Meddler announced no big changes will be made for the remaining of the season: Malzahar screwed

iTaLenTZ·Jun 9, 2018·14 votes·8,035 views

8.12 and 8.13 will be the last patches with big changes. They will focus on stability and balance and some champs like Karma, Yasuo, Ashe, Xaya and Caitlyn that have weird interactions with the new items. I think this is a good thing but it also means Malzahar is again left out and we won't see a revert for at least next preseason.

edit: Malzahar is left in a disfunctional state because he is either unbearable in pro play or useless in soloQ and before the rework he never had that problem

38 Comments

DW DianaJun 9, 20189 votes

Yep, they gut him, nerf him, then do nothing to fix it. Looks like I wait till s9 to play my favourite champion... so sad when you consider he's the quickest fix to their biggest problem in midlane lol

Handin Out NapsJun 9, 20181 votes

Out of curiosity what is "their biggest problem in mid lane"?

DW DianaJun 9, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Handin Out Naps,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=65Tw0lAA,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-09T23:28:07.374+0000)

Out of curiosity what is "their biggest problem in mid lane"?

7 assassins having a combined 60% play rate in plat+? Most mages being non-viable outside of pro play? The midlane champion pool is a shambles and top laners are beginning to take over. They wanted to open up the map, they succeeded in destroying several champion types

Packun FlowerJun 10, 20183 votes

Everything you say is absolutely true, Assassins are wreaking havoc on the midlane right now and most mages that belong in that lane simply aren't a viable pick anymore.

I will say however that i am personally seeing a powerful shift in the Meta with Mages making their way into the botlane now that ADC dominance there has been reduced and its working out fairly well. They don't have to deal with the lvl 2 power spike insta-kill almost all assassins bring to mid lane and with a good support mages an get the farm or kills they need safely to be viable in team fights. I have witnessed many games with mages going into bot lane and though alot of people still dont understand why this shift in meta is happening and will probably flame you if you try it, it IS happening more often and for all the games I have seen it happen the mages usually do fairly well.

DW DianaJun 10, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Annie x Zoe Yuri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=65Tw0lAA,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-10T00:50:55.902+0000)

Everything you say is absolutely true, Assassins are wreaking havoc on the midlane right now and most mages that belong in that lane simply aren't a viable pick anymore.

I will say however that i am personally seeing a powerful shift in the Meta with Mages making their way into the botlane now that ADC dominance there has been reduced and its working out fairly well. They don't have to deal with the lvl 2 power spike insta-kill almost all assassins bring to mid lane and with a good support mages an get the farm or kills they need safely to be viable in team fights. I have witnessed many games with mages going into bot lane and though alot of people still dont understand why this shift in meta is happening and will probably flame you if you try it, it IS happening more often and for all the games I have seen it happen the mages usually do fairly well.

This is true; some mages are finding a home in bot lane, but malz won't. This is because his waveclear is reliant on his voidlings which are 1 shottable for an adc at any level. Maybe he could try and support, but then his mana retention without malefic visions ping and short range will screw him over. They made the changes last year to force him OUT of support and they succeeded.

Leto GTJun 10, 20181 votes

True. Assassin have it too easy in early laning phase then smash you at lvl6 at the latest, then snowball once they get that kill. It's particularly harder since jungler are weakened now. It's shouldn't be that hard to lane against them. Electrocute cough

Handin Out NapsJun 10, 20181 votes

Ah I see you meant low elo mage problems. Just had to make sure. Easy mistake.

DW DianaJun 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Handin Out Naps,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=65Tw0lAA,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2018-06-10T02:24:34.914+0000)

Ah I see you meant low elo mage problems. Just had to make sure. Easy mistake.

Guess you didn't see the plat+ bit. Riot set out to build diversity in the game, both with runes reforged, then with the lanes. On this they have failed, no more so then in mid lane. This is a problem that effects all ranks. But by all means continue to be condescending; gets your point across well without reflecting poorly on you

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Handin Out NapsJun 10, 20182 votes

Plat+ is basically just 90%plat statistics lol. Thats low elo. Sorry a lot of people find assassins more enjoyable than mages and really haven't been able to play them for the last 2 seasons. This is a problem that effects low elo. In higher elos mages are still playable and see play every game. Now if you would rather me say something along the lines of "bad player's biggest problems" let me know so I don't have to try and make it less offensive next time.

Also here take a look at a high elo players match history and show me all those scary mid lane assassins pushing mages out of mid lane and how its such a big problem. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=imaqtpie

DW DianaJun 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Handin Out Naps,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=65Tw0lAA,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-10T08:11:53.657+0000)

Plat+ is basically just 90%plat statistics lol. Thats low elo. Sorry a lot of people find assassins more enjoyable than mages and really haven't been able to play them for the last 2 seasons. This is a problem that effects low elo. In higher elos mages are still playable and see play every game. Now if you would rather me say something along the lines of "bad player's biggest problems" let me know so I don't have to try and make it less offensive next time.

Also here take a look at a high elo players match history and show me all those scary mid lane assassins pushing mages out of mid lane and how its such a big problem. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=imaqtpie

Wow, you really are arrogant aren't you. I mean I'd show respect for getting D3, but when you're think that makes you better then everyone else you kinda lose any respect it would gain you.

Anywho, thank you for sharing the op.gg. It's enlightening to see top laners already moving into midlane to counter the assassins. There are assassins playing throughout the match history, but we only get to see a couple of mages, far less then anything else, but everyones heard about taliyah jungle lol.

Not sure what your point was other then to flash the rank of a well known youtuber, but in any case, you've succeeded in proving my prediction of top laners moving mid, now lets see if I continue to be right about mages. In any case Malz, much like your point, is not relevant.

Enjoy your rank, will have taken a lot of work. Now work on your attitude. OH and look! The d3 account you're using is a Zed main! Who could have called it? "haven't been able to play them for the last 2 seasons" my ass lol

Handin Out NapsJun 10, 20181 votes

Being d3 doesnt make me better than anyone, but it sure as hell makes me better than a lot of people at THIS GAME. And no my friend the bruisers are being played bot lane, because people in high elo are trying new bot laners since adcs were nerfed.

Here is the rank 3 player on NA only playing mid lane mages http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=julien Here is the rank 6 player once again playing mostly mages. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=tclbrobinna Now lets look at the best Zed in NA, LL Stylish. Oh look he is stuck in d1 because he is trying to play an assassin. Oh look now he is spamming Cassiopeia and winning every game. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Ll+stylish How much proof do you mage mains need? How are assassins a big problem for mid lane???

Ah now you are hitting me with the "Zed main", yes I stuck through the garbage seasons and kept playing him. Thanks for noticing, I also became just as good at jungling because of how bad he was. Now im back to jungling because I need to play a good champ to get to masters.

Also just gonna let this be heard. No one in their right mind ever wants to see Malzahar strong again. Sorry bud, maybe when he has more counterplay.

DW DianaJun 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Handin Out Naps,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=65Tw0lAA,comment-id=00000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-10T11:59:29.337+0000)

Being d3 doesnt make me better than anyone, but it sure as hell makes me better than a lot of people at THIS GAME. And no my friend the bruisers are being played bot lane, because people in high elo are trying new bot laners since adcs were nerfed.

Check the games, there's a lot with top laners being played mid, though there are some going adc and support as well.

Here is the rank 3 player on NA only playing mid lane mages http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=julien Here is the rank 6 player once again playing mostly mages. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=tclbrobinna Now lets look at the best Zed in NA, LL Stylish. Oh look he is stuck in d1 because he is trying to play an assassin. Oh look now he is spamming Cassiopeia and winning every game. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Ll+stylish How much proof do you mage mains need? How are assassins a big problem for mid lane???

Cool, though you missed out Laceration (chellenger 1) and Joju (M1). Now lets look at a couple of other regions?

Highest ranked Zed players: Korea: M1 - Milizd EUW: M1 - Xxole

Meanwhile what are people who DON'T tend to play assassins playing? Hide on Bush: Yasou, Irelia, Vlad Killua fans: Zoe, Ryze, Irelia

So we have faker on 3/3 top lane viable champions, and Killua on 2/3.

Ah now you are hitting me with the "Zed main", yes I stuck through the garbage seasons and kept playing him. Thanks for noticing, I also became just as good at jungling because of how bad he was. Now im back to jungling because I need to play a good champ to get to masters.

You ARE a zed main, it's not a hit, it's an observation. I'm a malz main, why else would I care so much about him being crap? You love the champions you love, no judgement, but when you make statements about your OWN champion while omitting details from stats to support your claims, make references to peoples rank when I am to you what your are to masters (the teir you claim to be speaking with knowledge of while never having come close to reaching), and are somehow able to be condescending and arrogant towards other while admitting you have given up on Zed during a period that he is currently one of the strongest champions in midlane because you think Rengar jg is better, you CLEARLY aren't worth my time to talk to. The next comment you make seals it for me...

Also just gonna let this be heard. No one in their right mind ever wants to see Malzahar strong again. Sorry bud, maybe when he has more counterplay.

You are as ignorant of Malz as you are of basic statistical analysis. Malzahar has ALWAYS had counterplay, he just countered Zed and champions like him. Most people miss him being strong, they just also want some of his kit to be changed; none more so then those that PLAY him (which you do not). You effectively talking out of your ass, and I have nothing more to say to you.

I wish you luck in getting you masters, but suggest you try playing some mages mid seeing as they are apparently so strong... I know, it's like you should practice what you preach?

Handin Out NapsJun 10, 20181 votes

I think you need to check the games to see all the mages being played. I literally just looked through them again, mostly mid lane mages.

Also I was talking to Laceration earlier he was complaining about how bad Zed/lethality feels, and Im also sure he thinks ll stylish is better than him. And I dont want to shit on the dude, he is a cool guy and a great player but he is averaging like 30-45% kp on his Zed games. Its clear he isnt carrying.

What you see Faker doing is called expanding your champion pool. He is already amazing at all the meta mages, Irelia is straight up broken and Yasuo just showed his face at MSI of course he is playing those champs. And for the love of god stop classifying Vlad and Ryze as "top lane champs", they are both primarily played mid and both mages. You also managed to ignore that the highest mid lane mains in na are all mage mains?

And again you are talking about stuff you dont understand. I peaked d1 this season and have played with and against pro players. Ive played with Voyboy, Boxbox, Moon, TSM mithy, aphro, and countless other high elo/ pro players. Dont try and tell me I have never come close to masters lol.

Also I never really struggled against new malz as Zed, only the old one because of how tanky he got with rod. The champion just needs changes if he wants to be good.

tophitJun 10, 20181 votes

It's not even just assassins, did people not see MSI? The only consistent mage pick mid was Taliyah, and she got absolutely WRECKED by Irelia. Vladimir showed up from time to time, but that was more because Shurelya's worked really well on him.

And you know the funny thing? After MSI, Shurelya's was changed to give mana so it's no longer viable on Vladimir, and Taliyah's wave clear was killed off, with another Q nerf on the PBE. You really cannot make this up.

Zed's playrate at Plat+ (according to champion.gg) is 6.39%, the highest of all midlaners by more than 1%. This is pretty much the same with every division below that. He does not drop below 49% winrate anywhere, as the most played midlaner in the game. Lets compare this to Orianna, probably the most well known mage in the game. 2.4% playrate, 48.5% winrate. So, Zed has more than triple the playrate of Orianna, and is somehow sitting at 0.12% under a 50/50 winrate at Platinum and higher.

The highest playrate champion I would consider a traditional mage is Lux, with 3.65% (just over half the playrate of Zed), and she has a winrate of 51.25%. That's less than 1 and a half % more than Zed, who has double the playrate. And remember, this is Lux, who received a hell of a lot of buffs not long ago, one of the only mages to actually receive them.

TheCodeisCupCakeJun 9, 20189 votes

Id rather not see Malza or Lissandra's, You can downvote me but they are just not fun to go against

DW DianaJun 9, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Id rather not see Malza or Lissandra's, You can downvote me but they are just not fun to go against

I won't downvote, and their kits need work, but I'd also say we all have champions we don't want to play against, that's why we have a ban.

NenthosJun 10, 20181 votes

Then just ban Malz or liss every game? Downvoted btw, your not very fun either.

TheCodeisCupCakeJun 10, 20183 votes

You can only ban one champion, And I need to ban overpowered champions not unfun ones. Thank you for your opinion though.

Downvoted btw.

Daddy AntsJun 9, 20185 votes

Skill shot ult please then we can consider giving him power elsewhere

Christ SuperstarJun 9, 20184 votes

Why was he then a very stable, and just about untouched, champion before the rework? He had FAR more offensive power than he does now - and actually took more skill.

Now he's a piece of shit champion, worth nothing. That fucking spell shield - it really needs to go.

Spank the FoxJun 10, 20183 votes

How did he take more skill then than now lmao?

His previous E was even more brainless, Q and R mechanics untouched and pressing W before R didn’t take skill pre-rework either.

VoraciousXJun 10, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Christ Superstar,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=65Tw0lAA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-06-09T21:33:10.838+0000)

Why was he then a very stable, and just about untouched, champion before the rework? He had FAR more offensive power than he does now - and actually took more skill.

Now he's a piece of shit champion, worth nothing. That fucking spell shield - it really needs to go.

It didn't take more skill to E someone and then them lose half health.

As for the overall topic, old Malz wasn't a popular champion, and he isn't in the gutter. He does need changes(and personally I think the changes could easily be small ones to fix him), but asking for an unbalanced mess of a champion isn't going to get him back and he's doing fine right now.

Giga BaboonJun 9, 20185 votes

Malzahar isn't statistically bad right now, so of course Meddler isn't going to do anything even though he feels like garbage to play, he doesn't even play the game the only thing he has to go on is the coin flip 50% winrate herp derp balanced. He literally exists to press R and stun someone because his damage is all gone and riot decided mid should only be viable for assassins and irelia, and even then his winrate isn't at the level of his old win rate. A champion with literally 0 skill expression wins 50% of his games, in a meta he's supposedly counters (like winning the vlad or zoe match ups).

What a joke. If I was repetoir I'd be ashamed of my lazy ass work but I have a semblance of shame (do recall he and riot in general said malzahar seemed to be great after his rework, the first one that is, right before they reworked him 3 more times, fucking cowards will never admit fault).

Madsin25Jun 9, 20184 votes

Disappointing. Was hoping the next big change was a runes reforged revert.

TrikzterzArmaJun 9, 20183 votes

But dude, it's just preseason!!

KyojiTakajoJun 10, 20181 votes

Small indie company btw

Crede777Jun 10, 20182 votes

They need to give control mages their wave control back.

Burst mages and assassins need less wave control but more kill potential. Control mages need to be able to out waveclear everyone else to keep them shoved and have priority for roams or invades.

KyojiTakajoJun 10, 20181 votes

They should just remove waveclear from mages and shove them into jungle :^) Oh wait.. Taliyah

UltîmaJun 10, 20182 votes

I think what Meddler meant by "big changes" is systemic changes like the jungle changes, and the recent introduction of bruiser items. Individual champion balance changes probably won't be affected.

5050BSJun 9, 20181 votes

See I read Balance changes as Champ Tweaks so we should see some good things. Nerfs of champs like Yi, Tryn etc. and Buffs to champs like Zyra, Swain, etc.

BlåbæretJun 9, 20181 votes

Does anyone but Malz mains really give a shit? The champion has been cancer in every single iteration and no one wants that shit back. Let him rot in a ditch until he gets a full rework.

Packun FlowerJun 10, 20181 votes

Midlane has been so fucked this season i don't think it will ever be in a good state for many seasons to come if ever again.

but you know what, with the mid lane in such a bad state mages have started to rotate botlane and from what i hear its working very well.

FancyKiwiJun 10, 20181 votes

Probably because they realized they need to fix this shit before worlds and don't want to fuck anything else up.

lightdragoon88Jun 10, 20181 votes

I miss playing and enjoying Malzahar. [sg-soraka]

Harden StepbackJun 10, 20181 votes

Malz is fine

I've seen him hard carry games plenty of times

PaffWasTakenJun 10, 20181 votes

As much as I enjoy Malz, I can live with the fact that a champ is left unchanged for the sake of the game's balance in other aspects. but the fact that the game has never been this bad and that it's mainly left untouched as it is? I'm genuinely starting to think that Riot hates its own game

ShablagooJun 10, 20181 votes

Till his point click ult is reworked he can't be strong or fixed.