Tanks need some new items.

The thigh guy·Jun 28, 2019·38 votes·13,862 views

Tanks physically can’t deal with the amount of damage in the game.

It’s too much. It used to be, build tank early for mid game team fights. Now it’s all damage, always damage, forever damage. Anything else is trolling.

111 Comments

Jimmy RustlesJun 28, 201911 votes

First we shall add true armor which can't be reduced by name means and even works against true damage

Then we shall see the rise of truer damage, which works through true armor

Silent ReaperJun 28, 20197 votes

Welcome to League of Damage Where everyone has mobility and tank/utility doesn't matter.

Dr EndeavorJun 28, 20196 votes

item 3193 I feel like I need this every time I tank

RalanrJun 28, 20195 votes

I still fucking hate that item. Late game I guess it's fine, but I don't like having my damage reduced for that window, especially since we don't see anything similar for offensive power aside from Olaf's ult.

CurS1VEJun 28, 20193 votes

yo eff that, tanks use to build Iceborne and Sunfire and literally would deal ridiculously stupid amounts of damage while being insanely difficult to kill.

Why do you want that sort of meta to come back? if tanks are difficult-extremely difficult to kill then literally they should have 0 absolutely NO kill pressure through damage because flat out when tanks are just insane meat shields who can engage and cc you're best carries and never die then they should be doing like nothing in terms of dmg except that's not what happens in this game because Juggernauts exist, Tanks have to be able to match those guys in order to be worth a pick which in turn makes them too busted.

I don't want to see maokai or poppy or have to waste bans on fucking Sion ever again like just think about that, the champs that are suppose to do like meh damage would be sooo busted that they require bans like that already has been shown and proven and we've seen Tank meta for 2 seasons (6-7 not all of 7 tho) the game was boring af and now its way way better flat out

The thigh guyJun 29, 20193 votes

{quoted}

yo eff that, tanks use to build Iceborne and Sunfire and literally would deal ridiculously stupid amounts of damage while being insanely difficult to kill.

Why do you want that sort of meta to come back? if tanks are difficult-extremely difficult to kill then literally they should have 0 absolutely NO kill pressure through damage because flat out when tanks are just insane meat shields who can engage and cc you're best carries and never die then they should be doing like nothing in terms of dmg except that's not what happens in this game because Juggernauts exist, Tanks have to be able to match those guys in order to be worth a pick which in turn makes them too busted.

I don't want to see maokai or poppy or have to waste bans on fucking Sion ever again like just think about that, the champs that are suppose to do like meh damage would be sooo busted that they require bans like that already has been shown and proven and we've seen Tank meta for 2 seasons (6-7 not all of 7 tho) the game was boring af and now its way way better flat out

Poppy level 18

Ibg 138 damage per second and best Sunfire 46 damage per second at best. 182 total damage per second from these items.

And that’s before base resistances. But please. Continue to spew tanks do too much damage. :/

CrazyMonkeyCZJun 28, 20191 votes

[deleted]

SuicidePlankJun 28, 201910 votes

{quoted}

Just as it should be :), tanks are for braindeads.

Rumble, Singed, Tryndamere. What are you then?

CrazyMonkeyCZJun 28, 2019

{quoted}

Rumble, Singed, Tryndamere. What are you then?

If it can die, it's harder than any tank, so yeah, by playing Trynd I'm kinda bd as well.

MediafighterJun 28, 20198 votes

so u say trynda is harder than tanks when he may be even easier than yi and the only skill level mechanics he needs is press r and right click to oneshot.Ok buddy

tempname1232134Jun 28, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Rumble, Singed, Tryndamere. What are you then?

Singed MasterYi Tryndamere Jax and then every adc in the game other then ezreal

The thigh guyJun 28, 201928 votes

{quoted}

Just as it should be :), tanks are for braindeads.

Oh yeah. Big brain assassin mains point and click insta gibbing.

CrazyMonkeyCZJun 28, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6c0L0ul0,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-06-28T13:48:34.973+0000)

Oh yeah. Big brain assassin mains point and click insta gibbing.

Better than mindnumbing laning against something unkillable :)

Slythrin UmbreonJun 28, 201918 votes

Why not actually balance the game so we can play both and both feel impactful?

DuskDaUmbreonJun 28, 20191 votes

Because it's not really ever going to happen where both feel impactful.

Assassins tend to fail in high-durability environments. Once tanks (or hell, even juggernauts) are meta assassins start losing usefulness. Especially in ones where there's a lot of CC and teamfighting.

RalanrJun 28, 20191 votes

Right, the meta shifts and classes get weaker if it's not their meta. But the meta always shifts, so tanks will get back up there at one point.

DuskDaUmbreonJun 29, 20192 votes

You're right, but metas don't shift spontaneously on a large-scale.

Riot would have to buff tanks in some way for them to move back into meta at most tiers. Either directly through buffs or indirectly by creating an environment they thrive in.

Romans VI XXIIIJun 28, 20198 votes

No a correctly balanced environment would require a tank for the assassins, a DPS for the tank, an assassin for the DPS. Its supposed to be a triangle with the support in middle.

Tanks beats the Assassin/Burst

DPS beats the Tank

Assassin/Burst beats the DPS

DuskDaUmbreonJun 29, 20192 votes

Except there are two classes of burst. One that does well in teamfights, which you're going to see more of in metas with tanks, and one that doesn't really do that well in teamfights.

Spoiler alert: Assassins aren't that first group. They're the second.

In metas where tanks are common you're going to see more mages, since they're a more teamfight-friendly burst. Longer range, CC, and AoE all make for champions that are useful in teamfights.

Granted, this isn't absolute. Certain assassins thrive in tank metas (I assume Eve does since she has CC, MR shred, and AoE), and certain mages are useless in tank metas. And ofc both assassins and tanks can be busted at the same time.

The triangle works in theory, but only if you assume it's tanks for durability, late-game ADCs for the DPS, and mages for the burst. As soon as you throw in other classes, especially ones that straddle the line between two points, it starts to screw up that triangle. Nasus is arguably DPS as well as durability, so does he win or lose against burst? Renekton is durabilty/burst, so who does he lose to? A lot of divers classify as all three, so what happens to them? The entire system was fucked up as soon as a 5th class was introduced.

Romans VI XXIIIJun 29, 20192 votes

NEGATIVE, that is where BALANCE comes in.

IF the mage is supposed to BURST people down (assassinate) then they should be adjusted so.

IF the mage is supposed to DPS people down (ADC/APC) then they should be adjusted as so.

balance balance balance, something Riot has never been good at.

DuskDaUmbreonJun 29, 20192 votes

Except mages and assassins are both burst. A few mages are more DPS-oriented, but mages as a whole are burst.

RalanrJun 29, 20192 votes

Which makes itemization for AP Bruisers (with Bruisers being DPS based) very difficult.

AP Bruisers either become assassins or just sometimes work.

DuskDaUmbreonJun 29, 20192 votes

Hell, AP champions as a whole are incredibly hard to get to build anything different from each other. They all want burst, and there's almost always a single optimal build for that.

The only real exception is enchanters, and they're not really normal AP champions anyways.

GodlyBaneJun 30, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Hell, AP champions as a whole are incredibly hard to get to build anything different from each other. They all want burst, and there's almost always a single optimal build for that.

The only real exception is enchanters, and they're not really normal AP champions anyways.

Why are you complaining tho? Its the way mages are the best champions in the game. Overtime damage doesnt have much of an impact, so why would you want that? It can just be healed through. I dont see the problem with building a 100% gauranteed anti assassin, anti tank, anti adc, anti heal build on every mage. I would kill for every bruiser or ad assassin to have one standard build every game as long as it gaurantees success.

Slythrin UmbreonJun 28, 20193 votes

Bull shit. This game actually used to be like that. Zed and Pantheon used to be top tier champions, even back in 40-60 minute games. It's not impossible, Riot just hates half the things they'd have to do achieve it. Half the time, they don't even try. So we're stuck with this god damn carousal instead of any attempt at actual balance.

DuskDaUmbreonJun 29, 20193 votes

Pantheon isn't a tank....?

HP CrookshanksJun 28, 201929 votes

Kayn Khazix Rengar Talon Zed with item 3147 item 3814 item 3036 item 3071 item 3142 one shotting tanks is the real braindeath. Tanks are supposed to counter assassins not the other way around.

ChaosLordMadisJun 28, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=HP Crookshanks,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6c0L0ul0,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2019-06-28T14:18:02.191+0000)

with one shotting tanks is the real braindeath. Tanks are supposed to counter assassins not the other way around.

....... They are desingend to be tank killers...... th ats the whole point . Yes there is a lot of damage but with out a tank killing champ or build tanks can pretty much sit in a \n a enemy team and soak damage all day if built rig ht.

The thigh guyJun 28, 201921 votes

{quoted}

....... They are desingend to be tank killers...... th ats the whole point . Yes there is a lot of damage but with out a tank killing champ or build tanks can pretty much sit in a \n a enemy team and soak damage all day if built rig ht.

Yes. Issues arise when those aren’t champions meant to kill tanks.

Vayne Kog’maw Varus Brand Cassiopeia Ryze Yi Rhaast Etc etc.

These are the champions meant to counter tanks.

The basic triangle used to be Tank > burst Burst > dps Dps > tank Now it’s Burst > tank Burst > dps Better burst > burst

That’s the issue. We need to start just ripping stats off offensive items across the board, or give tanks items that flat out remove ad/ap from people.

Like and item that takes up the thornmail passive, and replaces it with an adaptive force drain

ChaosLordMadisJun 28, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6c0L0ul0,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2019-06-28T15:47:04.631+0000)

Yes. Issues arise when those aren’t champions meant to kill tanks.

Vayne Kog’maw Varus Brand Cassiopeia Ryze Yi Rhaast Etc etc.

These are the champions meant to counter tanks.

The basic triangle used to be Tank > burst Burst > dps Dps > tank Now it’s Burst > tank Burst > dps Better burst > burst

That’s the issue. We need to start just ripping stats off offensive items across the board, or give tanks items that flat out remove ad/ap from people.

Like and item that takes up the thornmail passive, and replaces it with an adaptive force drain

Well I could probably see them doing something to offensive items.... But the latter that would just make tanks completely unbearable again. And thats coming form someone that likes playing tanks >.<.

The thigh guyJun 28, 20196 votes

{quoted}

Well I could probably see them doing something to offensive items.... But the latter that would just make tanks completely unbearable again. And thats coming form someone that likes playing tanks >.<.

I don’t think the latter is that insane. The average bruiser is breaking 400 ad now because of how ludacrisly overstated they are.

ChaosLordMadisJun 28, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6c0L0ul0,comment-id=000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-28T16:48:34.611+0000)

I don’t think the latter is that insane. The average bruiser is breaking 400 ad now because of how ludacrisly overstated they are.

Because mages ha vent already been breaking 400 ap for how long XD

Romans VI XXIIIJun 28, 20195 votes

Last I checked AP =/= AD in a 1 to 1 ratio lol.

ChaosLordMadisJun 28, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Romans VI XXIII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6c0L0ul0,comment-id=00000002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-28T18:49:35.077+0000)

Last I checked AP =/= AD in a 1 to 1 ratio lol.

Still I fail to see your point is thier a problem right now iwth damge yes. How ever you can buld a tank that can some waht surive in a team fight. Is it harder to do sure. But it is possible.

Romans VI XXIIIJun 28, 20193 votes

You fail to see that 400 AD does not equal 400 AP?

Then u need to go back and learn the basics of League.

The thigh guyJun 28, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Because mages ha vent already been breaking 400 ap for how long XD

400 ap and 400 ad are two VERY different things.

Yets4240Jun 29, 20193 votes

Not to mention, we literally have entire sets of items dedicated to reducing the MR and Armor that tanks have ON TOP OF TRUE DAMAGE WHICH IGNORES ALL OF BOTH ENTIRELY and wait, they also added damage modifiers on items, runes, etc to do more damage to people with more health than you! BUT FUCKING WAIT! THERE IS STILL GODDAMN MORE! THERE IS ALSO % HP DAMAGE WHICH SCALES WITH FLAT ARMOR PENETRATION, AND FLAT MAGIC PENETRATION AND % MAGIC PENETRATION, % ARMOR PEN, %ARMOR REDUCTION, FLAT ARMOR REDUCTION, AND LEHTALITY-- IT EVEN COMES IN TRUE DAMAGE FLAVORS AND RUNES LIKE CONQUEROR TURN PHYSICAL AND MAGICAL % HP DAMAGE ALSO INTO TRUE % HP DAMAGE

All told, the vast majority of defensive stats (which by the way, experience linear returns to scale naturally, without all the pens, reductions, ignores, etc factored in, they actually get less than 1:1 scaling for the defensive stats that they buy; in contrast to damage which increases in value exponentially more the more of the other 4 offensive stats you have, for runaway exponentiation of damage, which is designed to outscale defense before you even mitigate or ignore the vast majority of defenses other champions have purchased with shred, pen and reductions.) already get ignored and turned to 0 by carries. Its in a way fucking worse way than if tanks had an item to temporarily reduce AD/AP to those attacking them.

A full armor Rammus, using DBC, the strongest resistance steroid in the game, can get up to over 800 armor temporarily. A full pen Zed (who by the way has no innate armor pen, shred, or reductions) can remove 690 of that 800 armor, and leave Rammus with a little less than 110. He also would still have an item slot to get more damage or even a BotRK for %HP physical damage on autos to combo with his % hp damage execute passive, or to go with his ludicrously high base attack speed, and gargantuan free AD passive that he has for no real reason.

The thigh guyJun 29, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Not to mention, we literally have entire sets of items dedicated to reducing the MR and Armor that tanks have ON TOP OF TRUE DAMAGE WHICH IGNORES ALL OF BOTH ENTIRELY and wait, they also added damage modifiers on items, runes, etc to do more damage to people with more health than you! BUT FUCKING WAIT! THERE IS STILL GODDAMN MORE! THERE IS ALSO % HP DAMAGE WHICH SCALES WITH FLAT ARMOR PENETRATION, AND FLAT MAGIC PENETRATION AND % MAGIC PENETRATION, % ARMOR PEN, %ARMOR REDUCTION, FLAT ARMOR REDUCTION, AND LEHTALITY-- IT EVEN COMES IN TRUE DAMAGE FLAVORS AND RUNES LIKE CONQUEROR TURN PHYSICAL AND MAGICAL % HP DAMAGE ALSO INTO TRUE % HP DAMAGE

All told, the vast majority of defensive stats (which by the way, experience linear returns to scale naturally, with all the pens, reductions, ignores, etc factored in, they actually get less than 1:1 scaling for the defensive stats that they buy; in contrast to damage which increases in value exponentially more the more of the other 4 offensive stats you have, for runaway exponentiation of damage, which is designed to outscale defense before you even mitigate or ignore the vast majority of defenses other champions have purchases with shred, pen and reductions.) already get ignored and turned to 0 by carries. Its in a way fucking worse way than if tanks had an item to temporarily reduce AD/AP to those attacking them.

A full armor Rammus, using DBC, the strongest resistance steroid in the game, can get up to over 800 armor temporarily. A full pen Zed (who by the way has no innate armor pen, shred, or reductions) can remove 690 of that 800 armor, and leave Rammus with a little less than 110. He also would still have an item slot to get more damage or even a BotRK for %HP physical damage on autos to combo with his % hp damage execute passive, or to go with his ludicrously high base attack speed, and gargantuan free AD passive that he has for no real reason.

And the only arguement that I ever see presented against this shit is “but but but, tank meta? :c”

It’s stupid.

Yets4240Jun 29, 20193 votes

Bonus points for League only ever having one tank meta in its entire history, for a few weeks in season 5, when the overwhelming majority of people bitching about "mUh tAnK mEta" weren't even playing . . .

cale1991Jun 28, 20192 votes

i don't think that the items and numbers are exactly to be faulted here. it's down to the diminishing returns of higher numbers in the resistance stats. anything over 50-60% dmg reduction is a waste of gold due to how scaling works. cause of that, it's better to itemize into hp, but since we're itemizing into hp, we might as well go with the bruiser build, but now we're going bruiser build and ending up with the ideal numbers in AD/AP MR/AR and HP. you can easily end up having around 50%+ dmg reduction 3,5-4k HP with around 300 AD. why would you then play a tank? that's why i think that the scaling of resistances is holding tanks back, and yes, powercreep of bruiser items throughout the years is also at fault here.

tempname1232134Jun 28, 20195 votes

{quoted}

....... They are desingend to be tank killers...... th ats the whole point . Yes there is a lot of damage but with out a tank killing champ or build tanks can pretty much sit in a \n a enemy team and soak damage all day if built rig ht.

Vayne is a tank killer but she kills everything else to fast also assassins with those items should not at all even dent tanks. tanks do not exist in this game period

AMADEUSdotEXEJun 28, 20193 votes

is a tank killer but she kills everything else to fast also assassins with those items should not at all even dent tanks. tanks do not exist in this game period

Its almost like %HP True damage was a mistake...

Fear the KaynJun 28, 20191 votes

Atmas Impaler.

The thigh guyJun 28, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fear the Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6c0L0ul0,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-28T16:56:43.787+0000)

Atmas Impaler.

As much fun as atmogs sounds, Idk I’d tanks are the right thing.

RalanrJun 28, 20196 votes

Most tanks scale off of AP. The only tanks that really scale with AD are Poppy Sion and Ornn . Atmas would not help tanks, it would primarily help juggernauts or other beefy fighters.

Atmas is not the answer for tanks.

tempname1232134Jun 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Most tanks scale off of AP. The only tanks that really scale with AD are and . Atmas would not help tanks, it would primarily help juggernauts or other beefy fighters.

Atmas is not the answer for tanks.

ornn is mixed autos Q and E are ad and R is ap W is magic pen

RalanrJun 28, 20193 votes

E is actually Armor and MR (I think it does magic damage but I can’t remember). Sion is also mixed with his W and E being magic, I just listed these three as they are the only tanks that have AD scaling in their abilities.

I guess so does Gnar but idk what Gnar really is.

PurpleKingCrazyJun 29, 20191 votes

I think Leona could go AD as well if she wanted to and it would scale off with her AA's nicely.

RalanrJun 29, 20191 votes

I mean, technically yes but she has no AD scaling abilities. Because tanks are primarily ability focused champions, their scaling is somewhat important.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen AD Leona in action. She hurts.

PurpleKingCrazyJun 29, 20191 votes

yea. After all I prefer AP Leona because of raw damage.