Remove Ekko's W Passive

Omiwom·Jun 13, 2015·32 votes·3,422 views

Let's face facts. This kid has everything. Damage, mobility, poke, hard cc, soft cc, safety. All of these are not healthy when crammed onto an assassin. He's not op, but it's such a chore to play against him because there's just too much in his kit to keep track of.

The part of his kit that makes the least sense is his W passive. It needs to go. It's confusing to his identity. Is he an auto attacker or a mage? It also has no connection with his theme. If he desperately needs the damage this provides for his kit, add it somewhere else such as on his spells. Don't make a conditional seperate passive. It's just messy and feels bad.

48 Comments

jDVL20eCYsJun 13, 20158 votes

no...

Davy CrockettJun 13, 20151 votes

say goodbye to an easy farming tool.

jDVL20eCYsJun 14, 20151 votes

easy? who needs it for last hitting.. its not his farm tool. then complain about zed or kassadin instead. .

ChaoticPineconeJun 13, 20154 votes

But most of his burst/assassination potential comes from his W passive and his regular passive. His Q and E are pathetic, his W does no damage, his Ult is telegraphed enough to justify such a high scaling (though i dont like the heal).

If they take away the W passive, theyd need to increase his Q or E damage, allowing for more Poke and Waveclear (Q) or more of a powerspike after Lich Bane (E). His passive indicates he is an autoattacking Assassin, like Diana. The shield and Heal need to be tuned, but he needs the W damage.

at the moment, he has too much safety for an assassin. take away the safety, not the assassin part of his kit.

TheRakkunJun 14, 20152 votes

I just wish they'd tack his W passive onto his normal passive, remove the shielding from his W and remove the heal from his ult, (Hell make it a debuff cleanse instead, that's what it looked more like in the video, he stopped bleeding but retained the broken arm) nerfs his safety and makes his passives more clear.

masterdragon481Jun 14, 20151 votes

I don't understand why people would prefer having his W passive tacked onto his normal passive; it literally changes nothing. Oh, wait, I lied. You should prefer it the way it is now, because he doesn't get it until level 2 or 3, buying you some time where you don't have to worry about it.

The shield needs a nerf, but I think it is fair to have it; the W is insanely hard to place well and without a shield (or some sort of benefit) for walking through it (I mean without stunning someone), the ability would be a mana drain more than anything else.

I think they heal on his ultimate is one of the defining parts of the character, but I could definitely see it getting nerfed without too much of a problem.

TheRakkunJun 14, 20151 votes

It's for clarity's sake mainly, it's not like you're going to yet dropped to 30% HP before he hits level two anyway, the heal on his ultimate is blatantly overpowered, I don't care if it's part of his character. His W is MEANT to be hard to place, rewarding him for messing up still with a massive shield is just making it ok for him to miss an ability while other champs get no such luck, missing an ability is MEANT to be a mana drain.

RaptameiSep 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But most of his burst/assassination potential comes from his W passive and his regular passive.

Well that's too bad then. Safety or damage - choose one.

DoFrJun 13, 20153 votes

he speaks the truth though, ekko has no need for execution if he already got the safety

Raid Boss MordeJun 14, 20152 votes

Meanwhile Zed. Execution and safety....

bradJun 14, 20153 votes

"hes not op" people honestly believe this i guess ill just take this fucker into ranked and get free elo whatever dude yeah ekko isnt op please buff

jDVL20eCYsJun 14, 20151 votes

Sure freelo sure sure sure

gr8artistJun 13, 20152 votes

I too think it's a little confusing to have the extra passives, but I tend to prefer simpler champs (one of the areas I think League did better than DotA), so I know I'm in the minority. If you want him to have the execution damage, why not tack it on to his normal passive? Just have his passive's effect(s) (damage, or all 3 aspects) increased against low-health targets. Or, give him extra damage against people in his W's bubble (or people stunned by it), so that the passive effect is actually tied to the active effect.

Personally, I'd like to see the shield removed. I love it, but I don't think it makes sense with the "chronomancy" theme.

GG Noob TeamJun 13, 20152 votes

I have the same thoughts about it. You cannot deal with him at this point, because he has ult that gives him back about 40% of his hp, really long stun and a great shield. With that passive on W even xin zhao cannot stand a chance against this shitty champion. He brings you to 50%, use ult, and murder you if you are under 30% with about 60% hp left. This is nonsense, its impossible to deal with him on ANY CHAMPION. Even then, if you will be winning, he just could simply RUN AWAY from you, because how ridiculous his passive is, giving him 50%+ ms boost and slow you by 50%, THIS IS INSANE. Impossible to chase him, even if you have a dash every 3 sec, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE

DaedricTerror13Sep 9, 20151 votes

Well said.

KeevalroyJun 13, 20152 votes

He's still bullshit Riot. He's gonna need a lot more shaved off of his overloaded kit.

A Miss FortuneJun 14, 20152 votes

I personally don't think Ekko is overpowered, it's just that he has too much in his kit and he's viable in every role, in every team comp, and against every team comp. You can play him Top, Mid, Jungle, or Support and do just fine as he has what's necessary to fulfill those roles. It's not that he's overpowered it's that he's overloaded like Thresh.

Thresh is a great example to compare Ekko to, Thresh does everything you want a Support to do and he dominates as one of the best Supports. He has hard, semi-reliable crowd control, some damage, and his lantern can make huge plays, plus on top of all of that he can become a massive tank. There isn't a reason to not pick Thresh because even supports like Morgana or Leona couldn't fully counter him.

jDVL20eCYsJun 14, 20151 votes

Ekko support don't work better then rengar and fizz support :)

BârdJun 14, 20152 votes

Without the W passive, the skill is useless.

I Am FlorgJun 14, 20152 votes

Ekko might need a little tuning but that would be way too big of a nerf. They would have to raise all his other damage values.

Toothierosprey3Jun 14, 20152 votes

It's almost like Zed, except Ekko has mana and less aoe damage.

Aych PiiJun 14, 20152 votes

sigh...

Nerfs on this patch, more nerfs slated for the next one, and people are still determined to fine their own personal way to destroy this champion.

I get what you're saying, and it really doesn't make much sense with his background, but he'd need some serious compensation buffs if it were removed. It's the main thing that allows him to thrive in extended fights like he does (Having no other source of DPS un-gated by CDs), which was meant to be a core part of his identity.

DaedricTerror13Sep 9, 20151 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq2kCC2YIdo

OP champion to this day, you are a fool.

Aych PiiSep 11, 20152 votes

Eh...

As an AP assassin, he's decent I guess. He's amazing when the enemy team doesn't respect his tools and garbage when they do, which I guess kinda evens out to make him alright. He's unreliable as shit though and his outplay potential relies entirely on your opponents misplaying since he's so goddamn telegraphed. There's a reason the pros play primarily tank Ekko.

If that's not enough for you, here: http://puu.sh/k7qse.jpg Calling him overpowered is laughable, he was hardly strong on release and he's only been nerfed since. Don't know why you chose now to respond to a comment I made three months ago, but oh well.

DeynaTaggerungJun 13, 20151 votes

When looking over Ekko's kit this is also what stood out to me as the most out of place thing. It a) has nothing to do with what his w does b) Gives ekko some tankbusting ability (doesn't he already do tons of damage on squishies?).

Since it doesn't fit themetically it feels just kind of like a freebie "hey let's give ekko more kill potential" He already has an auto-attack based passive that is really nice so just throwing on more is part of why people get frustrated at overloaded champions.

General KeithJun 13, 20151 votes

What they should do is rework the passive to look something like this:

Passive: Enemies within Parallel Convergence's bubble take X% increased damage from Ekko.

AnonagonJun 13, 20151 votes

It could easily be combined with his normal passive, simply making the proc be stronger based on enemy's missing hp

though I personally have a bigger grudge with his ultimate's damage, which makes no thematic sense, goes against riot's claims that Ekko isn't supposed to burst, and is pretty uncounterable since you can't see the clone if you can't see Ekko. Its so powerful that it basically prevents melees for fighting Ekko for more than 4 seconds, because if you don't kill him in 4 seconds he will nuke you for 1000 while regaining all the health you took from him. Its damage should be piss poor.

TheRakkunJun 14, 20151 votes

I don't mind the burst, it's what makes him an assassin, but fuck that heal with everything you have that's sharp, so many duels are lost just because he manages to pop that ult and heal everything.

AnonagonJun 14, 20155 votes

A 1.3 ratio is blatantly overpowered on a champion that Riot has said was designed not to burst.

jDVL20eCYsJun 14, 20151 votes

And then you almost never see him get it of on squssies. And it gets harder the later the game go. Diana just 5 times better at bursting

MannysmokerJun 14, 20151 votes

How about this guy Malzahar has the same 1.3 ratio on ult..

AnonagonJun 14, 20151 votes

malzahar does it over 2.5 seconds malzahar is immobile malzahar is supposed to be able to 100-0 people in that 2.5 seconds

MuchashcaJun 14, 20151 votes

Ekko's is aoe, instant, with longer range, and heals. Malz supresses himself, is interrupted by everything in the game, with short range, and on only one person.

How can you even try to compare those two?

IcyPepperSep 9, 20151 votes

One is on a delay, so an opponent can avoid it, while the other is point and click.

Both are powerful in their own respect.

KONO RUBICK DASep 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

A 1.3 ratio is blatantly overpowered on a champion that Riot has said was designed not to burst.

what ratio are you talking about?

masterdragon481Jun 14, 20151 votes

I agree, the ultimate does more damage than malzahar's suppression, and Ekko does it in AOE. I was shocked when they released the champion without a mana cost on this ability to boot (though that will be changing next patch). If it has a mana cost, I think it will be easier to justify the ability.....although I still wouldn't be against dropping the damage somewhat. I also think that the heal could take a nerf as well, but seeing as to how its one of the defining characteristics of the champion, I don't think it will get removed.

I don't necessarily think the ultimate is completely overpowered because where it is going to be is telegraphed visually, and if you are paying attention, you even know where it will be in 4 seconds. It isn't like a malphite ulti (or something like that), which has very little warning. With the kind of information you have about the ability, taking damage requires either bad position on your teams part, or very good positioning on the part of your opponents. If you force Ekko to use the ability defensively (he should be a priority target as an assassin) then the damage is irrelevant anyway. If your vision control is poor enough that you can't see ekko and he is allow to begin a fight with his ultimate............I don't really know what to tell you. There are many champions that punish pushing without vision and EVERY assassin falls into that category.

Strictly against melee champions; yea this ultimate is strong. I can only say see how it works after the mana cost is added? It should restrict him a little more. I just can't justify taking away the damage on an ability so heavily telegraphed. I don't know the range of the AOE, but that is something that perhaps could be looked at if they were to nerf it a second time. Also the ultimate has a pretty big cast time that takes the same amount of time regardless of the distance Ekko is traveling (I think). So if you are melee and against him, save your jump/gap opener for that crucial moment to avoid the damage. Remember, he is an assassin so against most melee champs (like fighters and bruisers) he should be having a tough time. If you take a melee, no CC, no gap opener champ against Ekko, you're in for a rough time; welcome to the wild world of counterpicks.

As for the passive W effect........while it is strong, I think it is fair due to the way his kit works. Without it, his damage would actually be pretty low. (DID HE ACTUALLY JUST SAY THAT??)

Let me explain. We have already covered the fact that his ultimate damage is hardly a part of his burst, as it takes either a mis-step or INCREDIBLE positioning to use it for damage, assuming he isn't forced to use it defensively. His passive, while high damage, requires 3 hits to proc and here we go with the argument. He needs his E to close distance on his target. (one proc) The problem is he is now VERY MUCH in range of anything his opponent wants to throw at him. Well, if his opponent is backing away, he MUST use Q to hit. If he hits with one part of the Q, his total damage is 290 +40% AP. If his Q hits both parts, he gets 630+ 170% AP.

This is actually some pretty crummy damage all things considered. This is his total "burst" assuming you are able to control his ultimate. Xerath non ultimate burst is 710 (for reference, I used sweet spot W damage; since I assumed everything from Ekko would hit, it seems only fair) + 210% AP. I could grab other mages and compare, but I take it you get my point; his damage is actually considerably lower. Thus I think his W is justified in having a passive that rewards him being up close next to his enemies; it would be too strong if his abilities proced it as well.

I actually have more beef with his shield strength than I do with the passive on the W.

TheRakkunJun 14, 20151 votes

Add it to his passive but instead of all AA's have it only proc with his normal Z Drive

Passive: When autoattacking an enemy Ekko build up stacks of Z-Drive Resonance, at 3 stacks the stacks are consumed to do bonus magic damage and applying a slow aswell as giving ekko a movement speed increase, if the target is below (Whatever the % was) the magic damage is increased based upon the enemies missing health.

What he really needs is that fucking shield removed from his W, and the heal from his ult removed, fuck survivability assassins (Yeah I'm looking at you Zed Leblanc .

The LexerJun 14, 20151 votes

So his W passive is, interesting.

Who knows how much power he would lose if they removed his W passive. It's a big part of his burst yet can it be removed without hurting his entire gameplay. What I think they need to do is make it more like Zed's passive, where you cannot proc the W passive on one target multiple times within a specific duration

DolphinDingusJun 14, 20151 votes

I honestly think that they should remove the W passive, make his E's next autoattack no longer have the extra scaling AP damage, but instead give the E autoattack something like a flat 8% of missing HP damage (doesn't affect turrets).

With this, it wouldn't be that Ekko would always deal the damage (if they were below 30%), but he could still assassinate a low HP target.

Also, they should make his ult cost 100 mana, and maybe reduce the heal scaling.

jDVL20eCYsJun 14, 20152 votes

Yes delet ekko from the game. Good balance

HavenscytheJun 14, 20151 votes

True, It's basically just like Viktor's Gravity Field yet he doesn't get a passive on that.

nightshadeladJun 14, 20151 votes

Ok guys I think his ult damage should be completely removed bc if you remember his passive any damaging spelll applies a stack of his passive and usually if you are fighitng him he'll try to e q then his passive will trigger he'll place w try to stun if he does stun you then he'll get to apply like 2 more hits then bam he ults applies the last stack with that and does a ton of burst because he just applied his passive with his ult while his q and e was on cd.** If his ult damage his removed it will take away a ton of his burst of course and when he fights you because he can't apply his passive the second time as fast. As for the healing I think ignite and item 3165 passive should stay on him during AND after he ults cutting his healing in half.**

UPfreelyJun 14, 20151 votes

but my freelo ekko support

SoMNiaJun 14, 20151 votes

I don't know if you've noticed, but it's just as much of a challenge to play AS him. And yes, he does need this execute, because it's enough of a chore for him to get an enemy into health range for that passive to even apply. It's the only thing that allows him to "seal the deal" and properly rewards him for surviving the ins and outs of an extended fight. He's not really an assassin, but a skirmisher.

DaedricTerror13Sep 9, 20151 votes

Play aatrox then speak about challenges.

ErockandrollJun 14, 20151 votes

I'd probably remove damage from other sources in stead. His ability to execute low health targets is inherintly fine. though he probably get said damage too easily when paired with his other abilities.

And that's his problem, none of his Abilities are actually OP until you put them all together.

I'd probably target his base damage as well, considering he gets a lot of mileage from Tank, and high CDR builds, with Maybe Luden's and Lichbane as his core damage items.

IcyPepperSep 9, 20151 votes