Rework Tear Of The Goddess

Rainfall··48 votes·3,009 views

item 3070 no one buys it anymore. 1.takes 6 billion years to stack 2.not rewarding enough 3.other items give you all the mana you need item 3165

98 Comments

Elsewise24 votes

item 3073 I like this version.

DJ S0NA4 votes

This is hugely better, but might break Cass, Sona, Ezreal etc. Stacks too fast. I just want it to stack at least 1.5x as fast as it is now.

Ryuyah5 votes

item 3073 stacks 1.5x faster than item 3070 (6 mana per spell vs. 4 mana per spell)

DJ S0NA1 votes

Actually it's 5 per spell cast. But it more often used (2 times every 6 seconds instead of 2 times every 8 seconds). And it grants 1 mana every 6 seconds. This is actually perfect. Nevermind what I said.

Limrick23 votes

Remove the "twice per eight seconds" limiter and we're good to go. If a Karthus wants to run himself oom to stack Tear faster, I say let him go ahead and do it.

BeAungCool11 votes

stay in base for 3 minutes and you're done with tear

Limrick23 votes

If you're gonna sit AFK for 3 minutes, I think that's a fair tradeoff.

lc02916 votes

Or change it so that you cannot stack it in base, but no cap anywhere else

DorkunedAuras3 votes

Maybe make it so that it will only stack while within 2000 units of an enemy champion (laning) or while in combat with a jungle monster (non laners).

OyddAWqJ5r12 votes

They should just add that dealing damage adds tear stacks. No compensation nerf to it, just the buff.

That way tear stackers aren't just rewarded for simply using spells but landing spells as well.

Fairyfleur2 votes

You mean, using?

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

yeah my b

HonestJohnTheCon8 votes

I'm pretty sure there are three champions buy it: Ezreal, Ryze, and Cassiopeia? (don't quote me on this one). Sure, Morell works for the latter two, but unless you're going AP Ez you don't get the benefit from Morell's AP. Maybe just rework item 3003/item 3040 ?

Rainfall9 votes

ryze is a dead champion,riot nerfed him to the ground for faker to not waste a ban on him. ezreal's playrate winrate are superbad right now in a couple of lcs games i watched they didnt even buy it on cassiopeia.

Aeszarck3 votes

{quoted}

I'm pretty sure there are three champions buy it: Ezreal, Ryze, and Cassiopeia? (don't quote me on this one). Sure, Morell works for the latter two, but unless you're going AP Ez you don't get the benefit from Morell's AP. Maybe just rework item 3003/item 3040 ?

I buy it on Karthus.

SnakDatSmilesBak2 votes

Roa better on karthus for now

Poske1 votes

actuallly morelnomicon full ap is the best

while cdr is bad on karthus first 3 abilities its good for his ulti

Imperial Japan1 votes

CDr is bad for Karthus?XD CDr is good on everyone

Poske1 votes

Yasuo

Imperial Japan1 votes

I mean - that's kinda the only exception - and It wouldn't make Yasuo worse if it didn't take up an item slot

Aeszarck4 votes

{quoted}

Roa better on karthus for now

I buy both.

Myrza3 votes

{quoted}

I'm pretty sure there are three champions buy it: Ezreal, Ryze, and Cassiopeia? (don't quote me on this one). Sure, Morell works for the latter two, but unless you're going AP Ez you don't get the benefit from Morell's AP. Maybe just rework item 3003/item 3040 ?

I buy it on Anivia as an early item (so I'm not scrambling for mana mid-late game), but I agree, it takes forever to stack, and Staff is also very expensive.

KataBenTuri2 votes

Anivia gets it too, sometimes.

Fairyfleur1 votes

Sona also builds it.

Daedric Etwahl2 votes

I don't think it's a very common buy, but yeah I do tend to grab a Tear in my Sona builds, and I sit on it for a while to facilitate my mana costs.

R0XTAR2 votes

{quoted}

I'm pretty sure there are three champions buy it: Ezreal, Ryze, and Cassiopeia? (don't quote me on this one). Sure, Morell works for the latter two, but unless you're going AP Ez you don't get the benefit from Morell's AP. Maybe just rework item 3003/item 3040 ?

Karthus lol

Imperial Japan1 votes

Anivia, karthus

ChaosThief8 votes

Tear of the goddess and its upgrades were mostly intended for late game reward. This meta heavily favors games that end sooner, meaning unless you somehow win while using a tear of the goddess, you're better off getting other items instead that give more power up front.

When the meta shifts back into late game scaling, or when champions actually have absurd mana costs and can essentially just farm up with them, you'll see them return. Tear, Archangels, and Manamune aren't bad items; they're outclassed by other items that give more earlier.

NineTailedMystic5 votes

Tear stacking just isn't good on most champions. When late game metas come again, you'll still only see a couple champs use it.

ChaosThief1 votes

It's still a niche item in the end. Only champions with absurd mana costs and a need for late game scaling use archangels (ryze, karthus, cass) and manamune is even more niche and only really used on ezreal.

Not every item has to be required to build, and that's probably how tear should stay. If everyone builds it then the only reason you would really have to back is when you run low on health.

Anu3isII1 votes

No offence man, but if an item is built on only one champion, and the champion is balanced around building that item, then the item needs to be changed.

It just cripples the build of that said champion, as old Vik Hexcores did: it doesn't really enchant that much the kit of the champion, it just increases the stats.

ChaosThief1 votes

No offense taken. I'm just against the idea of reworking the tear line into a more early game oriented item line, because that would either result in a much weaker tear item line, or an item that practically every champion can build because why not massive stat boosts.

Anu3isII1 votes

I like the Tear line as a Late Game oriented item. But, as it is right now, I don't really know if it is worth the gold to do that.

Morello, the most universal Mana Mage item, tends to be built over Archangel, even on those who can stack Tear in no time.

The other Mage items are extremely powerful in the mid game, and they don't really fall-off.

Manamune, as we both agree, is consistently built only on Ezreal.

I would personally buff the rewards for stacking it, as the Tear items don't feel as impactful as they should be (just my opinion).

junglerboy166 votes

The biggest issue is that champs that could use it well (spammable abilities and/or high mana usage/scalings) are fewer than ever. It used to be core (or at least an acceptably common item) on Anivia Cassiopeia Ezreal Jayce Karthus Kassadin Khazix Lissandra Nidalee Ryze Singed Urgot Varus Yorick Zilean, and probably more I'm not remembering, but now maybe a quarter of those still use it effectively, and even fewer use it regularly.

Half of that is due to champ reworks (e.g. Kha doesn't build it anymore because changes to W that pushed him out of lane, and Urgot no longer has spammable single target nukes to capitalize on), and half is because it is purely outclassed by similar items with superior effects (item 3027 offers more mage durability and faster completion, item 3508 offers easier mana sustain and better damage, etc.)

To make tear useful again they have to make stacking based on something other than spell casts, or have stronger completed items to make up for the sacrifice in power that is made by taking a tear item. Then just nerf Ryze as necessary to avoid breaking him.

Fairyfleur1 votes

Wait, Kha'zix used it? I've never played him so I might have not experienced mana issues, but hat seems very odd.

junglerboy161 votes

It was a core rush item on him early on in his existence when W dealt some serious damage (it used to apply his passive when evolved) and he was geared more towards a laning team fight assassin, similar to Akali or Katarina.

He was super mana hungry because of W, but Q was low cooldown and low mana cost so he could stack tear quickly, and then applied the bonus damage on his Q and had massive mana reserves to poke with W constantly.

This is all back in season 3 and 4 though, and hasn't been that way since.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

The biggest issue is that champs that could use it well (spammable abilities and/or high mana usage/scalings) are fewer than ever. It used to be core (or at least an acceptably common item) on Anivia Cassiopeia Ezreal Jayce Karthus Kassadin Khazix Lissandra Nidalee Ryze Singed Urgot Varus Yorick Zilean, and probably more I'm not remembering, but now maybe a quarter of those still use it effectively, and even fewer use it regularly.

Half of that is due to champ reworks (e.g. Kha doesn't build it anymore because changes to W that pushed him out of lane, and Urgot no longer has spammable single target nukes to capitalize on), and half is because it is purely outclassed by similar items with superior effects (item 3027 offers more mage durability and faster completion, item 3508 offers easier mana sustain and better damage, etc.)

To make tear useful again they have to make stacking based on something other than spell casts, or have stronger completed items to make up for the sacrifice in power that is made by taking a tear item. Then just nerf Ryze as necessary to avoid breaking him.

Taric would build it core if it stacked faster or was stronger in tear form.

junglerboy161 votes

Yeah, I think he's one of the ones I forgot (pretty sure he used to build it a long time ago), but he can easily build either option and in theory they'd be perfect for him (Muramana for insane passive damage, Seraph's for stronger abilities, both with enough mana to spam his rotations)

The thing is they changed him so he isn't as mana draining as he used to be and he has so many better and more necessary rush items, like item 3025 item 3800 item 3050 item 3190 item 3001 item 3504, most of which take care of his mana issues pretty thoroughly.

ZephyrDrake4 votes

well, the item loses it's mana regen component even though you build it from a item 1004 it gains a "refund" mana thing that i really don't care too much about it. It takes way too long for it to stack so other than Karthus Cassiopeia Ryze Ezreal there really aren't any other champions who care enough about building it. Let's also not forget that item 3042 is just awful right now so that doesn't help matters.

The item and the items it builds into needs something else, whether it's faster stacking or better extra AP/AD per mana ratio or just slightly better base stats. Something to make the items be in a reasonable spot because right now it's an insanely niche item that doesn't provide much of a benefit

Sraeg20131 votes

It takes way too long for it to stack

I hear this soooo often.

What'd be an "acceptable" time required for stacking?

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

I hear this soooo often.

What'd be an "acceptable" time required for stacking?

that would depend on how long the game is. Some champions can stack it fairly fast but most cannot and quite frankly the items it build into aren't all that great. item 3004 is an absolute joke of an item currently and if it weren't for it's shield item 3003 would be terrible.

Sraeg20131 votes

Minimum for Manamune is ~11 minutes. Minimum for Archangel's Staff is ~6.5 minute.

While yes, Manamune is pretty bad at stacking (always was really), Archangel isn't.

It's a matter of not being a complete meta-sheep.

Some champions can stack it fairly fast but most cannot

How many cannot?

Vast majority of champions can throw their bread and butter abilities to stack Tear. Ryze used to be the worst case of an AP champion stacking Tear and he was still doing it.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

Minimum for Manamune is ~11 minutes. Minimum for Archangel's Staff is ~6.5 minute.

While yes, Manamune is pretty bad at stacking (always was really), Archangel isn't.

It's a matter of not being a complete meta-sheep.

How many cannot?

Vast majority of champions can throw their bread and butter abilities to stack Tear. Ryze used to be the worst case of an AP champion stacking Tear and he was still doing it.

"meta sheep"

sorry but no, i don't play meta champions. The only reason Archangel is even worth building is the shield aspect. If it didn't had that nobody would ever bother building it since they could just get a Deathcap and be done with it. Manamune is not worth even when fully stacked and it doesn't help that it takes so long to even reach max stacks. There s a reason why the only people who bother building tear at all are champions that can spam abilities like crazy and even then there are times that even those champions don't bother with tear. It is very obvious that tear and/or the items it builds into are lacking. You cannot compare Ryze to other champions when he actually scales with both mana and AP so even while building tear he still gets something out of it.

Sraeg20131 votes

The only reason Archangel is even worth building is the shield aspect. If it didn't had that nobody would ever bother building it since they could just get a Deathcap and be done with it.

You are constantly assuming I'm saying you should forgo one of those "mandatory" items in favour of Archangel's.

You cannot compare Ryze to other champions when he actually scales with both mana and AP so even while building tear he still gets something out of it.

When I build Archangel I can actually get past the 700 AP mark. Few champions can. Getting up to 20% increase in AP over standard builds is surely nothing.

ZephyrDrake1 votes

{quoted}

You are constantly assuming I'm saying you should forgo one of those "mandatory" items in favour of Archangel's.

When I build Archangel I can actually get past the 700 AP mark. Few champions can. Getting up to 20% increase in AP over standard builds is surely nothing.

oh wow 700 AP... yes you get a bunch of AP... and nothing else. If you really wanted to get a lot of AP once again, just get a deathcap which would make every single one of your AP items be slightly better unlike archangel that only synergizes with Morello's and RotA (which you almost always build along with tear anyways). Also were am i assuming that you are saying anyone should forgo a mandatory item for archangel? i am telling you that the only actual reason it is picked is because of the shield, if it didn't had that nobody would even bother looking at it since deathcap is a thing.

Sraeg20131 votes

Also were am i assuming that you are saying anyone should forgo a mandatory item for archangel?

You are doing it constantly. "Want more AP? Get Rabadon's!", "Want more mana? Get Morello!"

i am telling you that the only actual reason it is picked is because of the shield, if it didn't had that nobody would even bother looking at it since deathcap is a thing.

If Deathcap wasn't increasing AP by a %, nobody would even bother looking at it. If Morello wasn't restoring mana, nobody would even bother looking at it. If RoA wasn't stacking more AP/HP/mana, nobody would bother looking at it.

NineTailedMystic4 votes

I love Archangel's and Seraph's as items but holy shit sitting on the Tear is just not worth it for 99% of champions.

dont trust girls2 votes

I really like tear just for how cheap it is, in itself it's great. I can buy it for something like 700 gold total and then be able to spam all the spells I want on someone like Sona. The comparison to morello is pretty bad considering that morellos is a full item and tear is a lower tier item that that dwarves the cost of morellos. If tear had a better ad build path similar but better than manamune I could see other champions being able to use it. For example, udyr is a stance based champion that takes a ton of mana but he'll pretty much never build tear bc there's just nothing for it to build into. It's worth noting that late game having a tear on any mana hungry spellcaster will be significantly better than morellos, so long as you've upgraded the tear. The item is scaling and it works well with late game oriented champions however late game isn't really something to bank on anymore.

Imperial Japan2 votes

A lot of champions who are unpopular (Karthus for example) build it. But yeah, I think year should be adjusted with how Rito made league games a lot shorter

I Main Swain1 votes

agree except for last point. as someone who plays mages a lot i hate that morello is the only real viable and decent mana item atm

More from Gameplay

More by Rainfall