Karma: The Old, The New and The Ugly

SilverSquid·9/26/2017, 3:25:17 PM·13 votes·4,113 views

So, there are two issues:

  1. Meddler announced a kit update for Karma (see here )) for early 2018
  2. Karma is in a HUGE identity crisis, that I will explore in this thread

The Karma community has suffered a great lot from the divide, that followed her rework. Arguably so did the boards, as they have to keep rereading the same arguments again and again. The upcoming changes are a chance for reconsiliation, but also for troubles. Riot has been dealt a bad hand: Focusing on current Karma will certainly piss off Old Karma fans. Going back to Old Karma might alienate the New Karma fans. And going new, healthy and innovative ways might begrudge both parties. This is even more set off by the fact, that not even all Karma fans are on the boards. More precisely: They are a vocal minority. So, finding out what the Karma community wants is challenging, yet crucial. And here is where we come in. We need to help them out. We need to come together. We need to be cohesive about what we want. We have always asked for our opinions to be heard and the time is high.

Now they finally matter!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_bs6kHLxeFo/UwTZYZBZZYI/AAAAAAAAG-U/noG0vnPmK5Q/s1600/Karma-League-of-Legends-Wallpaper-full-HD-2.jpg

Fans of Old Karma's Fans

To get together, we need to understand each other. At the core of the problem there surely lies the Old Karma community and the bewildering confusion of anyone who wonders why in the flying Zac they still are around. Karma's rework was over 4 years ago! So you might say:

https://shootthemoon88.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/get-on-with-it.png?w=665

Well, I explored this in depth in my last post. Put shortly, Karma's rework sucked because:

  • It was Riot's first rework of that scale. It lacked funding, a dedicated team and experience.
  • Karma's old visuals got binned.
  • Karma's beloved fanweapons got replaced by flavourless magic
  • Karma had a lot of unique mechanics in her kit that all got replaced by healthy copies of already existing spells.

Or in the words of Lead Champion Designer Meddler:

That prompted a rework which, overall, hasn't been particularly successful. It was done at a time when we didn't have a dedicated team for rewoks and frankly it shows in her kit. Revised Karma's a more functional, healthy champion, but also in many ways a pretty bland one, with a lot of tools on her kit that feel too familiar... (read more) ))

And this is the first part of Karma's identity crisis: The two Karmas were too different.

  • A visually unimpressive, short-ranged, fanweapon wielding, stoic diplomat with a lot of depth?
  • A visually polished, poke-ranged, hadouken throwing, unleash mage with lack of mechanics?

Old Karma fans couldn't settle with the bland New Karma and New Karma fans were glad ugly and confusing Old Karma was gone.

https://img00.deviantart.net/dc81/i/2014/235/1/f/karma_cosplay__my_spirit_is_an_unquenchable_fire_by_hanuro_sakura-d7wc6lu.jpg

New Karma is Best Karma?

Unfortunately no. Old Karma had a lot of issues, but just replacing something bad doesn't mean the new thing will be straight up better (insert political reference here). With her visuals and readability cleared up, her mechanics modernized and counterplay introduced, there came bad things with it.

#New Tools Dillude In the rework Riot retained a lot of effects (emergency heal, shield, damage, empowering mantra), but also added new ones (reveal, group protection, root, range). This just dilluded what the kit actually tried to achieve. It took away weaknesses AND added additional strenghts. What Karma was good at became muddy. How to fight her became confusing.

#Lack of Stat Direction Her mantra scales with different stats. Her RQ loves penetration, but none other skills do. Her RW is amazing with health stacking, but she gains nothing else from it. Support items pump her shielding to incredible strengths, but her other mantras just become a waste. There is no way to build Karma without leaving parts of her kit lacking.

#A Lack of Depth and Skill Expression Old Karma was about choices. Handling your charges, placing your spells wisely and tethering the right target (aka: finding the single competent ally in your team) was hard mental work. In exchange, there was nearly no mechanical depth in there, and the relaunch brought a long of improvements here, but compared to today, it was minimal. In actuality, only hitting her Q and RQ can be seen as mechanically challenging, but they are just generic skillshots. To make things worse, Karma's best skill expression, her decisions, were cut. As I pointed out above, since her mantra only scales with one item path each, choosing between mantras is as easy as deciding whether pineapple belongs on your pizza (HINT: it doesn't). Some time ago even her ability to cast shields on minions had to give. Generally, that's good, because minion denial is not a healthy mechanic. Specifically for Karma it was bad, because the ability to use minions to place your spells more optimally and shielding minions to push waves were one of the last straws Karma mains had to show they mastered her.

What I am traing to say is: Current Karma can be learned by any mechanically competent player in mere minutes. While Old Karma was unbelievably hard to wrap her head around. Again: Something that is diametrically opposed to each other, dividing the community more. Personally I love complex champions and skill expression, but I do understand if people found their home in a simpler champion and fear losing her.

http://www.lol-wallpapers.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Karma-by-%E9%99%BD%E6%98%A5-HD-Wallpaper-Fan-Art-Artwork-League-of-Legends-lol.jpg

The Ugly Truth

Karma's community is divided, her playstyle is muddied, her buildpaths all over the place and her future uncertain.

But one thing is certain:

We need to find to one another. Old and New Karma fans. Somehow we need to make common ground, so that Riot can focus on it, instead of risking they head off towards something that both sides won't like. We don't need yet another chasm in our midst.

The coming update is a chance for us all. It might be an earthquake that lets New and Old fans drift farther apart, one that might crack open the land. But if we work together, we can drift towards one another. And we can not expect Riot to do the work for us, WE need to support THEM.

You can not build bridges on your own.

Your Job

Get together. Find Karma fans online and discuss. Do not try to impose your views on them, but learn to understand theirs. Teach others what you love about her and think about what you would be willing to give up. Find things to like in the other side and highlight it. We can not be blind to one another.

We need to see both paths

and make another between!

######EDIT: I bow my head to the many pinepple lovers out there! You do you. Don't let anybody tell you what to like.

52 Comments

alekzu9/26/2017, 10:50:45 PM3 votes

I like almost everything about current Karma so I will just list the thing that I like the most and the ones I dislike.

Things that I like and don't want them gone:

  • RW heal
  • twin dragons theme( and outfit at some extent :P )
  • current E( low shield value but also MS )
  • single Mantra charge
  • W root after maintaining the tether( as a good reward but no stronger than just a root )

Things I don't like:

  • RW extra root( it gets to the point she has too much and unneeded cc )
  • RE mega shield

Old Karma didn't have a lot of things I liked but those that I did were very unique and would agree with any fan that they should be implemented. These are:

  • tether interaction with allies and enemies who pass trough it
  • shieldbomb

I don't know if this is the place but** I would like to ask people who liked the 2 mantra charges...why? Why do you think that having 2 mantra charges are better than 1?** My opinion here is that having only 1 mantra charge but one where it feel either impactful because you made that "wise" decision or you made the wrong decision and lost the fight( it kinda feels karmatic to me ) is better. By no means to show disrespect but when I watched youtube videos of classic Karma gameplay 95% of the gameplay was:

  1. press R
  2. press E
  3. press R again
  4. press Q
  5. press W if you even leveled it up I know it unfair because not everyone plays Karma the same. But can you tell me that her RQ was as good as her RE? Why people call her shieldbomb so much? That they want it back but I almost never see people write anything about her RQ...let alone her RW.

Another question I have is: Do you think her old black and white dress fit her? For someone who has the name Karma?

I would really like to see detailed explanation on these questions and have some nice discussion. If those questions were already answered by some of you I apologise as I either never really saw it or your explanation was no enough for me to comprehend.

IxtaliKing9/26/2017, 6:06:20 PM3 votes

As usual you are absolutely spot on. Your formatting with all the pictures, jokes and "flowery language" aren't an "eyesore" in the slightest. It's clear in your posts that you go into a lot of effort to keep them clean, concise, informative and entertaining, and I'd like to encourage you to continue this way (I'm sure you will anyway).

HalcyonDweller9/26/2017, 10:39:07 PM2 votes

This is solid, and a well written post. I enjoyed its entirety and I appreciate your efforts.

Thank you for posting a unifying idea instead of just one more divisive one like so many others would have.

You almost had me with the pineapple bit, well played sir/madame, well played.

(If it isn't clear yet, I agree with this. Also I think you should create a post prompting players to discuss what they like about old and new karma, it would be awesome to see such a discussion stewarded by you.)

Warden Karma9/26/2017, 6:44:51 PM2 votes

So then I'll start:


#------------------------------------------ Old Karma:------------------------------------------


I loved old Karma for being that super hard to master and challenging Champion (and because she was basically non existent; Being the hipster I am I had to pick her up). Of course the thematic of Dualism and fans quickly found their way into my heart.

Old Kit:

  • I just loved that old conic Heal. So fun. So hard. (Stop! I want to heal you!)
  • Shieldbomb
  • two Mantras
  • Duality.
  • Karma.

#------------------------------------------New Karma------------------------------------------


Well she obviously does not play like old Karma anymore, nonetheless I like her (also because of her heritage). I would have played her even if I did not played old Karma.

New Kit:

  • I guess I got used to her new Q and I like it, because its nearly the only skillexpression.
  • I always found that her tether looked like that it granted hpreg. So yeah, I like the new RW (the one that did more damage with R was better than super root though)
  • I think it was a good idea to give the slow and ms of her tether to her Q and E.

I do not need:

  • The long range poke.
  • The W root. Especially not the super root.
  • Bland to use trinity Identity.
  • That "innate" she currently has an innate.

#------------------------------------------I wish for:------------------------------------------


  • A new thematic Passive, demanding to be mastered.
  • The Duality theme (Mantra grants (also) opposite power)
  • A supportive Battlemage.
  • with a pinch of Karma.
  • A conic Q^^

Uh, did I do it right?

I hope I did not forget something.

crzymdscntst9/28/2017, 6:14:11 AM2 votes

Stylistically I prefer the old Karma for the diplomat thing, it gives her a different depth. Imagine her and Swain opposed as she was in THAT role. Noxus values strength, but forced into diplomacy would be tossing Noxus upside-down, something that she as a character was supposed to be capable of.

Now as-is, she's lore-wise this generic "power-within" and "defend the meek" cliche. That's not fun. It hasn't really got this edge of enjoyable storytelling. (I think a lot of the more creative and fun lore-design has been toned down. Trundle from torchbearer of burden into DUMB TROLL RULE YOU. Janna from Zaun orphan into "Air Goddess incarnate" (Anivia's new lore overlaps.) They've made improvements to some lore, but some still needs a real thought into how it composites.

Karma gameplay-wise originally presented a diametric design. Two halves of a whole. Ying-yang may be a cliche description, but "push gives to pull" and all that does ring a very strong design. Her passive giving that "I give what I take" feel and her kit was balanced around that idea. They needed to tool around that idea and design which was core. Her tether was oddly the skill I felt most interesting to play around, since it functionally created a unique style.

Then they REALLY needed to complete overhaul her when she could no longer target wards. Two of her core tricks removed. Drop a ward, bomb it with an offensive shield for some ranged poke. (Difficult to play against, but also costed a ward and cooldown.) This was the downside of that ward targeting. However tethering a ward and using it as a guide-point was very functionally unique, allowing her to set-up her clothesline sweeps more efficiently and also creating a repositioning tool.

Her current design is so against that, it's not even funny. It's all "more for me and more for me", where she takes more for what she's taken. (That sounds confusing to read.) She gets damage and benefits for anything she's dealt and costed upon herself. She's not manipulating the enemy anymore, which was very fun to play as.

Also the fans were fun AND cool. Definitely a design that I enjoyed in games like Dynasty Warriors (Sima Yi, Zhang He and the Qiao sisters all had unique designs around how they used their fans as weapons. Specifically 4, newer versions seem to keep cutting out weapons and characters.)

Mysticman899/26/2017, 5:06:00 PM2 votes

Hawaiian pizza is delicious.

TNHA Baritone9/29/2017, 12:42:10 AM1 votes

Somethings that I'd love to see:

  • Ally Interaction for W

  • Some form of shield-bomb

  • Better defined playstyles

  • Move passive on ult and get new passive

chipndip19/26/2017, 4:32:06 PM1 votes

I kinda wish you trimmed the fat on this post. It's an eyesore, and I'm saying this because many people probably agree, but won't tell you.

Mindworm Jim9/26/2017, 10:19:57 PM1 votes

The design team describes a champion as having three pillars: gameplay, narrative, and art. So let's take a look at that.

Gameplay: One of the big barriers I've observed among Karma fans is that there isn't really a consensus on what kind of champion she's supposed to be. The most common I see referenced are Enchanter and Battle Mage. She seems to vaguely line up with Orianna and Lux but is clearly more support-oriented.

To me her most iconic actual skill is her Mantra. Without it she wouldn't be Karma, and (to me) her passive creates an easy skill-based feedback loop. More skilled players are rewarded with more Mantras. Now, the currently incarnation of this isn't ideal, but the concept is sound.

Narrative: Karma's lore describes her as an extremely strong-willed (to the point of manifesting fiery twin dragons through sheer willpower) and spiritual woman who seeks to revolutionize Ionia's spiritual practices. Specifically she is described as wanting to combine traditional spiritual practices with military strength.

Art: Her various splash arts seem to center around her being calm, peaceful, and spiritual (with Warden Karma standing out as an exception). Two of her skins depict her meditating (three if you count the classic, although it's not quite clear what she's doing there), and two depict her as a semi-divine spirit.

I'm not really sure how helpful this was. Karma is clearly a spiritual individual, but I'm not sure how that leads to a coherent kit.

Ahris9/27/2017, 12:09:05 AM1 votes

I got a karma skin from chest so looking forward in playing her after her changes.

Nasuuna9/27/2017, 10:29:11 PM1 votes

Bottom line, I want the shield bomb back.

If the shield itself has to suffer for it so be it.

if they want a speed boost in her kit still add it to her w where allies move fast towards the leashed target

SirTeemoMushroom9/26/2017, 3:28:53 PM1 votes

im vegan , kappa. eh... in my opinion karma was always a support type champion with strong abilities and CC and shields .. and self heals .. and more anyway ! she is good going against champions like pantheon etc.. because she counters them hard ! :)