What we can Learn from Doomfist (Overwatch) to modernize Vi's kit without using a lot of Resourcess

DeadUnborn··1 votes·637 views

Before the downvote train begins, let me start by saying that I used to play Vi tons and she is super fun. Realistically speaking however, she can't keep up with modern champions because everyone is so mobile now. She only really interacts with her Q and ult (E you just auto attack reset). What I propose is to mesh change her W and E to modernize her. Taking Doomfist as inspiration:

New W:

  • Passives removes

  • When activated, Vi empowers her next basic attack (it can use E's current animation). When the attack lands, the enemy hit will be displaced a short distance (think slightly further than Jayce's Thundering Blow). The enemy struck will have Denting Blow's (Vi current W) debuff applied to them; if the enemy hits terrain or another enemy champion, they take extra damage

New E:

  • Cast range is somewhat short, but works like Cassio's W and can't be cast right in front of you

  • When cast, Vi wind up for a brief moment (think Urgot's E) after which she lunges forward to target location, slamming the ground and knocking up enemies in a small cone in front of her for a short time (think around .5 seconds)

EDIT: If the CC is too overbearing then the E could slow instead of knocking up and the W could displace only if you dealt say, at least 15% of the target's max health with the empowered attack or something like that

29 Comments

IcyPepper1 votes

Before the downvote train begins

dude, chill. Don't worry about people disagreeing with you. Starting your post like that just makes me worry.

DeadUnborn1 votes

about what? Is just that people usually assume if you ask for change on a champ it means you hate it

MrHaZeYo1 votes

That would break her.

DeadUnborn1 votes

Not sure. Keep in mind many things such as CDs, distances and damage output can be adjusted. The only conceivable way in which she would be broken with my proposal is that she becomes a tank, rather than a damage dealer. If that was the case then W could be changed to displace the enemy based on damage dealt to it, up to a cap

MrHaZeYo1 votes

She would most definitely be a tank. She'd have 4 forms of CC in her kit. You're trying to put to much CC in her kit.

DeadUnborn1 votes

That is a possibility I admit. I If the CC was too overbearing then the E could slow instead of knocking up and as I told you maybe W would only displace if you dealt say, at least 15% of the target's max health with the empowered attack or something like that

MrHaZeYo1 votes

A slow is still CC lol. How would you get away from Vi? She already has her Q into Ult or Ult into Q, you add two CCs then her ganks after 6 will be basically unavoidable. Not very healthy.

I actually don't think she's in a awful state now, she's basically been a A tier jungler for a few years now, no better or worse. Plus with Stoneplate now she gains more resistances that she needs after she blows her CDs. She's good in Solo Q but not as great in pro play for whatever reason.

DeadUnborn1 votes

from level 1 to 5 she won't have the damage to knock you back with W. Her E as I told you can't be cast in front of her, has a wind-up and the cone would be small (also I never said how much slow her E would apply, it could be 30% for .75 seconds or something like that). Hence her Q and E can be dodged until level 6. after 6 she has her ult and Q combo still, but it wouldn't chain up with her E because of the wind up and range constraints. You are also not taking into account she would lose a lot of "easy damage" because she doesn't have staking W passive which also gives attack speed nor her E 2 ammo combo

Sure, she is playable, but at least from my experience, she isn't played at all anymore, and she is very one dimensional

ZephyrDrake2 votes

{quoted}

from level 1 to 5 she won't have the damage to knock you back with W. Her E as I told you can't be cast in front of her, has a wind-up and the cone would be small (also I never said how much slow her E would apply, it could be 30% for .75 seconds or something like that). Hence her Q and E can be dodged until level 6. after 6 she has her ult and Q combo still, but it wouldn't chain up with her E because of the wind up and range constraints. You are also not taking into account she would lose a lot of "easy damage" because she doesn't have staking W passive which also gives attack speed nor her E 2 ammo combo

Sure, she is playable, but at least from my experience, she isn't played at all anymore, and she is very one dimensional

so? sorry but your idea is just "let's make Vi as broken as possible but "it's ok all you need to do is dodge her!" that is like saying "let's give an ability 1000000000000 true damage but make it insanely predictable and slow! it's not broken just dodge it!"

DeadUnborn1 votes

We have chogath, darius and garen already :). If you don't like it that is fine. I wrote this post to discuss the idea, not fight with people

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

We have chogath, darius and garen already :). If you don't like it that is fine. I wrote this post to discuss the idea, not fight with people

none of those champions do that much true damage, not even close. Your idea is bad. Simple as that. You wrote this post to do nothing but break Vi for no reason simple as that.

DeadUnborn1 votes

hmmmm, I'd rather you counter argue my arguments (i.e: why my most recent proposal wouldn't work in your eyes). For reference Chogath can one shot a 2600 health target easily, but that is beside the point I guess

But you uncovered me, I'm actually an evil maniac that wants to sway Riot into not only breaking Vi, but the entire roster

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

hmmmm, I'd rather you counter argue my arguments (i.e: why my most recent proposal wouldn't work in your eyes). For reference Chogath can one shot a 2600 health target easily, but that is beside the point I guess

But you uncovered me, I'm actually an evil maniac that wants to sway Riot into not only breaking Vi, but the entire roster

"easily" i have yet to see a single chogath do that but if you say so

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_I6yLu1xXg

12:26

1556 true damage HP is not 2600. Once again i have yet to see a single Chogath actually do the damage you say he does

DeadUnborn1 votes

That was orianas max health and cho gath didnt have a stone plate. If you cant do basic math that is really not my problem

zlumpy1 votes

Isn't doomfist only viable because his punch hit box is like 3x the size it should be? Making it impossible to miss a punch isn't a good way to balance.

DeadUnborn1 votes

pfff wouldn't know. I only play Overwatch casually. I referenced Doomfist because I took the wall slam and new E ability ideas from his kit

zlumpy1 votes

I'm also only casual in that game. From what I saw though they gave him lots of immediate damage and massive hitboxes to make him feel good and be easier to play. Tbh I wouldn't be surprised if they changed his numbers and hit detection but gave him more speed on foot or something.

Anyway I think the best change vi could get would to make her ult apply grounding right as it connects so people can't just nope your engage and make you have to leave or just horribly mis positioned. The whole point of the skill is to detain one person and she has to put herself in harmsway to do it.

DeadUnborn1 votes

What I was aiming for was making Vi more fun to play, not just increase her win rate. I think it is fair that the opponent can dash while you lunge at them, considered they can't dodge the ability

zlumpy1 votes

But they can dodge the ability. A flash/dash/decoy at the last second will pretty much just negate her ult entirely.

DeadUnborn1 votes

not many champions can do that. I don't know what you refer by flashing, never ehard of this

zlumpy1 votes

The summoner spell flash that everyone can use? The little yellow button that lets you nope stuff.

DeadUnborn1 votes

wouldn't vi just follow you to your new location?

zlumpy1 votes

Not if you flash as her ult connects. Then she just whifs the hit but is now out of position.

Shonjl1 votes

She is meant to be an engage bruiser. She has the damage to murder who her target is if you let her, and she is meant to absorb some punishment easy enough.

All I can say is Rito better not gut her damage, she is no different than any other brusier. CC and damage, not as much CC or impossible to kill as a tank, not as much damage as a pure damage champ.

DeadUnborn1 votes

Yeah she should definitely always be damage oriented. as I wrote below her CC could be tied to her damage output

Shonjl1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah she should definitely always be damage oriented. as I wrote below her CC could be tied to her damage output

I personally think Vi should NOT BE TOUCHED. She is fine as she is. She has clear strengths and weaknesses.

Not everything has to be busted crap like Lee Sin after all which has a solution to everything.

If she misses her Q, that is the perfect time to go in on her, if she is ulting on someone, surround and kill her, she just dived headlong in alone and even tanky she can be popped before her team shows up, even if its just in 1 second. Vi can't survive 5 people hitting her no matter what she builds.

Don't be alone since Vi basically plays as both engager and an assassin. Don't have an auto attack fight with her since she will win due to %max health passive and she breaks armor, doing more damage afterwords.

While she can burst a squishy, she can't deal with burst herself, moreso if its a bruiser. She loves sustained fights where she can keep popping off her passive. So if you can jump on her and hit her really hard, she will run away since she can't do the same to you. After she basically does her Q auto E combo, that is all her burst and she is just going to auto you basically, if you outdamage it hard, she loses. And plenty of champs can do more damage than that.

I think Vi is fine where she is, she is always meta since she can always work with anything, and play just about any way. You can play her pure tank, you can play her heavily auto based, you can player her bruiser, you can player her assassin. You can play her as engage, you can player her as protection. You can player her basically every way there is in the game. One game I will do her typical item 3078 into bruiser build, the next I would go full damage. Another I will go pure auto attack with item 1419 and LS with item 3812 and item 3072

That is why Vi is fun. You can do whatever you want on her and it all can work.

DeadUnborn1 votes

Realistically it will be at least two years before Riot even considers changing her (a lot of other champs need it way more). The problem with Vi isn't that she is underpowered or that she doesn't have a fun kit. The problem is she is very one dimensional and she only interacts with her environment via Q until she gets ult; she is very one dimensional and gets old for most people after some time, which is why her play rate is so low

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