Understanding manaless champions

CerealBoxOfDoom··2 votes·475 views

Riot does not do anything as a sort of "perfect science" or whatever. I don't know what that will look like but It means the pattern may break so to speak

but look at any given resource or lack therof and you will find certain weaknesses

I will skip mana champions as there are a lot of these

But then there are resourceless champions and energy champions etc.

Of course those with any resource at all are going to be treated differently than completely resourceless but there's a price to be paid regardless.

But now I'm going to just focus on resourceless because they are the easiest to understand and from them you can derive how the others work.

resourceless champions (they have nothing to actively spend per se)

Riven Garen Katarina

these are the only 4 with nothing whatsoever to manage aside from cooldowns. You'll probably notice that these are much older designs than most.

Gnar Yasuo

these have nothing to spend but have something to use or lose to either decay or damage or whatever.

I'll start by saying that riven should, for the most part, be considered her own category, she is an old design and tends to almost be an exception though she really isn't.

Now, notice how the first three are actually kindof bad pushers. Very bad in fact but they all can eventually push a lane if they pour cooldowns into it. But all 3 have either an execute or just something to clean up with. All three have sub par CC abilities, all 3 are melee with some sort of damage resistance ability. All 3 tend to have a rough time teamfighting phase when they try to be aggressive on their own for the most part though they all have their moments and must still be taken seriously. Mostly because of short range. Riven does have a long range execute.

Something they have in common with group 2 is that they are all also only slightly mobile or even nonmoble unless a certain condition is met. Garen even gets slowed under some conditions.

These champs when played effectively will typically need to focus on engaging the enemy. Even garen has a very slow acting passive heal that discourages engages but encourages the enemy to engage him regardless. In a sense this also encourages engagement if he is staying in experience range of minions or whatever.

But then we have stuff like energy champs

LeeSin Shen Zed Akali Kennen

these champs often need 2 abilities up to really fight you and aren't the best lane pushers unless they want to waste resources. They also lose more by playing passively than they do by playing aggressively energywise. They tend to have erratic but existing windows of opportunities to counterplay but you must learn when this is for each one. when their ult is down it tends to be a green light for dealing with them. akali with less than 3 ult charges is not exactly the biggest threat on the rift even.

Again none of these are very good pushers. Zed kindof can... but not that well and he needs his whole kit to do so effectively. They all farm a bit better than the complete manaless champs but all either struggle to cs in extreme situations like under tower or in teamfights or they just can't push a lane to save their lives without itemizing for it.

Look for more patterns. You will notice that there are patterns in when the manaless champ was released vs what their weakness is too

17 Comments

Ozag the Mighty2 votes

You forgot renekton

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ozag the Mighty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6I3mzReF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-06-25T00:56:31.280+0000)

You forgot renekton

renekton spends rage/fury if I'm not mistaken. If he has a certain amount he consumes it on certain abilities.

Support Bοt3 votes

Fury only makes abilities stronger. Still free.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nidalee Tank,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6I3mzReF,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-25T01:05:22.984+0000)

Fury only makes abilities stronger. Still free.

are you suggesting they'd function no differently without the enhanced abilities? Renekton would be trash without his enhanced abilities

Ozag the Mighty1 votes

Well so does Gnar...just sayin

Death by Glamour1 votes

Strangely you miss out vlad

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ace 1n your hole,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6I3mzReF,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-06-25T00:57:39.173+0000)

Strangely you miss out vlad

abilities cost hp

I didn't make a complete list. There are a lot of manaless champs but you should categorize them to try and understand them fully. Starting with the absolute resourceless.

Katarina Garen Renekton Riven Rengar Tryndamere Gnar Elise Akali Aatrox Evelynn Nidalee Mordekaiser DrMundo LeeSin Shen Rumble RekSai Swain Zac Vladimir Yasuo Zed Jayce Kassadin Lissandra Xerath

I included champs with significant mana regen abilities because they too suffer from versions of the same weaknesses

TehNACHO1 votes

The reason why the others are calling out your misses is because you are calling out "manaless" champions, not "resourceless" champions.

Vlad for example falls under the former, not the latter. The others are perfectly right for calling those out because you're using the wrong term in your title.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

{quoted}

The reason why the others are calling out your misses is because you are calling out "manaless" champions, not "resourceless" champions.

Vlad for example falls under the former, not the latter. The others are perfectly right for calling those out because you're using the wrong term in your title.

not if they actually read my post

TehNACHO1 votes

Sure, you could hold that over everyone's heads. One's title does make the impression on readers though.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

{quoted}

Sure, you could hold that over everyone's heads. One's title does make the impression on readers though.

people should maybe ask themselves why I left out over half the manaless champs lol

TehNACHO1 votes

Maybe get your head out of your ass while you're at it.

Stop acting pretentious. You made a mistake and people are responding to it in the appropriate manner. Roll with it instead of trying to correct them.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

{quoted}

Maybe get your head out of your ass while you're at it.

Stop acting pretentious. You made a mistake and people are responding to it in the appropriate manner. Roll with it instead of trying to correct them.

I didn't make any mistake. I didn't leave over half the manaless champs out of my nonexistent list nor did I forget renekton specifically off my nonexistent list. What am I supposed to roll with? A bunch of people who clearly didn't even read?

zlumpy1 votes

What about rumble and shyvana?

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

{quoted}

What about rumble and shyvana?

rumble is manaless but manages a resource shyvanna also has a resource to spend even if on just one ability.

Wolfram Oxford1 votes

"these champs often need 2 abilities up to really fight you and aren't the best lane pushers unless they want to waste resources. They also lose more by playing passively than they do by playing aggressively energywise. They tend to have erratic but existing windows of opportunities to counterplay but you must learn when this is for each one. when their ult is down it tends to be a green light for dealing with them. akali with less than 3 ult charges is not exactly the biggest threat on the rift even." - CerealBoxOfDoom

A lot of champions need more than one ability to clear a wave.

They actually don't lose more by playing passively, a lot of champions need to play passive at most parts in the game. The only difference is the listed champions, but pretty much like a lot of champions, are good at playing offensive.

Pretty much all champions have time windows in which you can play aggressively against them.

All champions are more vulnerable without an ultimate.

CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wolfram Oxford,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6I3mzReF,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-06-25T14:36:46.687+0000)

"these champs often need 2 abilities up to really fight you and aren't the best lane pushers unless they want to waste resources. They also lose more by playing passively than they do by playing aggressively energywise. They tend to have erratic but existing windows of opportunities to counterplay but you must learn when this is for each one. when their ult is down it tends to be a green light for dealing with them. akali with less than 3 ult charges is not exactly the biggest threat on the rift even." - CerealBoxOfDoom

A lot of champions need more than one ability to clear a wave.

They actually don't lose more by playing passively, a lot of champions need to play passive at most parts in the game. The only difference is the listed champions, but pretty much like a lot of champions, are good at playing offensive.

Pretty much all champions have time windows in which you can play aggressively against them.

All champions are more vulnerable without an ultimate.

correct but on these champs, the energy champs, it goes to a new extreme

use two abilities on a mana champ and then again later you can do it a third time usually and still be able to finish off your combo. On someone like zed it actually takes a big chunk of your resource if you don't hit anything. As for the ults,

Akali without her ult or even with missing charges is just crippled against a competent team zed without his ult is just another melee carry type to be locked down and blown up if he tries to go in. shen without his ult is not everywhere on the map. He's just a slowpushing tank with a really annoying W... and E... and Q... and passive kennen without his ult is just a pokey thing that can't really even afford to use 2 of his abilities half the time. lee is a bit different from the others but without his ult if he gets wrecked he can't contribute much after that just like the others.

A lot of champs have these problems for various reasons but I'm looking at consistant patterns among particular champion types.

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