Yep, That's it, i finally dont have any point left to argue that the balancing team does know what they're doing. They're complete horseshit to me after i read this. you dont learn anything from your mistakes and just continue with them.
RiotRiot Scruffy13 votesThis is actually something that we found was necessary for her to be able to compete with the tanky fighters in the top lane or team fights.
Being a squishy melee carry that cant just blow up the enemy adc like Zed or other assassins is tough. Letting her skirt around the edges of the fight and deal hit and run damage to the enemy fighters/tanks is an essential part of her viability.
SomethingUnknown2 votesThis is actually something that we found was necessary for her to be able to compete with the tanky fighters in the top lane or team fights.
Being a squishy melee carry that cant just blow up the enemy adc like Zed or other assassins is tough. Letting her skirt around the edges of the fight and deal hit and run damage to the enemy fighters/tanks is an essential part of her viability.
How does her passive work? Is it random, with a specific pattern or something like Draven's axes where the weak spot changes based on where Fiora moves?
Maokawaii1 votesI, too, would like to know this. Does it follow the champion's position? (i.e., they're facing Fiora, the weak point is on their front, they turn away from her; is it still on their front or behind them, towards Fiora?)
RiotRiot Scruffy5 votesThe passive stays locked in the direction no matter what. If the enemy turns or changes facing, it won't affect the passive.
Masalar1 votesIs there, or do you think there should be (or did you try) some sort of reward for the opponent causing Fiora to miss the mark? It looks as if, if she attacks wrong, it just stays there until she succeeds or it wears off. It seems like, with all the ways she has to get at the mark (like her q) that if she hits wrong, it should go on CD possibly.
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesI dunno... this gets too complicated.
Should Vayne be penalized when she doesn't hit her third auto of silver bolts?
Masalar1 votesThere's no gameplay there. She gets 3 marks or she doesn't. Your only option is to outrange it. Fiora AND her opponent can't make plays around her passive, but for what it seems to do damage wise, the opponent, especially melee, seem to be at a severe disadvantage. If they DO succeed in making her miss her passive...she just autos again and gets it.
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesWow, I totally disagree. She has to position on the correct side to get the passive. That's totally unique compared to other passives in the game. I think it's quite cool. Have you played with it yet? Seems like a snap judgement before you even interact with it.
Masalar1 votesI have played her (admittedly against AI, only way to make sure I got her, and also admittedly after I typed all that) and I stand by it, albeit for slightly different reasons which may be enough to make me wrong.
It feels like it could be very snowbally in terms of lane dominance. If she gets ahead, unless the mark is behind you, she has a good shot at hitting it. (It IS harder to hit than I thought, but not so hard as to be pointless) And hitting it once can be enough to win a trade, because she also has her abilities AND the mark will be back soon, Don't forget proccing the mark heals her too (a small amount, but still a heal).
I just fear that, if someone gets behind against new FIora, they have no real recourse against her passive except blind luck or not farming unless under tower.
On the other hand, a Fiora that falls behind will have a hard time even proccing the obvios one in their front, out of fear that it start a fight she loses. And if that's the case, I suppose punishing her farther for then not hitting her passive may be cruel.
I was thinking that it would be interesting if autoing the wrong place just triggered it's 2-3 second location change. But then I realized that could be exploited to get the mark to a more profitable location. I still feel like the enemy should be rewarded if they "dodge" fiora's passive, like with Cass's ult, but i'm not sure of a good way to do it. :-/
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesFair enough. It sounds like you're a little more warm on the idea... Am I imagining that?
I can see it going both ways, either OP or seriously hard to do, but to me, the numbers should be a good lever to eventually balance it. I like the concept, and it seems like numbers tuning is all it needs. It's hard for her to be more feast or famine than she already was, after all.
Masalar1 votesWarm to what idea? Leaving it as it is? I mean, sure, I like the idea of it. But a big part of my idea for the addition is that, when I imagine the scenario it goes like this: "Fiora calls out where on her foe she's going to strike, giving forth her challenge! And she misses! Or the opponent jukes! And so she just keeps attacking or moving until eventually maybe she hits or not it doesn't really matter." It feels like a duel is a 1v1 battle to see who is better at whatever. But this 'duel' is 90% on Fiora's side, 10% her opponent's, and it seems it could do more to reward or at least engage her opponents. I mean, it's a DUEL.
Anyway, it's not like her new passive is bad or anything, it just seems incomplete to me. And if no changes are made to it, it's not as if I'm going to view her as ruined or anything. I just think it's an opportunity for more to be done. Maybe. I can certainly why, from a gameplay point of view it can't be that way. And I'm fine with that.
McAllister2 votesWell said, thank you. Without true/%Max damage, she'd either have enough damage to blow up any squishy, or have so little damage that tanks ignore her. Limited amounts of true/%Max damage are good to work into peoples' kits to preserve the balance.
AMYS GRAVE8 votesWhy % Max HP true damage?
Why not % Max HP physical damage?
Why not % Missing HP true damage?
Why not % Current HP true damage?
How is it going to feel playing as a tank against her?
Elkington2 votesI play Mundo and Trundle and I must say, I'm not looking forward to dealing with this. I know Riot doesn't care about Dominion and Twisted Treeline, but on those maps Fiora is about to become a god.
Hellioning8 votesBut she won't be a squishy melee. Why bother building damage when you can build tanky, use your ult as an AoE heal, and still deal a bunch of %health true damage?
Titanium702 votesExactly! There is no reason to be squishy with such a Kit and 
. Fiora will just delete Tanks while being a pain in the *** for carrys:
And btw: trueDMG on AA´s, a situational Stun, a resetting Capcloser On-Hit Q, a healing ultimate, an AS steroid - I just have to mention it: every single Part of Fiora reminds me of Irelia! She´s basicly 2.0 or 0.5 Version depending on her actuall stats!
Crett1 votesExactly! There is no reason to be squishy with such a Kit and
And btw: trueDMG on AA´s, a situational Stun, a resetting Capcloser On-Hit Q, a healing ultimate, an AS steroid - I just have to mention it: every single Part of Fiora reminds me of Irelia! She´s basicly 2.0 or 0.5 Version depending on her actuall stats!
She's a bit fundamentally different, and a lot less binary
Crett1 votesBut she won't be a squishy melee. Why bother building damage when you can build tanky, use your ult as an AoE heal, and still deal a bunch of %health true damage?
it's just 3% if you don't build AD. The ult heal scales with AD as well.
Hellioning1 votes3% per hit is actually better than a max level silver bolts, which is 8% for three hits. True, Vayne has a base true damage attached to that and has an easier time applying stacks, but still.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesbut she cant proc those hits as often so she will still do less
even if she would build tanky and proc every single one ... she would prolly still do much less than a tank
Nefas8 votesThis is actually something that we found was necessary for her to be able to compete with the tanky fighters in the top lane or team fights.
Being a squishy melee carry that cant just blow up the enemy adc like Zed or other assassins is tough. Letting her skirt around the edges of the fight and deal hit and run damage to the enemy fighters/tanks is an essential part of her viability.
Honestly I think that is terrible logic. Those fighters/tanks are meant to be the counter to a melee carry - able to lock down and survive while teammates kill the carry. Why does she have to be in top lane? Because that's where she used to be played? Why shouldn't she be played in mid lane like melee carries like Yasuo?
AMYS GRAVE1 votesWhy does she have to be in top lane? Because that's where she used to be played? Why shouldn't she be played in mid lane like melee carries like Yasuo?
Good point.
Decrit2 votesThing is... are they meant to counter them? As far as i know the job of a tank is to scale in fight duration and close the gap on squishies, aka marksmans, and outlive the burst of assassins to stomp them. However melee carries are focused on lasting damage, so in a fight between a tank and a melee carry the latter should wreck it up.
I just tested that earlier, i was hecarim against a fiora. I was fed, however since her kit was build around dueling and mine, as bruiser/tank, was centered around team utility too ( ccs and engage ) she outdamaged me by a whole lot. And that makes sense.
Thing is - she should need that for doing her job properly? Probably yes because she gets focused and needs an edge against them, but that is the opposite question you are saying now.
Nefas2 votesWhat is the difference between an assassin and a melee carry? I'm honestly asking. It isn't the amount of time it takes for them to kill you. Melee carries are not focused on lasting damage. Fights against Yi are over brutally quick either way. It isn't how squishy/tanky they are. Both pretty much build full damage. The biggest difference I suppose you could claim is that melee carries more often have to run through the opposing team while assassins can slip in. But that just makes melee carries worse assassins. Maybe it is how many people they can kill? But that is somewhat suspect as well. Fizz doesn't need his ult to kill you. Others like Kata get resets just like Yi. I don't see that much of a difference between 'melee carries' and assassins. Tanks are supposed to be able to lock down anyone trying to get to the carries in the back line - that means assassins and 'melee carries' equally.
Decrit1 votesSee, the problem is that there are melee carries that can be built assassins, and rarely vice-versa, so it' s more a matter of skill pattern that actual result.
What makes a melee carry to me? Basically what does a marksman, but melee ( this implying the need of mobility/cc/damage mitigation or wathever). If you pick a yi, as you said, fight do not usually last a lot and you are right... but if you see his kit, you actually see that he has a kit for prolonged fights, with effects on hit and attack speed. Yeah he has a nuke too, and that allows an assassin playstyle, but even in the case he still is an hybrid with his ulti and pasisve and e promoting longer fights. Old fiora too, where his burst is double tapping lounge, while compared to a zed or a talon the pattern changes drastically.
If posed in a duel situation against a tank, a melee carry does the same job as a ranged carry only without the need to stay out of range, killing one of the possible ways the tank could get the upper hand on the carry, and outdamage the tank.
Obviously this is idealistic and may vary greatly between character and character.
SnugglePuggle943 votesShe can still compete with them, just don't give her that! We don't need another fed champ that deals insane true damage. Vayne and Cho are enough already.
Jubilee Phoenix3 votesI just have one question. what's stopping her from just going full tank?
lightdragoon882 votesLow damage while being even less tanky then a normal tank would of been.
YossarianSensei3 votesBut I don't understand why she would even need to compete with tanky fighters
Her kit seems like that of a tanky fighter now, which doesn't feel like Fiora at all. The Grand Dualist must certainly have better things to do than sit around on the front lines getting shot at.
AMYS GRAVE1 votesIf you want her to be able to fight tanks then why not have her damage scale with target armor? Why is that not a valid design choice?
Kikirino6 votesOn her ult... for a max of 4 attacks.
People whine for no fucking reason before they even comprehend what they are whining about.
Drunken Yasuo3 votesOn her ult... for a max of 4 attacks.
People whine for no fucking reason before they even comprehend what they are whining about.
and even if its just 1 attack
Vistha Kai1 votesYou can.
Just slow her.
Phife2 votesWhat happens when you cast a spell and she stuns you for it?
or when she uses Q to get in range?
or when she procs her passive for MS?
or when she ults you and you're the one being slowed?
Vistha Kai1 votesIf she parries any hard crowd control abilities, Riposte stuns instead of slows.
2, Her ult doesn't slow.
Phife1 votesher ult puts 4 weakness spots that allow you to deal damage / slow / and gain MS
Vistha Kai1 votes**Passive: Duelist’s Dance **
Fiora identifies the weak spots - or vitals - in the defenses of all enemy champions she comes close to. If she manages to attack her enemy’s weak spot, Fiora deals extra true damage for that attack while gaining a small heal and short boost of speed. Fiora reveals a new weak spot whenever she attacks one, or when a moderate period of time passes without it being attacked.** R: Grand Challenge **
Fiora targets an enemy champion, gaining speed and full knowledge of their vitals. Each time she destroys a weak spot, she deals percent max health true damage. If she’s able to destroy all four weak spots, or if she destroys at least one before her target dies, Fiora creates a large and long-lasting zone under her enemy that heals Fiora and her allied champions.
I still can't see that slow.
Kikirino6 votes[{quoted}](name=Drunken Yasuo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6EUsAn9K,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-07-21T18:31:07.686+0000)
and even if its just 1 attack
- %MaxHP True Damage is toxic and you cant build against it -
You are right. Let's give her back her Zero-counterplay-untargettable-pointandclick-fuckyou ult. God forbid she get an ult that requires proper positioning and can be countered by proper positioning on your part.
Durzaka1 votesHer passive actually deals Max health % true damage as well.
Thryale3 votesthe %max hp dmg is on her ult only. Her passive is just flat true dmg.
The Öutcast3 votesher kit requires a lot more skill than the old kit, before it was a jump on your face and fly around because I'm untargetable. Now you have to position yourself properly in order to get all of your damage off. If someone is moving much faster than you, then there is no way for you to get all 4 hits on your ult.
Spicy Rice1 votesIts actually really nice imho. Its hard to pull off a good ult in a teamfight, but 8f you do, you get a free janna ult along with deleting a target.
Tldr, fiora acttually requires skill now to win a teamfight
Only Play Darius1 votes[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6EUsAn9K,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-07-21T19:24:54.226+0000)
Tldr, fiora acttually requires skill now to win a teamfight
Lol Fiora would never win teamfights to begin with.
#Splitpush4Dayz
The Öutcast2 voteswhat champ is this?
Rueian2 votesI dont get why people cry about that... i'm more terrified of the fact that you can build 100% AD with no Crit and get a free crit
BakedLotion3 votesI dont get why people cry about that... i'm more terrified of the fact that you can build 100% AD with no Crit and get a free crit
Rueian1 votesThis is probably the closest thing to her skill giving a free crit.
Only Play Darius1 votes
CosmicWaters2 votesPeople complaining acting like its a big deal true damage is a nice chunk of power but no one complains that vayne can literally destory anyone because of her passive, all you need is attack speed and vayne is unstoppable so complain about fioras new rework before any you have tried it bs
Dear Riot dont listen to them, these people are the ones that no matter who the new champ is they are "op"
