Vayne %HP True Damage change to %BonusHP or Magic Damage

Drunken Yasuo·Jul 15, 2015·13 votes·1,550 views

http://boards.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-en/mtK14b8A-change-vaynes-w-to-bonushp-damage-or-magic-damage

20 Comments

LaughingMan11Jul 15, 20155 votes

I think what the OP means is Vaynes Silver Bolts, when it procs it deals % HP based true damage, and that changing it to do either strait HP % damage as physical or turn it into HP% as magic damage because there really isnt any counter to Vayne's Silver Bolts, the counter to true damage is build more HP, and with Vayne, if you build more HP to counter her true damage, she does more damage because it scales with HP, leaving you in an endless loop of Vayne wins.

Personally, i dont care if Vayne has true damage, but it should be changed to flat true damage, that went up with skill level, I'd be okay with that. But i feel that if shes going to have % HP damage, it shouldn't be true damage, again because HP% True damage really doesnt have counter play.

Loken StoneheartJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I think what the OP means is Vaynes Silver Bolts, when it procs it deals % HP based true damage, and that changing it to do either strait HP % damage as physical or turn it into HP% as magic damage because there really isnt any counter to Vayne's Silver Bolts, the counter to true damage is build more HP, and with Vayne, if you build more HP to counter her true damage, she does more damage because it scales with HP, leaving you in an endless loop of Vayne wins.

Personally, i dont care if Vayne has true damage, but it should be changed to flat true damage, that went up with skill level, I'd be okay with that. But i feel that if shes going to have % HP damage, it shouldn't be true damage, again because HP% True damage really doesnt have counter play.

Attack speed slows. Forcing her to switch targets (its not every AA, its every three). Killing the ADC who dives into your team to try to kill you by dropping a damn pink ward once and a while. Seriously. They're free now. It is NOT hard to kill her if people would just upgrade their trinkets.

LaughingMan11Jul 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Loken Stoneheart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6L603odV,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-07-15T20:36:38.406+0000)

Attack speed slows. Forcing her to switch targets (its not every AA, its every three). Killing the ADC who dives into your team to try to kill you by dropping a damn pink ward once and a while. Seriously. They're free now. It is NOT hard to kill her if people would just upgrade their trinkets.

Attack speed slows arent necessarily a counter to Vayne as it is to most any ADC, and its not that its hard to kill Vayne, so im not really complaining about Vayne as a whole. But I do think there should be a direct counter to her Silver Bolts other than not getting hit. I dont care if its True Damage, I dont care if its HP% damage, but i do care that its both.

Loken StoneheartJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Attack speed slows arent necessarily a counter to Vayne as it is to most any ADC, and its not that its hard to kill Vayne, so im not really complaining about Vayne as a whole. But I do think there should be a direct counter to her Silver Bolts other than not getting hit. I dont care if its True Damage, I dont care if its HP% damage, but i do care that its both.

MOST Adcs have spells to fall back on. Vayne in particular only has autoattacks. Vayne really isn't a problem, and unless you're ready to give her some serious buffs everywhere else, we can't really just go an nerf her bread and butter, can we?

LaughingMan11Jul 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Loken Stoneheart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6L603odV,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-15T22:56:00.285+0000)

MOST Adcs have spells to fall back on. Vayne in particular only has autoattacks. Vayne really isn't a problem, and unless you're ready to give her some serious buffs everywhere else, we can't really just go an nerf her bread and butter, can we?

Like I said in my first post, they dont have to remove the true damage, hell they can buff it for all i care, as long as it isnt both HP% and True Damage. I just dont think any champion, not just vayne, should have any source of damage that isnt counterable.

Loken StoneheartJul 16, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Like I said in my first post, they dont have to remove the true damage, hell they can buff it for all i care, as long as it isnt both HP% and True Damage. I just dont think any champion, not just vayne, should have any source of damage that isnt counterable.

Not being %HP and True damage IS a nerf. Its a horrendous nerf. The only way to make up for removing that combo is to buff the numbers to such a point that its more toxic anyways.

LaughingMan11Jul 16, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Loken Stoneheart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6L603odV,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-16T05:25:50.539+0000)

Not being %HP and True damage IS a nerf. Its a horrendous nerf. The only way to make up for removing that combo is to buff the numbers to such a point that its more toxic anyways.

All in all, if they buffed the true damage to be a flat rate some where between 2500 and 3000 HP, where most people end up that arent tanks now. It would definitely need tweaking to make sure it has a steady progression, but it really wouldnt be terribly hard to make it flat and still keep the approximate usefulness it has now.

DomainSpecificJul 15, 20151 votes

The worst part is that is %HP true damage, but it also has a base damage. Only way to counter her is the 2 AS slow items

IcyPepperJul 15, 20153 votes

Vayne is probably the only case to ever have %hp true damage, but she does have specific counterplay

Contrary to popular belief, most of her damage is actually physical. This is for a few reasons (her W's true damage is monstrous late-game, for one). Armor is effective against her, just not as effective as other adc's. In fact, most Vaynes will buy a LW somewhere in their build to take advantage of this.

But like other adc's, she has her weaknesses. Since she is completely aa reliant, once you're out of her range (including tumble's slight mobility), she can't touch you. No poke. Jinx can poke, Caitlyn can poke, COrki and Ezreal can poke, Vayne cannot do anything outside her aa range without tumbling and closing the gap. Still frustrating for melee champions, but Vayne isn't the only offender in that regard.

However, Vayne is weak to certain items specifically because of her aa reliance, and coincidentally all these items give armor which help mitigate her physical damage. item 3143 item 3110 item 3075 . Because of her aa reliance, lowering her AS lowers her dps significantly since she cannot throw out poke spells like other adcs, and it will lower her physical and true damage overall over time.

For support-like champions (can be others, I guess, but it's mostly a support item), item 3222 is not a bad item to have either. If an ally gets condemned into a wall, use the active to remove the stun and heal them for 150 + 10% of their maximum health (which should negate one Vayne W proc, probably done during the stun, which can turn the tides if you play your cards right).

chide da junglerJul 15, 20154 votes

She doesn't too much damage without building AD.

Once she has botrk she can 1v1 anyone because 'mechanics' Riot please

LaowPingJul 15, 20151 votes

Never seen a vayne not building AD so I'm not sure what you're referring to.

RueianJul 15, 20152 votes

Most vaynes do not prioritizes AD like normal ADCs

You rush item 3153 item 3046

Celeste BenalJul 15, 20152 votes

Now-a-days I see her with item 3930 or item 3931 and item 3153 .

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

even more so, its just her prioritizing attack speed.

LaowPingJul 15, 20152 votes

The first two Items are attack speed but BORTK is still good AD and after those two items it's AD from there. Her damage is decent at the two item spike but she needs full build to delete people.

LilxPaprikaJul 15, 20151 votes

If you want to nerf something no need to switch it entirely just make so it does say 75% true damage. Or true damage up to a maximum value. Which might scale per level. 800 DMG crit.. With true damage cap at like 500 at level 18.

Or make it so only like 20% of crits can go through or that tumble can't stack with it etc.

Right now everything works with it and with her attack speed being the highest the silver bolts so called " warning " is a bad joke.

Especially seeing as how she's very mobile no use running away.

SatedCancerJul 15, 20151 votes

item 3153 item 3931 item 3046 item 3006 item 3102 item 3026 Once i got this build no matter how far behind we won every team fight an the game.

Loken StoneheartJul 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=PulseFeed Ezreal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6L603odV,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-07-15T20:51:27.762+0000)

Once i got this build no matter how far behind we won every team fight an the game.

They fucked up by letting you get 20 some kills/assists, and not building the trinity of ADC-screwing tank items. With only 10% lifesteal, you kill yourself on thornmail.

SatedCancerJul 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Loken Stoneheart,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6L603odV,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-07-15T20:56:17.598+0000)

They fucked up by letting you get 20 some kills/assists, and not building the trinity of ADC-screwing tank items. With only 10% lifesteal, you kill yourself on thornmail.

nope sated devourer + double mr from banshee/ga made me immune to thornmail pretty much, also i was jungle vayne or if i was lane vayne you get kill assists on jungle monsters, i also only ran sated if my jungler wasnt playing sated so i could get all dragons+rift scuttler. also thornmail hurts other adcs alot, they build up to 400-500 ad. while this build only has max 200 ad if that and is mostly on-hit type build with your W procing every 2 aa + the magic damage from devourer you dont do much AA damage to reflect back at you.

Loken StoneheartJul 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=PulseFeed Ezreal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6L603odV,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-07-15T21:12:06.399+0000)

nope sated devourer + double mr from banshee/ga made me immune to thornmail pretty much, also i was jungle vayne or if i was lane vayne you get kill assists on jungle monsters, i also only ran sated if my jungler wasnt playing sated so i could get all dragons+rift scuttler. also thornmail hurts other adcs alot, they build up to 400-500 ad. while this build only has max 200 ad if that and is mostly on-hit type build with your W procing every 2 aa + the magic damage from devourer you dont do much AA damage to reflect back at you.

I'm just saying, if that team had half a brain, you wouldn't succeed like that. There are plenty of Vayne counters, just like most other ADCs, she's fairly balanced-- if she's misbalanced at all, its because devourer is a completely busted item that needs reverted.