@Riot Meddler, are you satisfied with the state of Varus in the modern game?

ABlueQuaker··11 votes·9,669 views

He was released in May 2012. Since then as an Immobile Poke/Catch champion who's core gameplay was Poke with Q, catch a squishy with R and deal mixed damage with Blight & Blight Detonation.

But right now his niche out outclassed by the likes of Kalista and even Ashe who can engage from a safer position and poke without having to put up with an absurd channel time that also slows an already immobile AD Carry. It's really not optimal because what you trade for that poke far outweighs the strength of the poke itself.

When I look at other AD Carries I seriously wonder why Varus was designed the way that he is. Does he really need a channel time on his Q? Should that channel time be as long as it is? Should channeling his Q really slow him? Sadly, the answer to most of these questions is something along the lines of 'back in 2012 it would be alright'. But since 2012 we've seen the introduction and rework of AD Carries such as Lucian, Tristana, Sivir, Twitch and Kalista who all have more Poke, Carry Potential and Mobility than Varus - even Kog'Maw got some love.

Now, I've played Varus a fair bit since I started playing mid-2012, and I've always liked his playstyle. But nowadays I can't afford to pick him in most situations because, despite my affinity for him, he's just straight-up outclassed in all of the roles that he half-fills. If I wanted a High-poke AD Carrry I'd probably pick Jinx or Caitlyn who are much safer and scale harder into the game. If I wanted a champion that I could use to initiate fights I would probably pick Ashe or Kalista who are also much safer where Ashe can engage from a much greater distance and Kalista is far more mobile.

30 Comments

RiotMeddler19 votes

The niche we've got in mind for Varus is a combination of poke and moderate ranged initiation/counter initiation, primarily via his Q and R respectively. We've been feeling he's a bit weak at those for a while and have been gradually buffing him as a result. That's involved increased mana regen late last year to support poke and increased R width recently to improve his ult's reliability. Additionally in the upcoming patch (5.5), we'll be changing his Q cooldown to begin at start of channel, not when he fires the arrow off. That should give him access to more Q casts late game in particular, and make charged shots (as opposed to saving the Q to proc Blight) a bit more attractive.

ABlueQuaker5 votes

Have you thought/discussed removing the slow-while-channeling on his Q and/or reducing cast and channel times on his Q and E? I can understand that you'd like to make sure that there's counter-play, but don't you think him being completely immobile in the current form of the game leaves him vulnerable enough?

At least Ashe's abilities don't hinder her movement.

EDIT: I also think that proccing Blight with Q should be more of a lane phase harass/mid-game poke sort of usage with E being the primary way to proc it in a teamfight scenario. Otherwise it's like using Ace in the Hole in the middle of a teamfight - it's detrimental to your DPS. Perhaps maybe reducing the cast time (and possibly allowing it to be cast while moving) and increasing the missile speed on E could be a good way to make it more teamfight-friendly.

Obviously you can't implement all of these ideas, but considering one or two of them couldn't hurt.

Joe Dredd1 votes

The cooldown starting at the beginning of the cast is already a pretty big buff

WarlockLaw1 votes

They can't really make him move at the speed because if you take a look at Xerath he slows down to charge his q as well. I do feel that they should make the two abilities have their damage work the same. Right now xerath gets full damage on instant casts but vars does not

ExecutorDill4 votes

Really? I find Varus find. He is super stong and has good poke and stuff, im more concerened about... you know >.> Shen

ItemsGuy1 votes

I think you're going to have a bit of trouble with this, considering that while, sure, his Q, R, and E allow him to poke and counterinitiate, as long as you've got his Innate and W eating up his power budget while being contrary to the rest of his kit (Q and E want to poke people down, and R potentially wants to keep people in E and hold them down for Q as long as possible, while Innate and W want him to constantly fire off attacks and alternate a quick tap of Q or E on every third stack).

If you want him to own that "Poke/counterinitiation" niche (which still overlaps a bit with Ashe, but the differences are enough to distinguish them I suppose), I think you're eventually going to have to replace his Innate and W with abilities that follow the same goal as the rest of his abilities, or make them so weak that his Q, E, and R are allowed to be powerful enough to carve him into that niche.

Heal and Forget1 votes

The Q cooldown buff seems like it could really help 40% CDR builds.

Do you guys have any qualms if he is regularly played mid as an AD Caster (with 40% CDR) akin to Jayce instead of an ADC? I prefer to play him that way instead of as an ADC and think he could be perceived as stronger because you don't have to be focused too much with auto-attacking in the same spot as an immobile ADC.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

He only has 2 AD Scaling abilities whereas Jayce has 5. Not to mention the fact that he's mobile and has an Armor Debuff Passive.

5G8Nri0B544 votes

Has there been any discussion on making his Passive less...disappointing?

Perhaps something less conditional and not just a rather unsatisfying "win harder"-passive?

ABlueQuaker1 votes

tbh I'd eve be satisfied if his passive was something as % movement speed burst on-hit based off the number of blight stacks on them.

5G8Nri0B546 votes

I'd rather if his Blight stacks WAS his Passive, because in literally any other champions, it would have been the case.

Then his W can be something else perhaps. Like a skillshot or something for an extra chance to detonate the blights.

Fuzzkat2 votes

This is something I've felt he's needed every since Riot shifted all his power away from E and onto Q.

The Tilted King1 votes

I have yet to get varus, so take that in mind. but since I been playing seriously hes been on rotation about 3 times. and everytime he is I play him. I try to play him in almost every game i play because I enjoy him. his lore, his style, his kit and even his ulti are just good. his passive tho. while it does help somehwat with csing (you can just start a streak off minion kills and just keep AA'ing for cs, I have done it a lot( I feel it is 1) TOO SHORT! dam it lasts like...4 seconds or somethin, MAYBE. and 2) not fast enough for the time given. while I understand its also sort of for...getting a champ kill and immidiately moving onto the next one. thats very often not even the case as being an adc with no mobility and his ulti only lasting a short duration... its not even doable to kill a champ and snare and move onto the next one, as after getting a kill on a champ. again, being an adc with no escape or mobility you need to disengage almost immidiately 9/10 times. Which by the time you get back into a position to take other champs that passive is already gone. what I would personally like to see and I just thought of this reading the above posts. make blight his passive, make W some sort of detonation for his passive maybe? I would even be ok with just changing the scaling on W to be AD instead of AP (where as flavor does sort of make sense to make it AP) because as an ADC that he is, it wouldnt REALLY work out too well to build any sort of AP on him at all and it doesnt even scale that well anyway.

another suggestion Id say.. change the W from percent damage to flat? ehhh... just throwing ideas out.

Varus is a very cool champion and I enjoy playng him immensely, and hes really fun and I gotta tell ya, sniping with Q... ahh priceless.

PraetorPrime1 votes

This would be amazing

ExecutorDill1 votes

Why you no address Shen? His poke is extremely short in comparison to other single target pokes (namely Malphite, who is also a tank) and this often puts him in an unsafe spot and limits the little kill potential he has, Zed is more safe than him (and I thought assassins where all about High risk high reward). Buffing his Q range to a nice 525 or 500 at least would not be bad.

And why is he so slow? Jarvan and Cho'Gath are allowed more base movementspeed. Shen's armour looks way lighter than Jarvan, and Jarvan's kit design is similar to shen's (he even has a gap closer and like 700 range on Q). My guess is you guys just wanna be unfair to shen.

So that's all I'm asking for +25 to 50 units Q range and like +5 to 10 movement speed.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

If Malphite is poking with his q every time it's off cd then he's going to go oom incredibly fast, even if you're going ap Malph and getting mana regen items. Contrast this with Shen who uses energy and so... no such issues. Keep in mind, I'm not saying Shen couldn't use buffs, but I don't think it's his q that needs looking at.

ExecutorDill1 votes

IMO mama is better than energy because, (for me) by the time I need to recall for mana, I need to recall for items and so does my enemy so it's flaws are hardly noticeable and becomes not a problem late game. Energy users damage are extremely limited in TFs and have to follow circumstances in Oder to retain some energy. (Circumstances which are sometimes hard to fulfill) all a mana user has to do is back and get mana w/ items) Imagine a Zed running on mana... You would probably throw your PC into a wall after playing against him. Because he can SPAM SPAM SPAM (without following dumb energy regain antics) and all he has to do is occasionally back (which is unavoidable, I mean you can't win a 30 min game with just a Doran's) and buy a item 3004.

ExecutorDill1 votes

So what smart comeback do you have to Akali?

Her Q costs the same as shen's Q, Her Q CD is the same and decreases the same per ability rank as Shen's does. Yet she has 600 unit range on it to poke from safety and yes everyone who plays lol knows she is Energy based >:(

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Akali's Q is shit for poke. You only get good damage out of it by getting into melee range and autoing whoever you used q on (Shen's Q actually outdamages Akali's if Akali doesn't proc the mark). If Shen were also given some sort of extra requirement for increasing its damage like Akali then sure, do so, but just flat out buffing it's numbers could lead to all sorts of issues that could get Shen nerfed to hell.

LeCrash1 votes

Varus's base AD is 49... with standard AD rune and mastery he has ~70AD lvl 1. He has the lowest AD at lvl 1 for all ADCs alone side Kog, but his W does considerably less damage compare to Kog'maw's W. Will Varus's lvl 1 AD ever get buffed? item 3070 Varus item 3070

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

At least Varus gets magic damage from his w to help out with that a little. Ashe's autos still feel the weakest out of all ADC's to me.

ExecutorDill1 votes

Ikr, I get AD marks and quints and start with the W and just passive farm (with a little auto poke) until I get my Q. It save me a lot of mana I usually burn before I hit lvl 2 and I tend to win lane for more early consistent dmg.

Varus GG!

Venowolf1 votes

Can add some new into Varus passive to support his "niche" of Poke and initiation/counter initiation?

His passive can be better if you change the AS part with a MS part for example.

MVP TwiZz1 votes

Could a up of 5 or 10ms be tested once ??

hakannakah1 votes

I think a main reason he's weak is because when his ult is down, his only tool for self peel is his E. This is unlike Jinx or even Draven because one has a slow and a zoning/ root, while the other has a speed up and a knock back. Varus's E is mediocre because the slow is so little and the area can simply be dashed over by many champions. Meaning if you jump on him with his cult down, he's dead, since he can't escape from Lissandra ultimate or Hecarim either. Maybe increasing the slow on E at earlier levels or allowing for some synergy with his Q where if he hits an enemy on his E they're rooted or stunned?

ABlueQuaker3 votes

Yes, let's compare Varus and Jinx. Both immobile, both have big teamfight ultimates. Here's where it changes. Jinx has longer AA range, her E is Hard CC as opposed to a mere slow, her Poke has a slow tacked onto it as well as it not having to be channeled, and she gets a massive movement speed boost on kill. Varus on the other hand gets attack speed on kill THAT JINX GETS FROM HER Q ANYWAY.

Food for thought.

Kauljrhn1 votes

I've always like Varus quite a bit. I used to like trying to play him mid AP but eventually gave up due to fragility/lack of sustain since spell vamp didn't work on his blight and played him AD a bit. I like the interaction between attacks and his other abilities using the blight stacks. I don't usually like burst myself, but I enjoyed the sustained pattern required to burst with his blight. I'd like to see more explored in that avenue, such as a stacking AS buff from kills to let him apply them faster and/or his ultimate snaring additional enemies faster or longer according to the blight stacks consumed on them.

As it stands, he seems a bit flat if his blight and hail of arrows are just throw-aways. Adding more situational strength to his hail could allow him to better set up an ultimate (or land a Q).

PraetorPrime1 votes

I've been thinking if each of his skills had a different effect on blighted enemies Sort of like Brand). Perhaps change his W to passive.

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