Dorans

khorney·Jun 24, 2016·1 votes·792 views

For Gods sake as a adc do not i repeat do not buy dorans first then back to buy cull....... there is 0 reason to do that that is inefficeienct and your wasiting your time. do tell me the rational behind that. backing to buy a 2nd dorans blade great or buying cull first which is the smart thing to do regadless then backing to buy a dorans is fine. But the other way around ..... is beyond stupid. Fact buying cull has more lifesteal then dorans until your well over 100 ad, not to mention if your supp bought relic shiled the cs they execute counts towards your stacks.

can some one please explain the rational behind buy dorans then backing to buy cull...... im not seeing it at all your losing gold and time.

42 Comments

Deep Terror NamiJun 24, 20164 votes

I'm no ADC, but I know the pros do that (Cull second)...The stats of a Doran's Blade are superior for trading over Cull, so if one ADC gets Cull and the other a Doran's, the one with Doran's can force fights and win. I guess?

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

i can careless if they do it, its stupid and has 0 rational behind it. the 2 ad differnece between the 2..... is nothing what so ever, cull has more lifesteal till you have well over 100 ad(do the math). and really people will say dorans is a better start cause of the extra hp, which is like 1 to 2 aa you can take which what eves. i only ever take dorans if im stacking the lifesteal which works btw. there is absolutly 0 effieiceny to buy dorans then back to buy cull......

Deep Terror NamiJun 24, 20162 votes

I'm pretty sure the best players in the world have good reasons for what they do, especially when there is a huge pile of cash on the line.

atrickofthemindJun 24, 20161 votes

Is this really what pro players are doing? I dont watch much of the pro scene so i never know what the new "it" build is. I thought this was in reference to normal peeps, not pro players. I guess if you are really trying to trade and not sit back and farm then i can see why they do it. Pros are WAY better at CS than us mortals, so the drawback to getting cull a bit late is negligible to them. In the same way that in a trade, the extra lifesteal from cull is negligible, but one or two autos that the HP can absorb is not. I learned something today. (Still not personally buying cull 2nd, cant farm like the pros, I think cull is better than people give it credit if you like to play more passively in lane)

atrickofthemindJun 24, 20161 votes

Completely agree with you, buying them in that order just seems silly. That being said, i dont think I've ever seen someone do it. Kind of surprised that you are seeing it happen so much.

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

i see it a lot and it really really irratates me, just as much as it is when some one gets like a triple then backs and buys attack speed and wonders why they get beat in lane........ or again when a ez who decides to go bluebuild rushes manamune......... that again is ineffiecient, better to buy tear then iceborn gaunlet...why you ask is because your damage output is higher then rushing manamune. do the math 100% of your base ad plus what ever your ad is at at the time does more damage then the 25 ad you will get from manamune.

ShinkoMinoriJun 24, 20161 votes

Cull is the single stupidest item you can start with, I've never seen an adc win with it in a lane and every single adc who starts with it deserves to lose.

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

yes the most gold effeicent item in the game period is stupid.... and i have not losty yet.let me explain the math getting 100 cs on average of 18 gold half being melee and half being ranged not counting siege cs will get you 2800 gold after sellign it back and staring dorans you will get 1800 gold ..... how is that stupid there guy

atrickofthemindJun 24, 20161 votes

You get refunded 450 total gold, 350 from getting to 100 cs and 1 gold per each of those cs. you also cant sell the item for its full value. so please explain to me how buying cull first creates a 1000 gold difference, especially when if they buy it second they still get the benefits of that extra gold, just delayed. Also I wouldnt think they would immediately sell it back, why lose the damage and lifesteal for the small gold gain from selling before you need to open up a slot? The more you post the more angry i am that I initially agreed with you.

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

becuase you get all your starting gold plus the sale of the item, dorans you lose the gold so thats how i came up with the difference in gold. cull plus starting gold is a value plus the difference between the what you just get off of dorans blade sale you take what ever the difference is and minus for the cs value and thats how i came up with my equation.

msk51Jun 24, 20161 votes

It makes sense because Doran's is crucial. Just like deep terror nami said, it is superior in trading. Dorans give you extra 80 health. It doesn't matter how much life steal cull gives, you will still lose. Everytime. That being said, Cull does provide some nice early lifesteal and it pays for itself. So dorans if overall the better option, but I think in the pro's mind and many players, cull pays for itself. Why not get the extra cheap AD and lifesteal when it's for free in the end?

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

becuase you have to waste time and your losing gold becuase starting cull you get all your starting gold back as well as the gold you get for selling it and its been crucial being able to finish a item, buying cull 2nd gives you nothign but wasting your time becuase now you have to waste time csing instead of saving the gold and buying a crucial item.

msk51Jun 24, 20161 votes

Here's my take on it. I don't alter any of my actions for cull. But I have found that my first back is usually with around 1800 gold. So if I buy a B.F. Sword and a potion, that leaves me the perfect amount for a cull. I'd rather take a cull over dagger, boots, etc. So i'd agree with you, maybe it's not smart to back purely for cull, or to alter your actions for cull, but if the money is there why not?

Also, it's hard to argue with something that the pros do... xD

ShinkoMinoriJun 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'd rather take a cull over dagger, boots, etc.

Cull over boots? are you bronze?... oh wait you are unranked...

msk51Jun 24, 20161 votes

[deleted]

ShinkoMinoriJun 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lol, yeah. But honestly, I've seen countless pros do it. Again, how do you argue with doublelift or wildturtle?

They don't pick boots over cull I can tell you that. Also they have 96 cs by 10 mins.

msk51Jun 24, 20161 votes

Many times they have, and actually cs is the one thing I am good at. On average, I miss around 3-4 minions before I back.

ShinkoMinoriJun 24, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Many times they have, and actually cs is the one thing I am good at. On average, I miss around 3-4 minions before I back.

28 mins: 105 cs 21 mins: 41 cs 32 mins: 179 cs 39 mins: 196 cs 30 mins: 169 cs 29 mins 203 cs 41 mins: 244 cs 46 mins: 258 cs

I mean your cs is at silver lvl... but hardly missing only 3-4 minions.

msk51Jun 24, 20161 votes

Don't hold the 21 cs against me... :)

If you look at those times, it's about midish game. So unlike pros, I tend to forget about farming once I'm fighting with the team, something I need to work on. The early game farm is there. It's once I leave bot and group that my cs score suffers.

msk51Jun 24, 20161 votes

Okay, and let me clarify. It depends on what champ you are playing. If I'm playing kalista, I'll probably take the dagger. If I'm playing Jinx or Ashe or someone with really low mobility and the other ADC has high mobility, I'll take boots. In short all I'm saying is yes, it's all situational. but don't completely rule out the option of cull. If done right, it can be a great asset.

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

no it cant............ your better off buying somethign that you will need all your doing by taking cull after is wiastime time and gold becuase cull adds nothing and gives you nothing. do tell how its a good asset.starting with cull YOU GET ALL YOUR STARTING GOLD BACK on top of that you get the gold for selling it. these are facts.

msk51Jun 24, 20161 votes

It give bonus AD, if I laned against someone with dorans and boots and I had cull and dorans, I would win.

And lol, you keep ignoring the fact that pros do it almost every game. How do you argue with that? xD

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

And your still ignoring the fact that A I would not back to buy boots and Dora's that is stupid I would depending on how much gold would back and buy Dorans or long sword and pots . And yes Dorans sure your losing gold but gaining more ad hp and stacking the lifesteal which for me means more survivability. If I had 900 Ish or more I wouldn't buy anything and save for bf sword . Less then that I would buy what I stated above and a attack speed item.

0 reason to buy dorans then backing to buy cull . Better off buying a 2nd dorans.

msk51Jun 24, 20161 votes

Yes, for an early game double dorans can be good, but cull pays for itself in the end. ADC's are just trying to get as much money as they can, so having an item that pays for itself plus some is a pretty nice deal.

khorneyJun 25, 20161 votes

yes which is why you start with this right off instead of a dorans. Because you even said yourself it pays for itself but its nice becuase you get all your starting gold back. here is the thing buying it 2nd makes 0 senese sure it pays for itself but now your taking the time to farm the 100cs, if you had started with it your saving time becuase your suppsoed to be csing anyways sooo. buying a 2nd dorans sure yes i get it your losing money how ever gaining more survivability means more to me regardless of the gold loss. thats like comparing to a renekton goin gfull ad to not full ad....

msk51Jun 24, 20161 votes

Lol, yeah. But honestly, I've seen countless pros do it. Again, how do you argue with doublelift or wildturtle? The idea of going cull over boots came from them, not me.

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

here is the thing cull adds nothing to your kit if you do not intially buy it boots does.

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

Here is the thing people won't do that they will buy dorans then back and buy cull. Nothing else and they wonder why they lose or the adc who rushes attack speed and wonders why the adc who had bf sword is smashing them

msk51Jun 24, 20161 votes

I strongly disagree with backing just for cull. That is so ridiculous! I agree with you there.

khorneyJun 25, 20161 votes

people do it and people on here says it is the thing to do becuase the pros do it. i look at things beign effeiceint or not being effeiecent. liek here is effeiceint as ez buying tear asap and then buying iceborn. not effeiceint rushing manamune then buying iceborn (if iceborn is what you want to do). my ez builld is buying triforce then frozen heart becuase your still gettting the defense cd and mana but no slow but your doing mroe damage.

msk51Jun 25, 20161 votes

huh, that's smart! I never thought of building Ez that way...

khorneyJun 25, 20161 votes

thats why i do it becuase your not losing damage just a itme slot. or if you want to you get lord dom and void staff , and triforce and bam more damage.

GundayMondayJun 24, 20161 votes

@OP you're wrong. Cull is an investment tool. It's very efficient, and you're buying it to get a large spike in 10-15mins. Not ALWAYS bad. Now if you buy cull to towerdive and fight constantly... yeah, it's dumb. Still depends on what you're trying to do but backing to pick up a cull is fine if you're going for the extra gold for a later power spike.

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

and again your wrong you get no power spike from backinng and buying cull. here is the facts if you start cull your job is basicvalkly to cs right.... and getting all your starting gold back on top of what you get from selling it gives you a huge power spike. buying dorans and instead of buying a 2nd dorans you buy cull gives you nothing but wasited time. so that is the facts you cant argue agasint it . listen you get nothing backing to buy cull nohting but waisted time. Why i say that is becuase you can use that gold for a item you actaully need not umm ill waiste gold and time and get the gold later. here is the facts again buying cull first gives you all your starting gold back your better off buying a 2nd dorans for A you get more ad and B stacking the lifesteal.

GundayMondayJun 24, 20161 votes

The power spike is after cull stacks. Here let me break it down for you: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Cull

Cull: Costs 450g

Gives 7 AD (worth 245g) Gives 3 health on-hit (not really sure how much gold worth)

Gives +1 gold for every minion killed, up to 100 (+100g) Fully stacked, gives +350g.

So net, you're getting 245g+450g+ 3hp on hit for 450g.

Then you can sell it for 180g to make room for more items.

So pay 450, get 245g+450g+180g = 875g when you sell it. You're +425g with some extra sustain in lane. That's when you spend the gold and get a slightly larger power spike since it's a free kill and a half.

#Facts

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

Fact let me break it down for you. Are you really going to go cs 100 cs after 9 min.......or save the gold and get a item that you need facts....

GundayMondayJun 24, 20161 votes

Look I get it, you're not used to seeing people play passively and have perfect cs. This happens. It's a great item if you want to beat your opponent with lane manipulation and trading, while waiting for a late game powerspike. Think Ezreal, Vayne, Kog'maw type ADCs. They're not going to win many duels early, but they want to wait until they get that mid-late game powerspike. Cull lets them get to that spike sooner. That's all.

This is a strategy game, not all strategies involve fighting and immediate aggression.

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

look i get it your not understanding what im saying. your buying a 450 item to get the gold later your not gainign anything by getting it nothing but sure your not losing gold by getting a 2nd dorans blade which would be the better buy by far, why lets see more ad more lifesteal and more hp. what do you get from buying dorans then cull lets see nothing but wasited time. but your not losing the gold is all your getting by it. ez is a poke adc and vayne has true damage so she can win duels early so i really dont get what your saying, the kog sure doesnt mostly neihter does twitch. yes you even stated cull lets them get to power spike sooner which is why you start with it over dorans blade. why becuase you get all your starting gold back which is huge,so yes your agreeing with me starting cull is better then starting dorans becuase of this. im saying it makes 0 sense to start dorans then back and buy cull........umm why better off buying a 2nd dorans blade for more survivability.

GundayMondayJun 24, 20161 votes

I get your point. You're still wrong. Here's how it works:

Doran's items = strong now Cull = Stronger later

All you're doing is moving when you're strong. If you get cull, you're not getting it to fight. If you get dorans items, you are. That's it, that's the difference. You get to buy your late game items faster with cull by playing safe and farming. Make sense?

khorneyJun 24, 20161 votes

dorans or cull both are strong from the start, buying cull 2nd does nothing but take away from getting items that you need so i would rather get longsword becuase i will need that say for ghost blade or you can

GundayMondayJun 24, 20161 votes

You're still missing the difference. Do the math yourself.

khorneyJun 25, 20161 votes

i am doing the math yes i get it cull pays for itself but now you have to take the time to cs instead of getting a item you need. im more for buying a longsword instead becuase that will turn into something you need efficeint. buying cull sure it pays for itself but you have to A get the 100 cs and B it doesnt turn into something. buying cull right off is effeiceitn cause as you just stated it pays for itself so gettign all your starting gold back and csing from cs spawn time is beyond effiecient becuase your saving time. so do the math