that interesting. bruiser poppy is a shit ton of fun however.

if anything cho should be hybrid between a mage and a tank, which would pretty much make him an ap juggernaut.

NemeBroOct 10, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6h7M6EuA,comment-id=00010002000000000001,timestamp=2018-10-10T01:56:07.981+0000)

I just want him to lose stacks again on death.

So you want him to be poopy garbage?

Irelia BotOct 10, 20182 votes

Not all the stacks at once. But if he has 12 stacks losing 3 or 4 would make going into the enemy team solo more properly punishing.

RenownedWheat42Oct 10, 20184 votes

Why should he actually lose stacks on death, though? Look at other stacking champs.

DarukongSrOct 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

A "mobile Juggernaut" has a name. It's called a Diver. Irelia, Warwick, Xin Xaoi, Nocturne, Vi, etc.

Divers are not mobile juggers (although many are overtuned and a little OP). And if they are then that is a huge screeup from a design standpoint, as they need to have to trade something in their power budget for that mobility (which they often don't).

DragonSheaOct 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

A "mobile Juggernaut" has a name. It's called a Diver. Irelia, Warwick, Xin Xaoi, Nocturne, Vi, etc.

Even though, it should only be Aatrox Renekton (diver hybrid) Urgot Warwick (diver hybrid) Shyvana that should be considered mobile Juggs.

saltranOct 9, 20188 votes

she has one of the longest engage ranges in the game for a fighter, and for some reason shes geared to build as tanky as juggers and rely on similar high base damage. why is this a thing?

if shes gonna be as mobile as a diver or skirmisher, give her actual skirmisher scalings and situational defense. might make the champion reasonable for a change.

The thing is that your narrative doesn't match the reallity of a Camille that has been moved out of top to jng because she loses majority of the top matchups since she gives up too much 1vs1 power for her engage.

They had 2 options: nerf her engage and maker her a full toplaner, or nerf her 1vs1 and make her a jungle.

They did the lattter.

And right now she's balanced imo, not being a dominant pick on pro play and neither being a soloQ dominant champ, sure sometimes she seems unfair, I too play immobile champs and she can be a pain in the ass but I dont think that any data shows that she's op.

Critmaster GarenOct 9, 20186 votes

{quoted}

The thing is that your narrative doesn't match the reallity of a Camille that has been moved out of top to jng because she loses majority of the top matchups since she gives up too much 1vs1 power for her engage.

They had 2 options: nerf her engage and maker her a full toplaner, or nerf her 1vs1 and make her a jungle.

They did the lattter.

And right now she's balanced imo, not being a dominant pick on pro play and neither being a soloQ dominant champ, sure sometimes she seems unfair, I too play immobile champs and she can be a pain in the ass but I dont think that any data shows that she's op.

while she might not technically be overtuned, i still think some design elements in her kit are questionable and dont fit her class.

saltranOct 10, 20182 votes

Her kit is overtuned, I agree.

But they made it up by nerfing her numbers enough.

LTK KoRoOct 10, 20182 votes

As a Camille player: Amount of stuff in Camille kit shows how much melee fighters need to be reliable. Camille is for me the only AD bruiser who can do something in teamfights on her own, without being kited to death, or plain out bursted. Im glad Riot took the path of nerfing her numbers instead of removing "unnecessary" parts, because there are no unnecessary parts in Camille kit.

Elite4RunnerOct 9, 20186 votes

Her only escape ability is her engage ability.

The unique nature of her Q makes it fairly common for her to make plays into limited vision because she is springing through / over terrain that blocks vision.

If she engages into an unfavorable situation, she has no way of escaping.

Critmaster GarenOct 9, 201811 votes

{quoted}

Her only escape ability is her engage ability.

The unique nature of her Q makes it fairly common for her to make plays into limited vision because she is springing through / over terrain that blocks vision.

If she engages into an unfavorable situation, she has no way of escaping.

that doesnt make her less mobile and isnt an argument for her to have that high base damage and defenses.

plus, her rank 5 e is on a 6 to 8 second cooldown after cdr.

Elite4RunnerOct 9, 20182 votes

Sure it is. Utilizing her mobility is prone to put her in a bad situation. There is such a thing as being too mobile. Being able to get too far ahead of your team means it can be difficult for your team to follow her.

If she engages on an unfavorable situation, she needs to have the utility in her kit to survive the fight or she dies.

Critmaster GarenOct 9, 201813 votes

{quoted}

If she engages on an unfavorable situation

if she engages into an unfavourable situation, she made a mistake and needs to die or burn flash

i dont even... what? is this how you rationalize that champion?

youre literally saying she should have the tools to beat her opponent despite misusing her kit. she shouldnt survive that situation just like lee sin shouldnt survive a 1v5 q into the enemy team, much less turn that into a win just by virtue of her base stats being overtuned. thats just dumb and broken.

Elite4RunnerOct 9, 20183 votes

No, I'm saying that her mobility becomes a problem when it is not utilized properly.

Her kit is designed to prevent her from being burst immediately, .. which is important because as another person pointed out, she is a diver, but it isn't enough to make her survive indefinitely.

So if she isn't able to out trade her opponent, or opponents, ... or escape, which she is not able to do easily, .. she dies. .. as she is supposed to.

Critmaster GarenOct 9, 20185 votes

{quoted}

No, I'm saying that her mobility becomes a problem when it is not utilized properly.

Her kit is designed to prevent her from being burst immediately, .. which is important because as another person pointed out, she is a diver, but it isn't enough to make her survive indefinitely.

So if she isn't able to out trade her opponent, or opponents, she dies. .. as she is supposed to.

a change to a refreshing shield upon landing her abilities, and making it scale with bonus ad wouldnt change that.

it would just change how you play around the champion, and the impact of hitting/missing her abilities to get enough defense for the fight to survive it.

it would allow the champion to be strong and still fair.

NemeBroOct 10, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6h7M6EuA,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-10-09T19:15:45.637+0000)

1.) her shield scales with 20% max health. high health scalings on fighters are juggernaut scalings

J4 is another diver with max health scaling, as is Vi. Camille builds quite a bit of AD and tends to rush it early on. It's to keep her from being too tanky early game as she builds damage.

2.) her base ad is decently high to make her synergize with together with the second proc of her q which converts up to 80% of all the damage it deals (including on hits) to true damage, she gains massive value just off her base ad together with sheen. a juggernaut trait.

Her base AD at level 1 is very strong, but her AD as the game goes on, while still good, is far below that of most juggernauts. It is about equal with Jax's at level 18, a fellow Triforce-utilizing late game diver.

The implication that sheen is a juggernaut item is also extremely disingenuous. The item has traditionally been used by champions who fit under the diver subclass, which Camille does. It was this way way before juggernauts started making heavy use of it.

3.) her ult grants her % max health damage on auto attacks. even more base damage without building offense

Her ult grants her % current health damage first of all. It is also not unusual for non-Juggernaut bruisers to have percent health damage in their kits. Fiora, Kled, Aatrox, Rhaast Kayn, Vi, Warwick, J4, and Xin Zhao all have it in their kits as well.

It is also, frankly, such a minor component of her damage that it barely warrants mentioning. We are talking less than seven hundred magic damage in the average top lane game according to lolalytics.

her item builds usually boil down to a into a buch of jugger items like into defense (or )

The only jugger item she pretty much always builds is Sterak's. Most Camille players opt for Ravenous over Titanic, and it happens to have a higher win rate than Titanic as well.

And so? She's a diver. Divers build defense items. Jax builds even tankier than Camille does.

the bonus ad scaling on her passive incentivizes her to go for squishier and aggressive builds instead of stacking a bunch of health off jugger items and relying on her base damage

She doesn't do this though.

Not in solo queue anyway, not even among pros. Is this an LCS thing? I don't give a shit about how she's building in the LCS, and neither should you.

French CourtesanOct 10, 20185 votes

Not only she is somewhat in need of buffs right now https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/camille/euw/top/diamond

She also looses any fight the misses her E. Unless you managed to feed her in early game. And if you do, then in your position I would jump out of window or something.

And you literally want to gut her? What the fuck do you mean nerf base health? http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Camille http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Darius http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Irelia

Out of all three prominent picks, she has lowest base health, her early game is thrash already, sure lets fuck her up more. Her shield scales with 20% hp? God damn there sure isnt anyone with high health scalings Fiora FUCK wait how about defense FUCK. Wait its only 10%. Yeah, but its shield not adaptive shield.

Her base AD is too high? Again lowest out of all three. Damn your argument is rather dumb.

Her ult has % current hp damage equal to fuckin 8% current hp. God damn this item is so broken item 3153 I see it not at all. Seriously when was the last time you saw anyone build botrk and you thought to yourself, god damn those 8% are gona fuck me up.

item 3078 item 3053 item 3026 Are great items on any melee champion. The reason why she doesnt build anything else is that she really is fucking squishy without them. Seriously Go play her with 400 ad build. I wonder what are your results gona be.

If you think that Camille is right now after getting nerfed for months, seeing no play at all other than few anti tank uses, let me introduce you to Irelia Akali Graves Evelynn Ekko Draven Kaisa Kassadin Urgot and many more that just wont get nerfed because idiots like you complain about stuff that literally needs to be buffed.

Flower BòyOct 10, 20184 votes

1.She has the worst laning phase of any toplaner 2. q Deals alot of true dmg at later levels,and maxing it sucks because you need items for it to be effective 3.If she is set behind and cant 1 v 1 anyone she is pretty worthless,since her teamfights are also bad 4.she doesnt have a damaging ult like darius or riven,so fighting without items means you lose 5.even if you are fed and you miss e,you are going to die 6.champs like alistar or malzahar can shut her down entirely

She scales really good damage wise,but you are not someone very safe like gp or some mage,meaning that you can still die really easy if you missplay something

PopcornBunniOct 10, 20184 votes

I believe the term for that is "Diver."

Irelia Jax Kled Warwick Hecarim JarvanIV RekSai Riven XinZhao are also """mobile juggernauts"""

ankoanko19Oct 10, 20181 votes

All of these champs except for Heca and Vi are squshier than juggernauts.

PopcornBunniOct 10, 20187 votes

{quoted}

All of these champs except for Heca and Vi are squshier than juggernauts.

As is Camille. Actually Jax is tankier than juggernauts because of his BS ult.

ankoanko19Oct 10, 20181 votes

Oh yeah her shield makes her so squishy.

PopcornBunniOct 10, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Oh yeah her shield makes her so squishy.

Does nothing against true or mixed damage and offers no bonus resistances in her kit. Riven's (also free) shield is fucking better.

Critmaster GarenOct 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Does nothing against true or mixed damage and offers no bonus resistances in her kit. Riven's (also free) shield is fucking better.

i dont know a single champion that deals 100% true damage, so her shield is always going to absorb some form of damage from her opponent.

so yea, its not going to absorb a darius execute, but its still going to absorb a shitload of physical damage and prevents her from getting into execute range in the first place.

and it still absorbs one of the components of mixed damage.

so if someone deals 1000 mixed damage with a 50/50 split, camilles shield is still going to absorb 500 of that damage.

how exactly is that nothing?

a 20% max health shield is still a juggernaut ability and doesnt belong into a skirmisher or even diver kit. if it scaled with bonus ad to make her build just a bit squishier and had some other trigger mechanism to it than just "auto attack the enemy", that could be outplayed, it would be fine, but i think the way her scalings are set up to basically stack jugger items is kindof why that champion is so dumb and scales into a mobile juggernaut.

divers or skirmishers shouldnt just be mobile juggernauts. otherwise there is no point to actual juggernauts existing.

the advantage divers have is target access and or team engage. juggernauts should just be upfront more threatening in a head on fight in return, due to higher base damage and defense.

PopcornBunniOct 10, 20183 votes

The OP's presupposition is based on a false premise. None of the traits they listed are characteristics of Juggernauts. What makes Juggernauts ir more than just being tanky and doing damage.

A better way to look at is is comparing them to the adjacent classes and what they offer.

Divers, their fighting class brethren. Divers have engage tools, usually a single hard CC or short lasting CC combo, damage, and medium-high burst survivability while lacking disengage or sustained survivability. They are meant to be one of the classes that starts fights, and often have attacks to single out a high priority target, usually their ult -- Camille JarvanIV Warwick XinZhao and all exemplify every one of these traits.

Vanguards, or "engage tanks" Vanguards have engage tools, several hard CC and chain CC, typically lack damage without building offtank, and have high burst survivability and medium-low sustain survivabliity. They also lack hard disengage tools, but can sometimes use their cc to peel for the rest of their team in a pinch. They are the other class that initiates fights by using hard CC chains on priority targets for their team to follow up on. Amumu Gragas Leona Nautilus , and most other tanks in the game fall into this category.

Wardens are the protective tanks. Wardens usually lack engage tools, or have relatively very weak engage tools compared to vanguards. In compensation they get stronger CC, protective abilities, defense against both burst and sustained damage, and strong disengage tools. Poppy Shen Galio are the wardens with the strongest engages, all of which consist of a single situational dash. TahmKench Braum and Nunu are the others in this small category of champions.

Juggernauts are to Wardens as Divers are to Vanguards. Juggernauts lack engage tools, and usually have only a single CC tool. This tool is one that prevents an opponent from escaping, letting the juggernaut chase them down and beat on them. This is because Juggernauts have usually very high damage and survivability against all forms of damage. They prevent an escape from anyone that can get caught out by them or their team. Illaoi 's spirit pull, Darius 's pull, Volibear and Singed 's flips, Aatrox and Chogath 's knockups and slows, DrMundo and Olaf running targets down with axe throws.

So for each class, their team contributions are thus:

Vanguards: Engage Wardens: Prevent Engages Divers: Engage Juggernauts: Prevent Disengages.

Camille's ult is both an engage and anti disengage tool, but the same goes for the cc of many other divers. JarvanIV Hecarim Jax all also have hard cc attached to their engages and all of them have strong damage mitigation on par or better than a 20% health single damage type shield.

You're acting like I'm against the notion that Camille is overtuned or broken for stating that she has just as much in common with "juggernauts" as most other divers do.

Raid Boss MordeOct 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Juggernauts lack engage tools, and usually have only a single CC tool. This tool is one that prevents an opponent from escaping, letting the juggernaut chase them down and beat on them. This is because Juggernauts have usually very high damage and survivability against all forms of damage. They prevent an escape from anyone that can get caught out by them or their team. 's spirit pull, 's pull, and 's flips, and 's knockups and slows, and running targets down with axe throws.

And then there's Mordekaiser

PopcornBunniOct 10, 20182 votes

Poor, poor Morty. His magnet field or cone really should slow at the very least. I know he builds item 3116 usually which does give all his spells sticking power, but it really should be inate to his kit in some way. He's the only Juggernaut you can literally just WALK AWAY FROM.

kargishOct 10, 20181 votes

Add gravitation to his W :)

TormentulaOct 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6h7M6EuA,comment-id=000700000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-10T01:28:26.954+0000)

so if someone deals 1000 mixed damage with a 50/50 split, camilles shield is still going to absorb 500 of that damage.

how exactly is that nothing?

How's that mathmatically possible?

Not including runes, a standard camille build (assuming GA, boots, and jg item) would only give her 3171 base health at level 18 (base 2020.6 + item 3078 item 3748 item 3053

At most level 18 full build in this case, you'd get a 634 damage absortion shield... literally not even enough to block an auto attack at that stage of the game from a marksmen if its physical. Remove that and question what her fight sustain is when she doesn't have a reliable heal ( Fiora ) or damage migitation Irelia or a low CD shield that works for both sides while on a champ with enough CC to stop the player from hitting in the first place Riven .

a 20% max health shield is still a juggernaut ability and doesnt belong into a skirmisher or even diver kit

Warwick Diana Riven

a 20% max health shield doesn't paint the full store. Who needs it? Camille has no sustain like I mentioned. Vi has this shield. Irelia has damage migitation that prevents more damage then if it was a shield. WW's Q probably heals double that amount which is like migitating damage taken.. + his E.

Camille's passive really is not at all an issue since they gutted her W, in which it was a big overkill with the healing and free trading.

divers or skirmishers shouldnt just be mobile juggernauts. otherwise there is no point to actual juggernauts existing.

Its been vice versa hella more. There are times where there's practically not point for a skirmisher or diver because juggernauts just meat sheild and dish more damage then them. Juggernaut update show what a mistake it was and to this day its hard to put juggernauts into the meta without them taking completely over or introducing weaknesses that they flat out can't compete against.

And we've seen juggernauts even bend the rules of their own description Urgot (E)

the advantage divers have is target access and or team engage. juggernauts should just be upfront more threatening in a head on fight in return, due to higher base damage and defense.

Sounds about right.

Camille 's E and R are good engages/diving tools. Her shield isn't completely reliable but it helps her engage on the target she accessed and fight them. She's squishy and puts herself in the middle of danger to do it.

Juggernauts have significantly higher defenses, Garen Skarner Urgot , healing and sustain Illaoi Darius , and uh... whatever the fuck this is Mordekaiser . Juggs can build 1 damage item (trinity/cleaver) and be all set, going full tank after that. Camille would literally do 0 damage if she went full tank as that true damage will get countered by health items and health scaling if she doesn't build AD. When she goes AD she can 1v1/assassinate somebody (name a diver that can't) but in a teamfight she's more punishable for trying to do it with all the surrounding peel while melting in health.

Dont get me wrong, camille is good, I wouldnt vote broken but good (she literally gets shit on top, thats why jungle camille is just her home where she can focus more on coming out of the shadows and early cheesing instead because in lane atm she loses most matchups and is literally reportable if she picks camille after FP jax.), but you're really overselling her.

TormentulaOct 11, 20181 votes

that shield doesn't do much for her in a teamfight lol

Its at best a good lane trading tool or a punishment for going full one damage type comps.

AS I LAY FEEDINGOct 10, 20183 votes

Cho'gath is broken, you guys are calling him a juggernaut. Ofc he is a juggernaut, a juggernaut that dosent even build a single dmg item because he everything besides mobility. Cho'gath is one of the few tanks that should get removed because he gets to win the lanning phase for free. Every tank rework has been a joke since they have only tossed a ton %dmg on them. I used to pick him back in the day, but not anymore because i dont wanna pick such a toxic champ.

Clockwork MouseOct 9, 20181 votes

Camille is top lane trash, change my mind

ankoanko19Oct 9, 20181 votes

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/current/platinum/plus/champion/Camille/Top/

Clockwork MouseOct 9, 20181 votes

Doesn't change my mind. More then half of the top laners can counter her. Win rate doesn't prove anything, only that some people who play her win games. COuld have just got carried by a series of good jungles. and at higher play they know not to feed.