(For Supports) Could we replace Sightstone for a Summoner Spell?

Nekusen·Dec 9, 2015·7 votes·645 views

Supports are gold starved and still required to buy , plus it's upgrades ( ) are really not worth it comparison to the other support items.

So my suggestion is, add some ward-{{summoner:2}} like summoner spell (thats the main thing) Could either:

reveal an area for a short period
lay wards
reset the cooldown of your trinket

As a secondary thing, said spell could be upgraded in the shop to give different kinds of vision/wards, though this is not necessary the main spell could be good enough as it's taking one of 2 slots.

EDIT: to clarify, im not necessarily suggesting they add the old {{summoner:2}} back exactly as it was, just that they add some vision spell to replace sightstone.

17 Comments

JbelsDec 9, 20153 votes

I don't think people would go for it. Ignite and Exhaust are too powerful in lane, and trying to win lane without them is pointless.

NekusenDec 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I don't think people would go for it. Ignite and Exhaust are too powerful in lane, and trying to win lane without them is pointless.

having vision would be prioritized by roaming heavy teams, i think this would add an actual strategic choice at the moment of choosing spells as a support. its all up to how do decide to implement it

JbelsDec 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

having vision would be prioritized by roaming heavy teams, i think this would add an actual strategic choice at the moment of choosing spells as a support. its all up to how do decide to implement it

vision can be bought. Reducing the damage dealer's damage, slowing them, and increasing damage done to them with the push of a button cannot. Also, you already have a summoner spell that gives you vision. It's called the yellow trinket, and after you don't need it anymore, it provides anti vision against the other team when you swap it out for red trinket

NekusenDec 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

vision can be bought. Reducing the damage dealer's damage, slowing them.

item 3116 item 3110 item 3022 item 3025 item 3143 , also consider there are already supports that can slow enemies so they don't cash as much from exhaust.

and increasing damage done to them with the push of a button cannot.

which spell does this? if you mean dealing damage with ignite, then you should consider that ignite is an "execute" spell, meaning it's not for supports as you are not supposed to get the kill.

Also, you already have a summoner spell that gives you vision. It's called the yellow trinket, and after you don't need it anymore, it provides anti vision against the other team when you swap it out for red trinket

trinkets and summoner spells are different things, hence the different name and classification.

JbelsDec 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

which spell does this? if you mean dealing damage with ignite, then you should consider that ignite is an "execute" spell, meaning it's not for supports as you are not supposed to get the kill.

Exhaust.

trinkets and summoner spells are different things, hence the different name and classification.

The trinket is free, it provides wards for free. Summoner spells are free. They provide different bonuses for free

NekusenDec 10, 20153 votes

{quoted}

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

is that your reaction to being proved wrong? not a very dignified one

The trinket is free, it provides wards for free. Summoner spells are free. They provide different bonuses for free

champions spells are free, therefor all champions have the same spells, therefore summoner spells, champion spells, masteries, runes and trinkets are all the same.

JbelsDec 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

is that your reaction to being proved wrong? not a very dignified one

champions spells are free, therefor all champions have the same spells, therefore summoner spells, champion spells, masteries, runes and trinkets are all the same.

no, it's my reaction to you comparing the price of an entire item build to the power of a free summoner spell.

And yeah, when you get down to it, they pretty much are. They just have different names, asthetics and effects. Some just happen to be more useful than others, but summoner spells are interchangeable. I can promise you right now, unless the new summoner spell you propose is broken or overpowered in any way, nobody will take it over sightstone and exhaust/ignite

Dar RaksadaDec 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

vision can be bought. Reducing the damage dealer's damage, slowing them, and increasing damage done to them with the push of a button cannot. Also, you already have a summoner spell that gives you vision. It's called the yellow trinket, and after you don't need it anymore, it provides anti vision against the other team when you swap it out for red trinket

vision can't be bought anymore, green wards at least.

JbelsDec 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dar Raksada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5yBziJIZ,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2015-12-10T16:02:24.532+0000)

vision can't be bought anymore, green wards at least.

No, but sightstone can, and we all get upgraded trinkets for free now

Your Real MomDec 11, 20151 votes

I agree. Taking exhaust is almost mandatory and usually says a lot about who comes out on top of a fight bot lane. If the OP is concerned about item slots, they added in the upgrade to combine sightstone with your GP10 item for that exact reason.

Miku Lv99Dec 10, 20152 votes

I think this is a great idea and I don't like being forced to get a Sigthstone every game. You could definitely win lane even without an exhaust. You know why? Because you didn't die to their gank, but they died to yours. That could easily be better than an exhaust if they have a good ganker. And it would lead to actually getting to choose items as a support instead of how it is now where it's like sightstone, a gold income item, and possibly boots before spending much money on anything else.

NekusenDec 11, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Miku Lv99,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5yBziJIZ,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-10T04:27:11.645+0000)

I think this is a great idea and I don't like being forced to get a Sigthstone every game. You could definitely win lane even without an exhaust. You know why? Because you didn't die to their gank, but they died to yours. That could easily be better than an exhaust if they have a good ganker. And it would lead to actually getting to choose items as a support instead of how it is now where it's like sightstone, a gold income item, and possibly boots before spending much money on anything else.

yup, thats the idea

KoechopheDec 10, 20152 votes

To preface, I'm a support main, primarily bard, but I also like Zilean a lot too.

First and foremost, you would have to remove sightstone completely for this to work (because having ignite/exhaust > having 800 more gold and another item slot for supports). Not necessarily a bad thing, just important to note.

The main problem is, the spell would be either good enough that I, as a support, would be required to take it, or else sub-par enough that it's basically just like CV where no one takes it ever because it's considered a troll pick. Warding is extremely powerful; if the only way to access more of it is through a summoner spell, that summoner spell becomes required on supports, and I personally don't like that. I enjoy the strategic choice between taking exhaust and taking ingite as a support, and the mind games of using each correctly (Exhaust during a fight, but don't waste it on someone who can back out easily. Time ignite well enough that you secure a kill without stealing and negate heal on a squishy target).

At the same time, I don't like that I, as a support, am responsible to buy sightstone every game. My solution would be to remove sightstone, buff the trinkets so they're actually halfway decent, and call it a day. Warding becomes a team effort because there's no alternative. But I know that will probably never happen.

Dominick DestineDec 9, 20151 votes

Clairvoyan... oh ... wait...

NekusenDec 10, 20151 votes

do you think all of what i posted is an unique build? i hope you are not building like that. your argument was "you can't buy X", i showed you that you can, your point was rendered invalid.

well, if you think everything in the game is the same, then complaining that 2 things would be the same is not a very sound argument.

NekusenDec 10, 20151 votes

why would you take ignite on a support? ignite is an execute spell, with it you run an unnecessary risk of taking the kill.

i agree about not being required to buy or use a specific thing, it's about making them balanced.

it would also add more possibilities, like with zilean support that has a slow, you could take this spell over exhaust, with healing supports, the adc could take this spell over heal, etc.

NekusenDec 11, 20151 votes

unless you have a support with cc